Clarification of Hawaii law

[HIcarry]

This is in response to a post originating in the Strategies and Tactics forum, which was closed so I couldn't respond to there. Mods, feel free to move this as necessary. I am only posting this to clarify what I believe to have been an incorrect statement about the relative ease of brininging firearms into Hawaii, especially if you are a tourist versus someone relocating to Hawaii. I only mention this because I would hate to have someone get into trouble trying to bring a firearm into Hawaii while on vacation here.

The statement I believe to be wrong was:

Importing guns into Hawaii isn't a very big deal. I do it every time I travel there to visit my parents (usually twice a year).

You are supposed to register handguns with the local police, but you have a 30 day grace period and while I do love my parents I don't spend a month visiting them.

Per HRS:

§134-3 Registration, mandatory, exceptions. (a) Every person arriving in the State who brings or by any other manner causes to be brought into the State a firearm of any description, whether usable or unusable, serviceable or unserviceable, modern or antique, shall register the firearm within three days after arrival of the person or of the firearm, whichever arrives later, with the chief of police of the county of the person's place of business or, if there is no place of business, the person's residence or, if there is neither a place of business nor residence, the person's place of sojourn. A nonresident alien may bring firearms not otherwise prohibited by law into the State for a continuous period not to exceed ninety days; provided that the person meets the registration requirement of this section and the person possesses:
1. (1) A valid Hawaii hunting license procured under chapter 183D, part II, or a commercial or private shooting preserve permit issued pursuant to section 183D-34;
(2) A written document indicating the person has been invited to the State to shoot on private land; or
(3) Written notification from a firing range or target shooting business indicating that the person will actually engage in target shooting.
The nonresident alien shall be limited to a nontransferable registration of not more than ten firearms for the purpose of the above activities.

Please note that there is no provision for bringing a firearm into the State for anything other than hunting or organized "target" shooting and to qualify to register a firearm for those purposes you must have a valid Hawaii hunting license or a letter from the organizer of the shooting event you are to participate in. There is no provision for self-defense purposes for the duration of your visit here and that possession of an unregistered firearm is a felony.

Also mentioned in the same posting was a comment from a law enforcement officer. It was unclear if he was retired or active duty. Regardless, he mentioned the fact that under The Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act, HR-218, he was authorized to concealed carry his firearm in all 50 States. I am not an expert, nor a lawyer, but HRS only allows active duty officers on official assignment, whose agency has a compact with Hawaii, to carry concealed.

§134-11 Exemptions. (a) Sections 134-7 to 134-9 and 134-21 to 134-27, except section 134-7(f), shall not apply:
1. (1) To state and county law enforcement officers; provided that such persons are not convicted of an offense involving abuse of a family or household member under section 709-906;
(2) To members of the armed forces of the State and of the United States and mail carriers while in the performance of their respective duties if those duties require them to be armed;
(3) To regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive the weapons from the United States or from the State; provided the members are either at, or going to or from, their places of assembly or target practice;
(4) To persons employed by the State, or subdivisions thereof, or the United States while in the performance of their respective duties or while going to and from their respective places of duty if those duties require them to be armed;
(5) To aliens employed by the State, or subdivisions thereof, or the United States while in the performance of their respective duties or while going to and from their respective places of duty if those duties require them to be armed; and
(6) To police officers on official assignment in Hawaii from any state which by compact permits police officers from Hawaii while on official assignment in that state to carry firearms without registration. The governor of the State or the governor's duly authorized representative may enter into compacts with other states to carry out this paragraph.
(b) Sections 134-2 and 134-3 shall not apply to such firearms or ammunition that are a part of the official equipment of any federal agency.
(c) Sections 134-8, 134-9, and 134-21 to 134-27, shall not apply to the possession, transportation, or use, with blank cartridges, of any firearm or explosive solely as props for motion picture film or television program production when authorized by the chief of police of the appropriate county pursuant to section 134-2.5 and not in violation of federal law. [L 1988, c 275, pt of §2 and am c 272, §2; am L 1989, c 211, §10; am L 1990, c 281, §11; am L 1996, c 60, §§1, 2; am L 1999, c 202, §1 and c 297, §2; am L 2006, c 66, §4]

