Omega III Rifle by Homer Koon - what's it worth

[bsflyfish]

halo,

Any chance you could post pics for all to see?

 

[halogrinder]

Let me ask before posting.

 

[halogrinder]

got permission to post them via the owner.


a note from the owner of the gun-

"This is number 10 and one of the THREE remaining presentation rifles that Homer Koon made back in 1970. Regardless of what anyone else says, Homer himself told me in 1994 that this rifle was given to his best friend in 1970 for loaning him the money to help get his Omega III project off the ground. #1 and #2 are gold inlaid with a ruby in the stock, no other "S" numbered guns got that treatment. #3 was given to his rancher friend and no one has seen it since it was given to him. [snippet removed to not ruffle any feathers]
This rifle is what it is, number S10 that has special color treatment that the production rifles did not get, red receiver and blue bbl. It does NOT say flower Mound or Denton or Kali on it and Homer told me it was made in the Flower Mound shop and specifically only had Omega III, his name, the serial, and caliber.

How did I arrive at this asking price? S.P. Fjestad, writer of the Blue Book of Guns, looked it over in 1997 and told me that since there are so few of these (plus finding a presentation rifle much less a production in unfired condition) is likely impossible, that this rifle is easily worth $60-65K. That was 1997, wanna take a guess what John Waynes rifle would be worth today? The museum in OKC has it insured for $350K. Is mine worth $55,000? perhaps, but here is the deal, there are no more like it ANYWHERE.


BTW, I am open to offers that include other guns in addition to cash for this one."

 

[Maverick223]

Hmm, I actually like the Ranger Arms rifle a bit better (but I wouldn't turn down either). From the looks of it, it should be quite a bit lighter than the Omega-III.

halogrinder, is the receiver of the Omega-III Al.? I notice that it shows up differently (like anodized Al. often does) due to the camera flash.

 

[halogrinder]

im not sure of that maverick. i was not taking the pictures. if i could get decent lighting and a nice DSLR up there im sure the photos would look different.

 

[Maverick223]

I'm sure they would; that color is indicative of a change in the finish, I am certain that it matches the rest of the rifle reasonably well when viewed in person.

Edit: Just noticed that you changed the referenced post...I suppose it is just a red-colored receiver. Interesting choice.

 

[halogrinder]

if my photo-nut friend is ever in the neighborhood of my Omega friend's..... ill see if he can meet up and snap some pics. i dont think that will be happening any time soon, but hey pigs can fly sometimes

 

[Maverick223]

It would be nice to see some HQ photos, but don't go out of your way just to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[halogrinder]

its at LEAST a 8 hour drive for me.

 

[animator]

if my photo-nut friend is ever in the neighborhood of my Omega friend's..... ill see if he can meet up and snap some pics. i dont think that will be happening any time soon, but hey pigs can fly sometimes

Next time I'm up his way, I might see about getting some photos of it with the 5D MkII. Might not be until the shoot in April though... hopefully you plan on going.

 

[halogrinder]

im trying! couple of my guns are sick though

not that that's anything new lol

 

[dfkoon]

OMEGA Eagles THREE (3)

Friends, I’m sorry that I’m not able to be more responsive. I spend a great deal of time out of town these days. And when I am home, I really prefer spending the time with my family. I really do hate my next post on this subject.

bsflyfish, I promise to reply when I have more time and can really devote the effort that I’m sure you would appreciate. I did receive your private message. It might not be this weekend, but I will reply. Homer Koon designed the Ranger action. This was the 1st firearm company that he started. I can and will provide much more information later. It is really its own story and Ranger was also a really good action. That will be a good post.

halogrinder, animator, ltriker, whatever alias you are going by today, the rest of this post is directly for you and/or your group.

For my protection, let me state that I am not interested in purchasing your rifle. I am not interested in negotiating a price for it. I am not trying to dissuade others from purchasing it either. And I am certainly not interested in helping you learn more about it. And I am only interested in protecting the other gun lovers in this great country of ours. I have been honest in every one of my posts. I do not know where one (1) of the THREE (3) presentation rifles is. That does not mean that I do not know what it looks like.

