Class 3 Problem

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Here is a big RUB. Being incorporated to purchase NFA items means that the corporation owns the items not you. If you disolve the corporation you have to transfer the items on a form 4 to yourself or back to a dealer. If you can transfer them to yourself, you will pay the $200 transfer tax 2 times, once for the original purchase to the corporation and again when you transfer the items to yourself.
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So...... does that mean that you still have to do a CLEO sign-off on the form 4 if you're transferring to yourself after you dissolve your corporation (thereby making it a moot point to create a corporation, buy up on NFA items, and then dissolve it when you're "satisfied")? Or does that step become null and void, since you'd be transferring it to yourself?
 
So...... does that mean that you still have to do a CLEO sign-off if you're transferring to yourself (after you dissolve your corporation)?
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You need to transfer your NFA weapons before you dissolve your LLC / corporation. Your weapons become contraband otherwise.

You would need a CLEO signature to transfer them to yourself. You wouldn't need a CLEO signature to transfer them to your trust.
 
thereby making it a moot point to create a corporation, buy up on NFA items, and then dissolve it when you're "satisfied"
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Yes, a very moot point... Why would anyone dissolve their NFA Corp? The Corp will definitely out live you. There is no point in dissolving it. Just enjoy your new NFA toys.
 
TRAC, awesome, thanks for sharing that. I guess i'm going to pick up that software instead of the lawyer route. So after I create the documents and have them notorized is that it? I don't have to send them anywhere or any go through any other process. And when I send in the form 4 do I just send a copy of said documents?
 
Coprs and LLCs involve fees that are dependent on the state that you reside in...

I recently formed a Trust to bypass the Passport Photo and Finger Print Card requirement. (My CLEO told me that he would sign off but why waste the time..)

I formed a legally binding trust for the cost of notarizing two documents. The Memorandum of Trust and the Certificate of Trust.

I used Quicken Willmaker (which costs $40 retail) to generate the documents. It sets the trust document as per your specific state's guidelines. It then asks a long line of questions and generates the Trust at the end. A lawyer will charge around $500 to set one up when Willmaker will do the same for less than $50. Go to SilencerTalk.com if you want to read about hundreds of people that set up NFA trusts with the program.

There are no yearly taxes (as with Corps) or fees. You just amend the Trust and get it notarized every time you buy another NFA item.
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Excellent. I think I will do that when I move to get one.
 
Declined

Yep the Sgt. just called and said the cleo refused to sign. So I will be picking up that software after work today. I asked why the decline and he said for two reasons. Back when I was around 13 or 14 one day I was cleaning my room and discovered 2 artillery shells (fireworks) that somehow managed to seek refuge under the bed. Being a kid, I wanted to pop them but not having the tube anymore my and a friend decided just to throw them (in my backyard). No big deal right? Well a nieghbor was outside mowing and called the cops. Cops came out and took the report. We explained what we were doing and he left. Well eight years later (now) the Sgt tells me "well it's shows here on such and such day you were out "blowing **** up". I told him what it was and he goes well it's just a pattern of behavior. The other was when I was about 16 or so I got into a fight at school b/c some kid spit on me. He said my pattern of behavior wasn't seemed "destructive"!:what: I tried to explain that my past was exactly that, my past and It wasn't even anything bad! Other than those 2 things I have never been in trouble with the cops other than traffic tickets. I told hime that I was in college and worked for an aircraft manufacturer for past 3 years (stability)and wasn't a bad person but that wasn't good enough so.....
 
It is too bad that CLEOs do not sign like they are supposed to, IIRC they sign off on whether it is legal in their jurisdiction for an individual to own said items, not whether you are a good or bad guy. That is for the FBI check.



WARNING TO ALL INVOLVED.


MAKE SURE YOU ARE LEGAL IN ALL YOU DO AND REMEMBER THIS IS THE INTARW3B AND WE ARE NOT LAWYERS.






B
 
Haha I just saw that I put "Hime" and college in the same sentence, oops. I got a copy of Willmaker 2007, so after I create it and have it notarized what do I have to do?
 
I got a copy of Willmaker 2007, so after I create it and have it notarized what do I have to do?
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Make a few copies of your trust document and put the original in a safe place (such as a safe deposit box).

Your dealer will need to make new Form 4's with your trust as the transferee. You won't need prints, photos or a CLEO signature this time around. Send a copy of your trust document with the Form 4's.

You need to update the trust's property schedule at some point. I think it makes sense to do so when you know the make, model and serial number of your trust's new toy.
 
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NEGATIVE on sending full copies of the Declaration of Trust. There is no reason to send the full trust. The ATF has no business knowing what non-NFA items the trust owns, and as for any NFA items, they already know. Likewise, they have no need to know how you intend to dsitribute said weaponry or the contact info on them.

Print and have Notarized the Certification of Trust. Make copies and send in copies of this document. It says that the Trust does indeed exist and is all the ATF needs to see. (You may have ot have a legit copy of the Trust when you get the Certification notarized - not sure)
 
No argument, much better to send a copy of a Certification of Trust instead of a copy of the Declaration of Trust. Willmaker produces both documents.
 
I live in johnson county so my cleo is B. Alford.
Ok I set up the trust and sent my class 3 a copy, he said everything looks good and he will be sending me a new form 4 in the next coupls days. I've got one question though. As far as my trust's assets, do I transfer the suppressor into the trust before I send to atf or after? Or does it matter? Yea I will create a certificate of trust to send rather than the whole thing. I appreciate you guys responses because I had no idea you could transfer them into a trust. I was planning on the corp. route but it's kinda seems like a pita.
 
As far as my trust's assets, do I transfer the suppressor into the trust before I send to atf or after?
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My preference is to update the property schedule after you have paid for the item, and you know the manufacturer, model and serial number.
 
Excellent discussion. I had not heard about the trust route myself - I will be doing that.
Now, if i can only find a gunsmith who can thread my barrels that is somewhere near north fla...
 
by going the trust or corp. route, does that allow one to purchase NFA items in states that normally do not allow them? I live in NY and would love to have a silencer or two or 10, and while I do plan on moving out of NY some time in the future it'd be nice to start my NFA collection sooner than later.
 
I'm amazed at the intelligence on this board. I know gun owners are smart, but I've learned more by reading this thread than I have learned in a good while. Thanks. You guys are good.
 
rero360, no, if your state doesn't allow them, you can't have them.

Yea, it was almost too easy setting up the trust, I am currently waiting on my new form 4 to arrive.
 
Why would anyone mess with the CLEO if it can be done without his sig?
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Because some of us live where getting them signed is routine. No dressing up, no calling ahead, no BS. Just drop it off and it gets signed.
 
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