If retired, the process of obtaining a concealed carry permit under 18 U.S.C. Ch. 926C, has only just recently been formalized and is quite onerous and expensive. It has been criticizedby some of Hawaii's retired LEOs. The link to Hawaii's AG explaining the process is:

http://hawaii.gov/ag/LEO/

 

[musher]

Your interpretation of the law turns on the definition of nonresident alien. Typically, I believe this refers to folks who are not US citizens and do not reside in the state.

Also, HR218 trumps the state statute and allows active and retired police officers to carry under its provisions.


Edited to add, it appears that nonresident aliens are those who are not US citizens and do not live in the US or who are in the US under a nonresident visa.

 

[HIcarry]

Your interpretation of the law turns on the definition of nonresident alien. Typically, I believe this refers to folks who are not US citizens and do not reside in the state.

Also, HR218 trumps the state statute and allows active and retired police officers to carry under its provisions.


Edited to add, it appears that nonresident aliens are those who are not US citizens and do not live in the US or who are in the US under a nonresident visa.

Musher,
You may be correct about the definition of the non-resident alien. However, since the remaining provisions of the statue imposes further restrictions (ie. a valid hunting license or documentation from the organizer of a shooting event; requiring "every person" to register a gun brought into the State within 3 days) the issue of bringing a firearm in as a tourist is still cloudy and certainly does not include a 30 day grace period. As I mentioned, I am not an expert or a lawyer. My intent was to inform anyone considering bring a gun into Hawaii that the process is not as easy or clear as it might be in other, more "gun friendly" states.
As far as HR218, I am again not an expert, but the wording of the Bill includes the following:

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

Until very recently Hawaii had not developed the guidelines required to allow retired LEOs the ability to carry concealed (and hence did not permit even our own retired LEOs to carry concealed, let alone those from other agencies...) and even now, the process seems overly arduous and requires an annual firearms certification at a cost of $495.00 (that's per year) in order to maintain the permit.
As I understand it, HR218 does not automatically entitle any and all LEOs (retired or active)the ability to carry in any state. Rather it requires states to adopt a process whereas qualified retired LEOs can aquire a permit to carry concealed "[n]otwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State."
Please understand that I am not defending the State's interpretation of various firearms laws, just pointing out Hawaii is not very firearms friendly and that if you choose to bring a gun into the State that you need to be very sure of the applicable laws and/or their interpretation.

 

[Nikdfish]

As I understand it, HR218 does not automatically entitle any and all LEOs (retired or active)the ability to carry in any state. Rather it requires states to adopt a process whereas qualified retired LEOs can aquire a permit to carry concealed "[n]otwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State."

No, I'm sorry but you are wrong. Possession of the proper ID & proof of having qualified within the preceeding 12 months, with the type (auto or revolver) of weapon to be carried, under the requirements of their home state is all a LEOSA covered retired LEO needs in any US state or territory. A covered active duty LEO only needs his work ID & to have met the in-service qualification requirements within the preceeding 12 months. That's what the law states, very clearly.

Hawaii may make it difficult for their own retired LEOS to meet the qualification requirement, but that only affects their citizens - it has no impact on retirees from other states. Active duty Hawaiian LEOS could only be handicapped by policy ... no state law could prevent them from off duty carry.

Nick

 

[Albatross]

Since I made the initial statement I should mention my source which came from a phone conversation with a police officer (I called the police station in Kona). He told me a one month (30 day) grace period.

It wasn't just any random officer, they transfered me to him and he was apparently their firearms expert.

/This was in 2002.

 

[HIcarry]

No, I'm sorry but you are wrong. Possession of the proper ID & proof of having qualified within the preceeding 12 months, with the type (auto or revolver) of weapon to be carried, under the requirements of their home state is all a LEOSA covered retired LEO needs in any US state or territory. A covered active duty LEO only needs his work ID & to have met the in-service qualification requirements within the preceeding 12 months. That's what the law states, very clearly.