I have tried to be diplomatic. I am not a lawyer (tax paying engineer actually). I believe that profiteering based on a fraud is a crime. False advertising, intentional deceitful selling of an item, fraud, con…. I’m sure there is a perfect word that is escaping me at this time, maybe someone else can chime in on the term that I am looking for…. [armlaw, you are a judge, what is the crime these guys are perpetuating??] But nonetheless, I’m sure it is a crime. And that is exactly what you or your group is attempting to do.

I have really tried to figure out if you are really this stupid or just really do have the criminal intent that is so apparent to me. You have made many outrageous claims. Many of these were prior to my participating in this thread. All of these false claims would benefit any owner of an Omega. I tried to set those claims straight without seeming to be insulting. I am a bit disappointed in the others that know these claims to be false for not speaking up. But I guess their possessions gain value if your lies are really accepted.

I have pointed out that there are many more than nine (9) of these rifles in circulation. Besides your one (1), Bgrayson has four (4) with knowledge of (3) others. Armlaw has ten (10) (which I’m sure he won’t mind my mentioning are for sale). And there have been several others that have come up for sale since I got involved in this thread. That is just those folks who have been part of this thread. This thread is but a sample of the population. At this time I don not know how many there are. My guess is 700-1000. This is a bit more than your nine (9).

I have informed you that the rifle that you are attempting to pass as one of the THREE (3) presentation Omegas is NOT one of the THREE (3) presentation rifles. I have explained why I know this to be true. I have shown you what the THREE (3) presentation rifles look like. The presentation rifle had gold inlays with a ruby in the stock. Your rifle does not. You found your way around that by noted that the picture of the brochure that I provided only showed two (2) of the THREE (3) together.

Well, I am now providing (or attempting to) a few pictures showing all THREE (3) presentation rifles together and an picture from an article that states those three (3) went to Herb Klein, John Connolly and John Wayne (as I stated earlier). If you pay attention, you will note that all three (3) are inlayed with gold and a ruby just as I described earlier. I would very much like to hear which of those THREE (3) men who received those rifles is the “rancher friend” that your ‘friend’ received this rifle from. Or maybe your “friend” is this unnamed “rancher friend”. You are soooo mysterious. I really do not know. Nor do I really care unless you rip someone off. I hate to break it to you but Elvis is dead and so are those THREE (3) fine men who were chosen for there own attributes.





I would also like to know why you and he remain anonymous. If I’m selling something I generally tell folks who I am. How many years have you been trying to pass this off as one of the THREE (3) presentation rifles (not really a question). And why your friend chose to remove any markings that would make it one of the three (3) presentation rifles. Gold is of value these days. But to remove it from a presentation rifle in itself should be criminal. Again, not really a question as I know it never had gold inlay.

And by the way, the presentation rifles did not even exist in 1970. And how you get S10 is equal to #3 is beyond my reasoning of math. That must be the new obama math. But nice touch on “#3 was given to his rancher friend and no one has seen it since it was given to him. [snippet removed to not ruffle any feathers]”. THAT certainly adds a mysterious realm to the quest. Except that I’ve already told you who the THREE (3) presentation rifles went to, long before this post. You ruffled my feathers nonetheless. If my father were still able, I can hear exactly what his words would be to your false claims.

Whoever actually owns this rifle ought to be proud that it is a very fine rifle. It was made by Homer Koon. All of the Omegas that have been kept up are very fine rifles. However, I think to try to sell this rifle for 50k+ is insanity, but only criminal due to your false claims. Your rifle has value. However, to claim that it is one (1) of the THREE (3) presentation rifles is outright criminal fraud.

If you ever actually find someone who falls for your ruse, and if asked (I won’t be hiding), I will personally be there at your trial to testify that I did inform you and your group of the fraud that you are perpetuating. Just because you do not use your real name here, does not mean that it can not be determined once you fleece your prey. I may also notify both gunbroker (that is where you like to post) and the attorney general of the state that you post your next ad from.

