chronograph?

[Axis II]

sorry guys if I'm asking too many questions.

I'm 99.9% in my local private range so will have a lot of time to check my loads. I think the range has a chronograph but I'm not sure.

I want to mainly load plinking rounds and varmint rounds for 223rem.

As long as I'm checking cases for pressure signs do I necessary need a chrono?

what would be a decent $100 chrono to get?

 

[JimKirk]

With out a chronograph of some type ... you are only guessing at velocity ... there are no two guns who shoot the same load to the same exact velocity ... so you really don't have a standard to compare two different guns except by velocity .... and accuracy.

I witnessed two identical Remington Model 700 in .30/06 ... One serial number different ... shoot a fairly common match load to two very different velocities ... as much as 200 fps different...

I did own a Win 70 .25/06 with a 24" barrel ... it shot about 200 fps slower than does a Browning Abolt in .25/06 with a 22" barrel ... same load ...

 

[Brian425]

I have a comp electronics.....nice unit...

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Around $100 I like the pro chrono digital. Mine has worked welll for me so far.

The only problem i have had was due to setting the chronograph too close when using power pistol loads.

It has worked on sunny, cloudy, and partly cloudy days but i have not used it indoors with fluorescent lighting so i don't know how well it works in that lighting. Some chronographs have reported problems with fluorescents and i can see why they would. Not the best source for light for an indoor range.

As far as a chronographs ability to help with pressures they can but they are just an addition to the signs of detecting hot loads.

For instance if you see what appears to be a flat primer, the chronograph might confirm the velocity is higher than published. At the same time it confuses some if the velocity doesn't support other signs you think your seeing. That's never happened to me so other than comments made about mismatch signs i can only say that its hard to say what someone else is seeing.

Many people have gone for years without one and i just got one of my own last year. Never had a need and i don't feel i need one now i just wanted one for my own data collection.

My final opinion....no. You don't need one but you may like to have one and to me it is another tool and if you start loading rifle rounds for accuracy then you may find it more of a necessity.

 

[Reloadron]

Do you "need" a chronograph? No, not really. I think you will find the consensus is a chronograph is a nice to have tool. Today's chronographs come loaded with features so it is a matter of what features you may want or see as useful. Personally I like a chronograph that can interface to a PC or Laptop, some will interface to your smart phone (assuming you have a smart phone).

One hundred bucks gets you into something like this or similar. Then for a few bucks more we get a little more fancy (features) with the Shooting Chrony Beta Master Chronograph. They all do the same thing just some have added features that come with added cost.

My chronograph is 3 days older than dirt (Oehler 35P) which is about 25 plus years old. I like it because the display sits on the bench and it includes a printer. I can shoot a group, let the chronograph do the math, print the data and save the data sheet with my ammo in the plastic ammo box.

Anyway, a hundred bucks gets you a sweet chronograph. The chronograph threads always fill quickly and come up often so expect plenty of good dope as you decide what you want in a chronograph.

Ron

 

[joem1945]

I bought a chrono because I was loading surplus mil powder and checked FPS to make sure I wasn't overloading. Surplus powder is gone so I guess I don't really use it anymore.

 

[Brian425]

I got mine to just make sure I was making power factor for uspsa and idpa....I was amazed at how much difference there can be between pistols with only a half inch difference in barrell length!

 

[bbqreloader]

chreck out this thread. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=797729&highlight=chronograph
My outdoor range will let me chronograph, but does not supply the use of one. Bought a Caldwell, premium package, at Amazon, since I am loading 3 calibers and trying to pair down the best powders in ea. caliber.

 

[TimSr]

I went for years without one. I mainly find it useful when I'm drifted into uncharted territory of development, or using non-typical components such as various cast bullets for pistols.

If I were loading only one caliber, especially with it being a rifle caliber, I wouldn't spend the money. If you are working out of reloading books, using their components, there isn't much of a need unless knowing that you are getting 3100 fps instead of the book's 3200fps is critical to your mission. I just stayed within book ranges, and loaded for accuracy for hunting purposes.

 

[cfullgraf]

Can you load excellent, accurate, safe ammunition without a chronograph--yes.

Does a chronograph provide useful information--yes.

I've had a chronograph for about 20 years and like having them enough that I have replaced two along the way that expired from lead poisoning. It was that important for me to have one on hand.

I do not use a chronograph alot, usually only when working on a new to me cartridge or firearm or if I make a significant change in powder or bullets with a particular cartridge.

