Class III weapons illegal for self defense?!

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That's the one.

Harry Beckwith. At least twice he used his. The second time was against the gang trying to heist his inventory. He could have killed them all, but intentionally shot high (other than the first one, who was trying to run him down with an Oldsmobile).
 
Wish Ayoob would get his terminology correct: High Volume Shootout: The Harry Beckwith Incident

Though not a Class III weapons dealer, Beckwith was federally licensed to possess such arms for his own use.
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A family friend of mine had to threaten to sue his local PD after they recovered his Ruger MK1 and used it as evidence but never returned it. He knew a guy in the department and he took care of it, but it took a couple days. They had to figure out who took it home. Even with all the paper work following full auto's around I see no reason to believe police would act differently with a legal MG.
 
Does it matter? Would you rather be dead or be in trouble for shooting the wrong type of gun?
 
Unless you'd let a gun shop clerk defend you in court, don't use one as a lawyer when asking about gun laws.

And if your life is in enough danger to require the use of lethal force, it matters very little what weapon you use. That is, if you want to live.
 
Even if it is legal, you would be crazy to use a $5000+ machinegun for a self defence shooting unless it was the only thing within reach when you needed it. Are you going to take the chances that law enforcement will return your gun in pristine conditioning after sitting on it for a year or two as "evidence"?
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[sarcasm on]
Right, as everyone knows, the first rule of self defense is NOT to use the best weaponry available to you at the time of the event, but to use the cheapest because of the possibility of long term police confiscation of said item. The goal here is to minimize your down time with your best firearms, not to save your life. This is based on the logic that since all guns are considered lethal, then all guns are equal in their ability to defend and hence you used the cheapest gun you have for self defense, even if it isn't the best gun you have for self defense.
[sarcasm off]
 
The Gary Fadden incident shows that although you might not go to jail for it, using a Title II firearm could cause you a LOT of trouble. Gary paid $45,000 after Heckler and Koch footed half his legal fees. You might have no problems, like Harry Beckwith, or you might be in debt for 12 years, like Gary Fadden. Or in jail. Unlike some of the other "use X and go directly to jail, do not pass go" warnings, this could be a real problem for you. Consider carefully.
 
I don't think there would be any problem in using a suppressed weapon in SD in you home.

Its not your fault that you just happened to have your weapon out with the suppressor on it and mag in and right next to you because you were preparing to take it to the range tomorrow. Freak coincidence was all that was.
 
i'm responsible for every bullet that comes out of the muzzle of my gun.

i have far more confidence in hitting what i aim at with a semi vs. a sprayandpray smgfungun.

i shudder at the potential liability of one stray bullet hitting something i didn't want to hit, never mind several dozen.
 
you would be crazy to use a $5000+ machinegun for a self defence shooting unless it was the only thing within reach when you needed it. Are you going to take the chances that law enforcement will return your gun in pristine conditioning after sitting on it for a year or two as "evidence"?
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Absolutely.
M4LE_Omni.JPG

$2500, two NFA stamps.
My family and my life are worth a lot more than $2500.
Screw the cost, I want an HD gun that will go bang every time, be maneuverable, and be relatively quiet.
If I could get the "happy switch" on it for another $2500 to make sure what goes down stays down, I would.
And if I have to pull that trigger to save any of the four lives in this house, I won't care if it rots on a shelf in the evidence locker.
It just has to go bang every time.
No question.
 
Gary paid $45,000 after Heckler and Koch footed half his legal fees.
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You're gonna face that no matter what that trigger is attached to. Terminal self-defense is EXPENSIVE. Call your bank's home equity desk, because you're gonna need a lot of money very fast.

If anything, I'd say Gary was lucky he used a MG, because H&K felt involved enough to fork him some cash. If he had, say, used a Glock to same basic effect, he'd have had to find $90K on his own.
 
If anything, I'd say Gary was lucky he used a MG, because H&K felt involved enough to fork him some cash.
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Actually they made him pay them back later so he had to eat the whole thing anyway.
 
i'm responsible for every bullet that comes out of the muzzle of my gun.

i have far more confidence in hitting what i aim at with a semi vs. a sprayandpray smgfungun.

i shudder at the potential liability of one stray bullet hitting something i didn't want to hit, never mind several dozen.
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Ever hear of fire discipline?

It's possible to 'spray and pray' with a semi-auto also. With either mode of fire, training is the key. And ctdonath is right, 3 rounds from a three-position MP5 is very easy to master.

That said, I know what I can do with an MP5SD. Even if I did own one, it would not be my HD weapon. (SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, COMWEC, different story.) I have other types that are effective and replaceable from my collection. Hmm...OTOH, I'd probably not have to fire once they saw it.....;)

It's a moot point, until I win the lottery.:evil:
 
If anything, I'd say Gary was lucky he used a MG, because H&K felt involved enough to fork him some cash. If he had, say, used a Glock to same basic effect, he'd have had to find $90K on his own.
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Its pretty clear that the only reason the DA chose to try to nail Gary to the wall is because he used a machine gun ... had he used a Glock he'd have likely never been charged.

The DA pulled a Nifong.
 
You're gonna face that no matter what that trigger is attached to.
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Criminal charges are by no means a given, even with an automatic weapon. Harry Beckwith wasn't charged. But Gary Fadden was. The Ruger AC556 was the reason. You might face a lawsuit, which will be expensive. It won't be as expensive as criminal charges on top of it.

We, the good guys, have to give some thought to the aftermath and weigh the risks carefully. Even if you decide the risks are worth it, you should know there might be some. A problem the bad guys aren't saddled with.
 
It's kinda hard to only fire two rounds F/A from an MP5, then assess whether further rounds are required.
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i have far more confidence in hitting what i aim at with a semi vs. a sprayandpray smgfungun.
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Okay, now for those of us who have actually shot full auto, we know that is absolute bull. For those who haven't, short controlled bursts are a piece of cake. Squeeze trigger, let go. :rolleyes: I can squeeze one shot out of an MP5 at a time, on FA, but you have to jerk it quick and get off it. Most people it is about a three round burst.

My home defense gun is an SBR .223 with a sound suppresor. Total cost, with optic and taxes, is about $2,500. I can articulate why I use this particular weapon for self defense. My state doesn't suck when it comes to self defense laws. Your mileage may vary.
 
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