I really do hope that I am stating my position clear enough for you this time. Though, I do not expect to hear from you and it might be comical to actually hear or read your snippets, I know that you will be hiding in the shadows.

For the record without aliases, I am Duncan F. Koon, 1st born son to Homer E. Koon Jr. My father designed and founded Ranger Arms, Omega Arms, H. Koon Inc. and Alpha Arms (in that order) among others after he served in the US Army and the US Marines. You do not know me. I do not believe you knew him. And he certainly would not have called you a friend. His friends had honor.

Assuming that there will be a next post. I hope it will be about Ranger as bsflyfish had some real questions that the true fans might like to hear about.

 

[Maverick223]

Thank you for your public service announcement and information, Mr. Koon. I too hope this thread stays afloat as it affords a wealth of information about a very nice, but not terribly well known group of rifles. I'd very much like to hear more about the Ranger (here or in another thread) when you have the time, as it too looks to be an interesting specimen.

 

[panhead58ak]

Thank you Mr Koon It may have been uncomfortable to write you last post but rest easy most everyone likes facts over make believe stories.I have no idea how many guns were made my Omega is #962 its left hand in caliber 300 win mag .I woud not imagine mine was the last one made so a thousand or so seems very possible. The gun is so unique and finding information is tough when I can find info it sucks to have to weed out the nonsense I really appreciate your input to this thread and hope someday you can write a book on all your fathers guns. thanks Kelly

 

[armlaw]

Thank you DK.
You are a man of honor.
Have question that might confirm for me my recollections of that great day when my wife and I attended the "Gathering of Eagles". It was great to see the photo of your Dad on the left. It was just they way I remember him.

Can the photos you have be exploded to show the underside of the Dukes fore stock?
Why I ask is, I thought I saw the Dukes "BRAND", that was engraved in a gold insert on the fore stock? I forgot what the BRAND looked like but it surely personalized #1 .
Keep in touch. Armlaw

 

[dfkoon]

a bit more then Ranger

Hi all, I took a bit longer break than I thought I would. I’ve got to admit that I let a few folks get under my skin. I am sorry for that. I used to think that I was a bit thicker skinned. Responding to their outrageous claims took precedence over the legitimate questions that are probably more interesting. I probably should have just posted a picture of the presentation rifles and simply asked which of the three (3) was the one that was given to this secret person and that no one has seen forever. But there was a big part of me that just wanted to shut these guys up once and for all. Judging from the lack of response from them, I might have actually been successful.

I am not perfect by any means. When I get a question, I will usually go thru my files and refresh my memory even if I am sure of the answer. I really didn’t do that on my last post as I asked a pseudo question that I actually had the answer to. When I asked how you get S10 = #3, I already knew his answer. This was from “ltriker” on a different thread from Gunbroker.com and let me say upfront that it is a complete fabrication of the truth.

“Perhaps you saw one of these in the Cowboy Museum in OKC, OK? One was given to John Wayne(a special presentation version) and is serial S1(production rifles were 101 and up) or maybe you saw S2 in Huntsville, TX at the prison museum where some artifacts once belonging to Gov John Connelly were displayed. Unfortunately S3-S9 were given to the board of directors of Homers business partner, they turned theirs in to be destroyed, that leaves only ONE presentation model left, S10 is out there somewhere in a private collection. Now, the presentation rifles differed(aside from the serial numbers) from production in that they got special polishing treatment, glossier wood finishing, perfect alignment on every part, and were NEVER test fired.
When you get a chance to see something like this, do you go dig a little to try to find the history? Do you wonder what it is? Do you dream of owning something RARE?”​

All I can say these days is BUYER BEWARE and what a crock! Like any con, add a bit of fact with a whole lot of fiction and see who you can dupe. Did he try to dig a little to try to find the history? NO. Maybe if my last name was Smith or Jones. But Koon? How hard is it to really track me down? Or anyone from my family for that matter? Ltriker, you should give that rifle to a charity. No one will ever provide you with its history now. And if the government asks me what it is worth, I’ll let them know (at your trial). So think twice about that route too.