 

[Handloader109]

I bought a Prochono by competition electronics a while back to mainly check my loads for my 22tcm reloading. I've since used it to make sure that I wasn't overloading my 9mm rounds. With the free app, I can upload and easily keep. Good unit, works well outdoors.

 

[ewlyon]

If you stay within book load data a chronograph isn't necessary by any stretch, but if you are experimenting a bit or want to check your loads to get an idea of pressure then they seem to be useful. For that reason I just bought one a couple days ago which arrived today. If you decide to get one I believe Amazon and Midway are both running sales right now on the caldwell chronograph kit which includes a tripod and some other accessories. Both places have it for $99.99

 

[Bula]

If you shoot for fun and meat, not sure one is absolutely needed. I have a cheapy F1 shooting chrony. I rarely use it buts it's a nice tool to know actual fps. I mainly shoot pistol and it matters little when you want accuracy inside of 25 yards. I don't hunt either. But for the money, the knowledge is nice.

 

[Newtosavage]

I have a "challenging to load" short-barreled 7x57 Mauser. Without my $99 Chrony, I'd be completely blind. I don't go to the range without it anymore, unless I'm just playing with seating depth or adjusting a scope to a particular load I already know very well. The other day I used a published "starting load" for a new bullet weight and came up with velocities that were nearly 400 fps. slower than the published velocities. Without the chrono, I would have no idea which powders give the best performance in my length-challenged barrel.

An old timer at the range commented one day on my chrono, saying he's been loading for 40 years and never felt the need to have one. Then after a few trips he started paying attention to the numbers I was getting from mine, and his tune gradually changed.

When I explained how I could combine the numbers with the bullet's BC to estimate the trajectory and know my hold-overs for hunting, he was finally convinced it wasn't a waste of time and money.

When I showed him how a load starts to spike when it approaches max, he was really convinced and wondered how he had gotten by without one for so long.

 

[Punkinhead]

When I explained how I could combine the numbers with the bullet's BC to estimate the trajectory and know my hold-overs for hunting, he was finally convinced it wasn't a waste of time and money.

This is the piece that's been missing from the discussion. I'm working up varmint loads for a few new bullets. My local ranges are only 100 yards. By getting the velocities I'll be able to make up range cards using a ballistic program that will get me on paper out to 600 yards when I finally make the several hour drive to the nearest range that has back stops at those distances. That'll save me a lot of ammo and walking to tweak the range cards.

 

[Hondo 60]

My final opinion....no. You don't need one but you may like to have one and to me it is another tool

Then again "NEED" can be subjective.

Some people feel the "need" to own & use one.
As stated above, it's more data & can give you confirmation or warnings.

BUT

My observation:

There ain't but 2 kinds of chronograph users...
1. Them that's shot theirs
2. Them that's gonna shoot theirs.

I'll admit, I'm in the first category.
Scoped rifles are the bane of a chronograph's existence.

Currently, mine is down cuz it was shot (again)
I expect to send it in next month.

 

[spitballer]

Highly recommend a chronograph for load development, but avoid being seduced by velocity - goal should remain a rational pursuit of accuracy.

 

[MikeInOr]

I spent 20 years reloading without a chrono and developed many very accurate riffle rounds in that time.

I recently purchased a Cauldwell chrono that hooks up to my smart phone. What I found is that some of my more accurate rounds have a greater speed variance than some of my less accurate rounds.

I don't think a chrono is anywhere near a necessity for quality reloading. I do enjoy having an idea of how one round compares to another round speed wise though.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Then again "NEED" can be subjective.

Some people feel the "need" to own & use one.
As stated above, it's more data & can give you confirmation or warnings.

BUT

My observation:

There ain't but 2 kinds of chronograph users...
1. Them that's shot theirs
2. Them that's gonna shoot theirs.

I'll admit, I'm in the first category.
Scoped rifles are the bane of a chronograph's existence.

Currently, mine is down cuz it was shot (again)
I expect to send it in next month.

My goosness what cha shooting a perfectly good chrono for?....lol.


Turned my head today to talk to another guy and some idjit took my chrono box apart ant stapled it up for a target. He then drew a bullseye on it. I saw him do it but didn't realize he took my box to do it with....smh.


I was perturbed after asking him why he would do such a thing and getting a duh answer i just went to the pistol range.

 

[dragon813gt]

My observation:

There ain't but 2 kinds of chronograph users...
1. Them that's shot theirs
2. Them that's gonna shoot theirs.

I'll admit, I'm in the first category.
Scoped rifles are the bane of a chronograph's existence.