Hawaii may make it difficult for their own retired LEOS to meet the qualification requirement, but that only affects their citizens - it has no impact on retirees from other states. Active duty Hawaiian LEOS could only be handicapped by policy ... no state law could prevent them from off duty carry.

You may be correct. All I can do is relate what LEOs I work with say (IANAL and I am not an LEO...but I have worked closely with them for over 20 years) and what they have been instructed to do with LEOs here who are not on official assignment - which is not to allow concealed carry. As I mentioned, I do not condone the state of affairs here in regards to firearms law, (some here feel that if some of the restrictive legislation of the 1980s had not been defeated we would have had laws at least as restrictive as DC or Chicago)or the apparent disregard of Federal statues. And, I mean no disrespect when I say that if you are confident in your interpretation of HR215 and your ability to carry concealed here while not on official duty, then to go ahead and do so. But, don't be surprised if you receive some unwanted attention by Honolulu's finest. Good luck and aloha.

 

[musher]

HIcarry,

Assuming the punctuation of the statute you quoted is correct, I think if you parse the first section it will become apparent that the conditions (1),(2),or (3) apply only to nonresident aliens, not to other persons who bring firearms into the state.

I do agree that the registration requirement is 3 days not 30, for anyone who transports a firearm into HI.

 

[HIcarry]

Since I made the initial statement I should mention my source which came from a phone conversation with a police officer (I called the police station in Kona). He told me a one month (30 day) grace period.

It wasn't just any random officer, they transfered me to him and he was apparently their firearms expert.

/This was in 2002.

If you are still visiting Hawaii and bringing your firearm, I would suggest you get this clarified. I would further suggest that the clarification be in writing as the statues seem pretty clear that anyone bringing a gun into Hawaii has only 3 days to register it.

 

[HIcarry]

Assuming the punctuation of the statute you quoted is correct, I think if you parse the first section it will become apparent that the conditions (1),(2),or (3) apply only to nonresident aliens, not to other persons who bring firearms into the state.

I do agree that the registration requirement is 3 days not 30, for anyone who transports a firearm into HI.

Musher,
After reviewing it more, I would agree with you about the punctuation and applicability to nonresident aliens....Thanks for the comments. Still makes it hard for the average Joe on vacation to bring his gun in, but at least it isn't as restrictive as I had originally thought.
Aloha

 

[hvengel]

I should mention my source which came from a phone conversation with a police officer

NEVER trust any information about the law that you receive from a police officer until you have talked to a lawyer and confirmed it. This officer may have actually believed what he was saying but it is apparent that the information is bogus.

 

[musher]

NEVER trust any information about the law that you receive from a police officer until you have talked to a lawyer and confirmed it. This officer may have actually believed what he was saying but it is apparent that the information is bogus

And this, of course, is why they call them law officers and not official lawyers.

 

[musher]

A'ole pilikia HIcarry. I've made the decision not to bring a firearm every time I've visited. You are definitely right that they make it a pain.

 

[HIcarry]

Musher,
You must have traveled here a quite a few times to pull that phrase out...if you ever get back out here feel free to look me up and I'll buy you a cool adult beverage of your choice.
Aloha and mahalo,

 

[ilbob]

it seems clear that the grace period is three days, not 30, and the restrictions on having a hunting license, etc. only apply to people who are not US citizens.

the hr218 stuff is also fairly clear, while of dubious constitutionality. cops and retired cops from any state (including HI) with the proper documentation can carry concealed while in HI.

 

[musher]

Hey, if you're on the big island, maybe I'll see you in March HIcarry.

What's dubious about the constitutionality of HR218, ilbob? Doesn't the commerce clause cover that too?

 

[HIcarry]

Musher,
I am on Oahu, but can see why you prefer the Big Isle...it's one of my favorite places.
Aloha