So, I’m really hoping that I’ve got these guys out of my system now. And I’m really sorry that I didn’t do it with a bit more brevity. I would like to thank the positive responses on this thread, the PMs and the other correspondences.

Bsflyfish has a question and a couple of PMs that I have not responded to due to my above fixation. Instead of using the PM or your email address, I thought I would include the answers in the post. Your questions are not totally different from another reader who had contacted me a while back.

Ranger Arms was the first firearm company that my father started. He designed the Ranger action and was the president of the company. He was not the money behind the company which is probably one reason it eventually failed.

After the war, my father was interested in hunting. My grandfather didn’t hunt, but loved to fish. Anyways, my father spent a few years tinkering with modifying existing actions before he decided to create one. According to my mother, he spent a couple of years perfecting the action. From articles that I have there were a couple improvements made after.

I was 9 years old when we left Gainesville. I did now know Joe Dubiel. Another person has told me that he might have been the shop foreman. That would make sense to me. I have asked my aunt to ask my cousins who did work at Ranger but have not ever received an answer as to Dubiel’s position in the company (if any). If Dubiel was the shop foreman they should remember. And if they do then I will post the answer. Dubiel did not develop the Ranger action. That was my father. I understand that Dubiel did develop his own action many years later and that Dubiel made some fine rifles.

Ranger arms made both actions that were sold to other gun makers (custom by today’s standards) as well as complete rifles. There is a chance that Dubiel was one of those other gun makers.

I am sure the Dubiel that you bought is a very fine rifle.

Van Ellis was the main money behind Ranger. According to my mother, he had married the Morton Potato Chips only child and that is where the money came from. There were other investors that were present prior to Van Ellis. All but one sold out when my father did.

Besides Ranger, Omega, Snake Charmer (K. Koon Inc.) and Alpha, there was only one other firearm company that we were trying to start up when my father died. It was a fully automatic weapon firing plastic ammunition. We hoped to market it to the police and military. There were technical and other issues that prevented us from completing that project. Eventually I folded it because there was not a solid market for it. That was a hard pill for me to swallow.

My father did spend a few years trying to branch out into other areas. I’m sure I eluded to it earlier, it was tough being a gun designer with all of the slip and fall lawyers that we have created. Guns are what my father knew and loved.

I have not yet purchased the rifles that I’m looking for due to various reasons. I am hoping to do so either this year or next. A Ranger will hopefully follow an Omega. However, I have family members who have Rangers.

If you are really interested, I can put you in touch with a couple of people who have Omega’s for sale. I’m not too worried that you might buy the only one out there. I was quite serious when I said there are more than 3.

I think Rangers might be a bit easier only due to the higher number produced. I have an Alpha that my father and I built. And several snake charmers. Those I haven’t been looking for, so I can’t really state how hard they are to find.

 

[Maverick223]

Thanks for the info, D.F.Koon. I'd very much like to hear more about the Rangers, particularly history, chamberings/variations, and fair market value, when you have the chance. I might be interested in purchasing one (or perhaps even a Omega, if not too costly) in the future.

 

[Coal Dragger]

halogrinder,

Have you considered approaching any firearms museums about selling the rifle? Just curious since $55-$65K is pretty steep for an individual, but an institution might be able to swing it. Someplace like the W.F. Cody Museum in Cody, WY for example.

 

[halogrinder]

'taint my rifle- just a friends. apparently its a subject thats "slightly" touchy. i guess what happened here is what happens when you just relay information.... supose i shouldnt do that any longer.

 

[halogrinder]

odd- it could be because i was on vacation for a few weeks- but i remember there being a post below mine.......

was it erased? i know THR doesnt allow editing/deleting posts after its been up for a few hours......

