Class III - Help !!

[Newton]

I have just been asked to handle the firearms component of an estate sale here in Phoenix, AZ following the death of a close friend. (see also my thread in the buy/sell forum).

While I was going through his extensive firearms collection, I came across what appears to be a full auto trigger group for a HK91/93 (fire selector with S, E, F on the side).

Firstly, is there any way of telling for sure if it has a registered sear, my buddy definitely didn't have a Class III but he has been collecting for many years, secondly - what would it be worth, and finally, can I legally sell it?

Any advice appreciated, this one came out of the blue.

 

[Big_E]

I have no idea about anything like that, but I would "hold onto it."

 

[andyffer]

Im in Phoenix and willing to buy it.
As long as I dont have to register or pay the tax on it
Thanks

 

[Newton]

Thanks - I just checked with our local full auto dealer and it's perfectly legal to own as long as there's no registered sear document (which there isn't) and it's not near a HK91 (which it isn't).

Apparently it's worth about $200, and I'm just going to throw it in with the other sale items, if it's really worth $7,000 - well - that's for you guys to figure out

 

[TechBrute]

I apologize, I don't know the answer to your question, but what I DO know is that on The High Road, we would prefer that people give helpful advice, and not advocate things that might be illegal.

As far as "Hold onto it," you might wind up holding something worthless if it is flat out outlawed. You'll wish you had sold it if that's the case. You'll wish you hadn't if it doubles in value from now, but that's unlikely. NFA items have pretty much been flat for a few years now.

Secondly, if it's a registered NFA item, what the second reply is advocating is illegal.

 

[nalioth]

Yes, you can find them in any G3/Cetme parts kit.

You can even have them near an HK91, so long as the rifle isn't cut to accept it. Civilian HK91/Cetme/G3 receivers are shaped differently and won't accept the full auto trigger pack.

 

[mp5a3]

It's perfectly legal to own a full auto trigger pack w/o being registered. Unless the reciever has been modified to accept a 2 pushpin trigger pack the 2 will not work together. This was a change requested by the NFA. You can buy a full auto G3 lower for $100 bucks, but unless you have a converted receiver it does you no good.

Read this ..

http://machinegunpriceguide.com/html/hk_nfa_conv.HTM

And here's an idea of prices..

http://www.westernfirearms.com/wfc/hk51?sz=1131x665

 

[Big_E]

Jeez, I was just implying that if it belonged to one of my friends I would keep it. My grandpa gave my mom and I a few really nice guns and even though I am strapped for cash I would never sell them because of the heirloom value.

 

[Newton]

Thanks again guys, I'm sure no one was suggesting anything illegal, we're all on the right side of the law here.

 

[pharmer]

"Yes, you can find them in any G3/Cetme parts kit.

You can even have them near an HK91, so long as the rifle isn't cut to accept it. Civilian HK91/Cetme/G3 receivers are shaped differently and won't accept the full auto trigger pack."

What he said. I bought a G3 kit from I/O for $149. Sold the SEF lower for $100. Now have spares for the 91(bolt head/carrier group are worth the price alone). Joe

 

[CleverNickname]

Firstly, is there any way of telling for sure if it has a registered sear, my buddy definitely didn't have a Class III but he has been collecting for many years, secondly - what would it be worth, and finally, can I legally sell it?

A fairly easy way to tell is by the number of pushpins in the grip frame/trigger pack. A factory trigger pack designed for use with a machine gun will have pushpins in both the front (red circle) and rear (green circle).

A factory semi-auto pack or a full-auto pack that's designed as a conversion device to turn a semi-auto HK91 into a machine gun won't have the front pin, because an HK91 has a shelf in place of the hole for the front pin. It's purposely designed this way so only a semi-auto pack can be used on a semi-auto gun.

If there's a front pin then all you have is parts, because they can't be used with a semi-auto HK91 to make a machine gun. You can possess and sell it without paperwork. I haven't been keeping up with HK parts prices but it'd only be worth a couple hundred at most.

If it has no front pin and a clipped pack so it will fit on an HK91 then it's a machine gun and needs to be registered to be legal. Unless you're the named executor of the will, you shouldn't possess it. The executor has a "reasonable" amount of time per ATF policy to have it transferred to someone else. The serial number can be either on the outside of the trigger pack (if it's a registered pack) or on the sear itself (if it's a registered sear). Oftentimes if it's a registered sear the registrant would also engrave the serial number on the outside of the trigger pack so it would be easier to read, because reading the serial number off of the sear can be difficult without disassembling the pack.

If it's a machine gun I'd suggest looking around a lot harder for the transfer/registration papers. It'll be worth $12-14k if it's transferable.

 

[rfurtkamp]

A factory semi-auto pack or a full-auto pack that's designed as a conversion device to turn a semi-auto HK91 into a machine gun won't have the front pin, because an HK91 has a shelf in place of the hole for the front pin. It's purposely designed this way so only a semi-auto pack can be used on a semi-auto gun.

Flat out incorrect as stated.

Front pin hole is common for semi guns now as well, "clipped and pinned" lowers are common and legal semi-auto devices. The front pin hole is cosmetic only, but it's present and OK as a cosmetic feature.

An unmodified pack won't fit on a semi-shelfed HK though. you have to trim the trigger pack box and the grip frame and replace parts to convert it to semi - which is why it's perfectly legal to have an unmodified HK pack laying around in the parts bin.

I should add that it's also extremely common for registered sear packs to be in clipped and pinned lowers now as well for cosmetic reasons, it's not just semis that do it.

 

[CleverNickname]

The front pin hole is cosmetic only, but it's present and OK as a cosmetic feature.

When the pack is removed from the gun it's quite obvious that there's actually no front pin, just the ends of the pin cut off and attached to the side of the grip frame. As I stated, the front pin doesn't exist on a full-auto conversion pack or a semi-auto pack. Ends of pins that are cosmetic and don't actually attach to anything are not pins in a functional or legal sense, so what I stated is correct.