Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

civilian .223 - What is closest to M193?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by goon, May 4, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. goon

    goon Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Messages:
    7,251
    Are there any commercial loads that are roughly comparable to M193? I have been reading that when the 55 grain bullet from this load hits it is known to penetrate a short distance then turn sideways and sort of tear apart at the crimp cannelure. Do the 55 grain FMJ loads from Winchester and Federal act the same way?

    BTW - I have looked around a little on AR-15.com but I don't have a payed email account so I can't register over there to ask my questions.
     
  2. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Messages:
    2,213
    Location:
    FLORIDA
    Winchester Q3131
     
  3. heypete

    heypete Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    967
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Well, you can always get Federal XM193, which is literally the same stuff that they issue to troops. Well, the "X" denotes some minor out-of-mil-spec thing (or so I've been told) like primers not having the sealant properly applied and so forth. Not a big deal for civilian shooters, but for a military who doesn't know where the ammo will end up, how it'll be stored, or how long it'll be there, it's a bit more important.

    XM193 is made in the Lake City plant for the military by Federal, and Federal sells a bunch of it to the civilian market. Great stuff, good brass for reloading, and runs a bit hotter than normal .223.

    Winchester Q3131 (USA made) and Q3131A (Israeli made) are both excellent cartridges, and are -- to the best of my knowledge -- made to the same spec.

    That said, if you're looking for two-legged critter stopping power, having a controlled-expansion round like Hornady TAP, Black Hills ammo, or one of the variety of softpoints on the market may give you more consistent and reliable results.

    For paper punching, there's a wide range of inexpensive plinking ammo made both here and abroad.
     
  4. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    9,773
    Location:
    Illinois`
    Just remember every bullet performs differently in different mediums at different temperatures and different velocities.
    They are supposed to perform that way under perfect conditions.
    Most never perform exactly as planned.

    One big plus I have found with the civilian offerings over military is they are held to tighter standards and provide better overall accuracy and consistancy in velocity.
    This comparison is for standard ammunition not Match specification ammunition.
     
  5. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    20,555
    Location:
    Norra Texas
    Minor thread hijack - I didn't think that we were issuing M193 anymore.... ????
     
  6. P0832177

    P0832177 member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2003
    Messages:
    896
    Location:
    Mpls.,MN
    I am sure that you do not need to pay at AR15.com to register and thus ask questions.

    But, right now there is a "shortage" of first run ammo. What Federal is selling is essentially second tier ammo.
    XM193 boxed and XM193PD bulk packed.
     
  7. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    14,613
    Location:
    Texas
    XM193PD is not the same quality ammo as XM193, although it comes from the same place. There is a reason XM193PD is labeled "For Training Purposes Only".

    Both Winchester Q3131, Q3131A and Federal XM193 are reported to be the equivalent of M193 ammo in ballistic and terminal performance. Howeve, you might read the Ammo Oracle to learn more about that performance... even M193 fails to yaw as often as 25% of the time.
     
  8. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    As Bartholomew says, Get thee to the Oracle.....

    Ammo Oracle
     
  9. asknight

    asknight Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    1,298
    P0832177, you don't have to pay for an ar15.com account, but you have to have a paid email account, such as that from your ISP. You can't register with an anonymous account such as those from free email providers. Hotmail, Yahoo, GMail, just to name a few.
     
  10. goon

    goon Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Messages:
    7,251
    Yep.
    Since I generally post either from a public library or from someone else's computer I don't have an ISP.
    That is just how it is until I move and get my computer set back up again next month.
     
  11. dmckean44

    dmckean44 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    235
    It was my understanding those that are issued regular M16s are still issued M193.
     
  12. mnblaster

    mnblaster Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    minnesota
    Ar15.com is a poor choice for reference. There are many sites including this one where you don't have to wade through the wanna-be's guesses. Many times rifle manufacturers are aware of types of ammo and how closely they compare to the ammo in the field.
     
  13. mustanger98

    mustanger98 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2004
    Messages:
    2,986
    Location:
    Union County, GA, CSA
    This is just be, but when I shoot M193 ball, it's Sellier&Bellot and it says M193 on the light blue box. I haven't shot Winchester's and Federal's offering to know what they'll do. I've only shot S&B's M193 on paper and busting clays on the 100yd berm so I don't really know that I'd trust it to perform in tissue as they say M193 is supposed to.
     
  14. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    3,454
    Location:
    Terra
    I believe the M193 is issued only to support and rear echelon troops (mostly reserve and NG units) that still have the very old, original M16s with 1:14 or 1:12 barrels. They must shoot the 55gr loads because the M855 62gr bullets out of those very slow barrels isn't accurate beyond about 50 meters.

    Pretty much everyone gets M855 -- or one of the newer, heavier rounds if their rifles have the 1:7 barrels to handle it.
     
  15. chopinbloc

    chopinbloc Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    2,242
    Location:
    sweet home arizona
    m855 is the current standard. a couple years ago there was some m193 still being used for training but i haven't seen it since. i only saw two m16a1s during a year in afghanistan and those were with airforce troops. i do not believe that the army (even guard and reserve troops) has deployed ANY a1s to combat in years, likewise for the marine corps. it is true that m855 should not be fired through an a1's 1:12" barrel except in a combat emergency because the heavier (62gr vs. 55gr) bullet is not sufficiently stabilized by such a slow rate of twist. this is also the reason that the army does not deploy these old rifles to combat areas - if a soldier depleted his basic load, he could not continue to fight with scrounged ammunition. regardless of whether a troop is issued an m16a2, m4 or m249 SAW he is issued m855 ammunition. there was one case where i met a soldier (tx guard infantry) who had been issued what appeared to be ss109 (same spec as m855) from a foreign manufacturer - i have no idea why he had it. i also spoke with some sf troops who had the newish 77gr black hills load for their special purpose rifles. bottom line: 99.9% are issued m855.

    as for the original topic, if you want ammunition that performs as well or better than m193 in tissue, most softpoints will do fairly well and even most fmj assuming they have an open base, fairly thin jacket and a cannelure. both types need healthy velocity though softpoint will usually work at a lower velocity. many criticize some of the "tactical" loads as being poor penetrating varmint rounds. i use one magazine of federal american eagle 50gr hp for home defense even though it is a shallow penetrator because i live in an apartment. all my other mags are kept full of m855. if you want a load that will perform on paper as close as possible to m193, it's just gonna take some experimentation on your part.
     
  16. army_eod

    army_eod Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    61
    New Wolf brass cased M193 NATO. I will let you know in a few days how it works in my Rock River carbine. I can tell you that my carbine really likes the M855 green tip. It is about as accurate with it as with BH 68 gr match. As someone said, each rifle will have its own personality and shoot certain loads better than others.

    www.ar15.com has lots of ammo info. The Wolf brass case ammo is made in Serbia.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page