 

[animator]

Responding to their outrageous claims took precedence over the legitimate questions that are probably more interesting. I probably should have just posted a picture of the presentation rifles and simply asked which of the three (3) was the one that was given to this secret person and that no one has seen forever. But there was a big part of me that just wanted to shut these guys up once and for all. Judging from the lack of response from them, I might have actually been successful.


So, I’m really hoping that I’ve got these guys out of my system now. And I’m really sorry that I didn’t do it with a bit more brevity. I would like to thank the positive responses on this thread, the PMs and the other correspondences.

If you're directing this post at either myself, or halogrinder, or anyone else that you could possibly be more specific to--and I can only assume that you are, due to calling us out by name in a previous post--I can assure you that you have not shut anyone up, nor any other claim to internet-toughness regarding myself or others that you may wish to pursue. You have no leg up on me, nor does anything you have to say determine any sort of intellectual superiority to that of myself or anyone you were referring to in your recent posts.


I have done absolutely nothing in this thread or on this forum to deserve the negative, and downright vitriolic attitude that seems to be emanating from your last few posts. I have no dog in this fight. And I could care less what the rifle is, or what it isn't, but judging by what you write, you seem to hold me to a fault by simply knowing someone with a rifle that is for sale. Weather or not that rifle is what it is claimed to be is not for you or I to discuss. That is to be left between the seller and any prospective buyer, and there's not a whole lot you can do about it, aside from speaking negatively about the seller or any people that may know him on a personal level--to which you are quite accomplished.


Rest assured that your lengthy, and borderline arrogant replies have not changed anything regarding myself, or other individuals you wish to call out by name in this thread. Instead, take a moment to comprehend the simple truth that possibly the reason "we" (for the sake of argument) have stopped responding to this thread because "we" really don't have anything else to ad to it, and, speaking personally, have no desire to continue a pompously one-sided conversation that will go nowhere positive.

 

[dfkoon]

Yes halogrinder, there was a post. As it was remained well less than a day, you most likely have an email copy of what it said to know that it existed. That post was either removed by the poster who doesn't appear to be a member or one of the moderators. My bet is the moderator probably deleted the post and canceled the posters account. I received an email with the message. As the subject matter was in regard to this so called “presentation rifle” that a few of you have tried to sell, I naturally assumed the post was from your group. Maybe there is another explanation. I would have responded to the post, but no sense in responding to something that does not exist.

Animator, besides trying to sell this rifle as an intermediary/agent (see post #72 if you do not recall), exactly which post have you really contributed? And the fact that you

"we" really don't have anything else to ad to it

is news to whom?

I did consider not including you in those that I “called out” but decided that you would probably respond claiming to be a non-involved party. I included halogrinder as he too offered the same service that you did for someone looking to be duped. He also provided posts #49 and #78 of this thread which clearly states the con to which my “arrogant post” (#87) attempted to stop. I’m not too sure why the owner of this rifle that yall are trying to sell can not post on his own. Maybe you two are the fall guys or maybe one or both of you own this rifle.

Those of you that I did “call out” do not need to pretend that you have no dog in this show. There is probably a finders fee if the actual owner (assuming that you are not he) can unload this rifle at the price that has been listed. BTW (means “by the way”), I also have a copy of the 2005 ad from gunbroker for this rifle that yall are trying to sell (posted by an “ltriker”). That was a beauty. Too bad yall didn’t sell it before I searched the web. But your story is still about the same. Why you must fabricate a story is beyond my understanding. It is a beautiful rifle. I guess you couldn’t turn the profit you were looking for.

I do not believe that I have attempted to shut anyone up. I welcome all posts involving my father’s rifles even the false ones (though I will respond with the truth). My arrogance is based on your perspective. To me, I’m self confident. I’ve only provided proof as to what the actual three presentation rifles look like (S-10 is not one of them) as well as those who received them (not your rancher friend). Pictures are worth a thousand words. I’ve got plenty more.