Currently, mine is down cuz it was shot (again)
I expect to send it in next month.

This is going to change in short order. If I shoot mine I'm doing something majorly wrong because it's behind the firearm, LabRadar. Prices should come down over time as the technology matures. Even after the issues I had w/ it's first outing it's head and shoulders above a conventional chrono. The days of chronos being in the line of fire is slowly coming to an end.

 

[cfullgraf]

My goosness what cha shooting a perfectly good chrono for?....lol.

My chronograph looked down range and saw me taking a bead on the poor paper target down range. It sat there quietly, watching me aim. Then it quickly jumped as the gun let off, taking a bullet so the target could live another day.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[MCMXI]

I don't know anyone who's serious about long range shooting that doesn't use a chronograph. I use a CED M2 with infrared screens. I've been using it for more than five years, haven't shot it yet and since adding the IR screens haven't lost a shot after hundreds of rounds over it.

 

[Newtosavage]

What I found is that some of my more accurate rounds have a greater speed variance than some of my less accurate rounds.

I've noticed the same thing which is why I don't really pay close attention to the SD, but instead use it for ballistics and to identify pressure spikes.

One of the best uses of my chrono in the past few months was to determine the BC of a factory load. I didn't have the BC and had no idea what the velocity and energy of a particular 7.62x39 round might be at 200 yards - a distance I knew I may want to use it for hunting. The round was plenty accurate enough, but without knowing the velocity (to estimate expansion) at that distance, I just didn't have confidence in it. So I setup the chrono just ahead of the 200 yard backstop and fired a string of about eight shots. Yes, I nearly hit the chrono with the first shot, but thankfully I didn't hit it. And fortunately for me, it recorded all eight shots, giving me great numbers for that distance.

What I learned was that the BC of that bullet was better than I thought, and it had plenty of velocity, and therefore energy and expansion potential, even at that distance. Without knowing that number for sure, I never would have had confidence in using that round at 200 yards.

 

[MCMXI]

What I found is that some of my more accurate rounds have a greater speed variance than some of my less accurate rounds.

Why not go a few steps further and figure out what might cause this? Ask yourself the following. If every bullet was identical in terms of weight, BC, center of gravity, center of pressure, concentricity, mass distribution about the axis of rotation and geometric symmetry, and if every bullet has the same muzzle velocity, would they all go through the same hole in the paper (discounting wind affects). YES THEY WOULD!! Low ES numbers should be the objective of every shooter concerned with accuracy and precision at long range, along with sorting bullets to mitigate the variations in trajectory caused by some or all of the variables I described above. Your discovery is random and hence the word "some". You have no control over the variables that are affecting accuracy more than ES values. Variables that we can control fairly easily that affect ES are neck tension, shoulder location, OAL, bullet weight, base to ogive distance and case weight/length. My 6.5 Creedmoor is consistently shooting 5-shot groups in the 0.250 moa to 0.300 moa range at 100 yards but the ES is 30 fps or worse. That doesn't bode well for 1,000 yards if my intention is to shoot 0.5 moa at that range. Yes, a chronograph is essential if you're concerned about accuracy at long range.

 

[Bart B.]

MCMXI, I've never used a chronograph to develop a long range developing loads. Just used what those shooting the best scores used. Won my share of matches and got ranked in the top 2% of all long range competitors doing so. Lots of others including those shooting better scores than I, never used a bullet velocity measuring thing; they just tried a few different charge weights then picked one. Or did what I did; use one of the popular winning loads.

I've never thought a chronograph would help everyone develop any load all that well. Especially when they don't shoot enough shots per test to be meaningful. And several people shooting the same rifle and ammo will have a 50 to 100 fps spread across their average muzzle velocity. Hand holding their rifle against their shoulder shooting off bags on a bench top will end up with 3 to 4 times the muzzle velocity ES and SD as well as a lower average velocity than a fixed barreled action has. All rifles won't shoot the same load to the same velocity numbers.

How many shots does it take to prove at any range that load A is 1/10th MOA more accurate than load B with at least a 90% level of confidence?

Lots of rifles have shot well under 1 MOA at 1000 yards with a 50 fps spread in muzzle velocity. The bullets left the muzzle axis when it's angle above the LOS was right for their respective bullet drops; higher angles for slower bullets. That's what tuners on rifle barrels at the muzzle end do. Works with .22 rimfire match rifles at short range, too. All bullets do not leave at the exact same angle relative to the LOS. As long as they leave on the muzzle up swing, velocity spreads and bullet drops compensated for.