I welcome you to provide any type of tangible proof that I, the reporters that were present who wrote the many published articles or anyone else that was involved might not have. We know what the Omega III presentation rifles look like. As you should know by now, there were three (3) presentation rifles that were given to John Connolly, John Wayne, and Herb Klein. This should not be in question at this point.

My motivation for posting lies solely in the fact that I am Homer Koon’s son. I have 1st hand knowledge. You do not. I am not trying to make any money from my posts. And I’ve already stated that I’m not interested in purchasing this rifle that you are involved with. This is probably the wrong forum/post to try to sell this rifle under false pretense. Folks tend to know the truth when it is presented.

I have plenty to add and will be back. Lord willing.

 

[animator]

But there was a big part of me that just wanted to shut these guys up once and for all. Judging from the lack of response from them, I might have actually been successful.

I do not believe that I have attempted to shut anyone up.

So which is it?

Animator, besides trying to sell this rifle as an intermediary/agent (see post #72 if you do not recall), exactly which post have you really contributed?

I don't feel a personal responsibility to justify my presence on this board, or even in this thread, to you. I'm sorry if you take exception to that, but that's just the way it is.

This thread came up, and there seemed to be an interest in this particular family of rifles among several users, with an interest in seeing photos of these rifles. I responded by mentioning having a friend with one, and included a pic, hoping that people would appreciate seeing one, as there are not many photographs available. I did mention it was for sale, but only because it is.

I can see how you, or anyone, might think that post was a sales pitch, but I can assure you that was not the intention. Just more or less an "oh by the way..." plug for something that someone might be interested in. Those kinds of situations happen all the time, in almost any forum you could possibly visit.

If someone inquired about it, cool, and if not, I don't care either way, because it's of no consequence to me.

I also did not include a price because, quite frankly, I do not know a price, or even what a price should be. Again, it's not for me to decide or to even care about.

I did consider not including you in those that I “called out” but decided that you would probably respond claiming to be a non-involved party.

I certainly feel this is a safe statement to make, as my involvement goes only as far as knowing someone who has one, as well as having access to a picture of it. This should not place me in a negative light.

Those of you that I did “call out” do not need to pretend that you have no dog in this show. There is probably a finders fee if the actual owner (assuming that you are not he) can unload this rifle at the price that has been listed.

Rest assured, there is no "finders fee" for anything mentioned in this thread. Weather or not you believe me is up to you, but I can guarantee that. You need to stop assuming things that simply do not exist.

I welcome you to provide any type of tangible proof that I, the reporters that were present who wrote the many published articles or anyone else that was involved might not have.

I really don't feel I need to prove anything to you, or to anyone, in this respect. Again, there is nothing about this entire subject for me to need to prove. All I've done is mention knowing someone with a rifle, posting a pic, and mentioning it was for sale. Any burden of proof beyond what I have done will need to be determined by anyone else, because my involvement with it stops there. And in reality, my involvement is even less than that, although you seem to refuse to accept this.

My motivation for posting lies solely in the fact that I am Homer Koon’s son. I have 1st hand knowledge. You do not. I am not trying to make any money from my posts.

That's great that you have family ties with this subject, and I can respect that you have first hand knowledge, but please understand that it really does not matter to me, as again, I have no dog in this.

I also sincerely need you to understand and accept that I--and in no way do I mean any disrespect to my friend that owns one--do not give a single [redacted] about the value of the rifle. It could be worth a dollar, or a million, and it makes absolutely no difference to me. My only involvement with this discussion revolves around knowing someone with a rifle. He could sell it or be buried with it, and I don't think it would make a whole hell of a lot of difference to him.

You also need to understand and accept that no one, and definitely not I, is trying to make any money off of anything that I post, and to claim otherwise, would be a foolish move on anyone's part. And that's the way it is.

 

[rbernie]

Gang - let's ease this one back down, ok?

 

[Dryft]

Would you guys be having this same conversation, with this level of anger, if you were in the same room? Please, this was a great thread - can we take the high road on this one?