Claw extractor

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rhtwist

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Should the rim on the bolt face that surrounds the cartridge rim have, as close as I can figure, have a.030" or 75mm gap between the bottom of the extractor claw and the top of the rim. Rifle does not eject a cartridge. Seems to just lay in action. It is a post / pre-64 style winchester.
Thanks .... Help
 
Does the cartridge stay on the bolt face when extracted or does it fall off into the action?

this is a pre 64 bolt face

l5m0UPD.jpg

this is a Mauser

u24cl9g.jpg

hB3CsXI.jpg

See those shoulders opposite the claw extractor? They are critical for proper extraction. They should have a slight overhang over the rim. The extractor pushes the rim into these shoulders. That tension keeps the cartridge in place. So, the next question:

Has your bolt face been "trued" by a gunsmith?

Gunsmiths who you would think ought to know that the tension on the bolt face is critical to reliable extraction, often don't know. And when they "true the bolt face" they will square off the over hang and remove material from the shoulder with their cutting tool. The result is, there is not enough extractor tension on the rim, and the case falls off the bolt face.

Show some pictures of your bolt face and extractor. Put a cartridge on the bolt face and show us what you think is wrong. Lets see something that might give us a clue what is going on with your bolt.
 
BoltCartidge.JPG

The cartridge is barely hanging on the face as it is balanced for photo.

sideboltt.JPG

Side view, and I don't currently have a photo for the bolt face. But looking at it, there is a higher portion of the surrounding rim opposite to the extractor. It does not appear to hang over the bolt face any. There are no ridges around the extractor slot, it is just flat bolt face.
Will try to get more pictures tomorrow.
Thank you
 
Hello,
Snap caps and empty cases are generally pulled out of the chamber and left lying on the magazine follower. The bolt resembles the pre 64 photo. Just tried and an empty case will eject if the rifle is held vertically, muzzle up. Horizontally the round seems to get pulled back and stays on the follower, loose.
 
Great idea! Wish I had thought of it. One piece of blue painters tape does not help. Two layers and the bolt is very hard to close and flattens the tape, but it did extract and eject the empty case with the rifle held horizontally.
Thanks and seems it will have to be seen to professionally, unfortunately...
 
rhtwist said:
Great idea! Wish I had thought of it. One piece of blue painters tape does not help. Two layers and the bolt is very hard to close and flattens the tape, but it did extract and eject the empty case with the rifle held horizontally.
Thanks and seems it will have to be seen to professionally, unfortunately...
Click to expand...

I have a similar problem with European and US brass in Swiss Schmidt Rubins. Swiss ammunition has very thick rims.

IJODoVQ.jpg

but the crap made in the USA or in Eastern Europe uses the 8mm Mauser or 30-06 rim thickness. And the cases fall off fall off the bolt face.
 
No that can't help the issue. Nominally, non-professionally the widest portion of the inside rim is .483. The ammo I used is with the same measured accuracy .469. Do these numbers resemble correct dimensioning?
 
Slamfire said:
Does the cartridge stay on the bolt face when extracted or does it fall off into the action?

this is a pre 64 bolt face

View attachment 1105423

this is a Mauser

View attachment 1105424

View attachment 1105425

See those shoulders opposite the claw extractor? They are critical for proper extraction. They should have a slight overhang over the rim. The extractor pushes the rim into these shoulders. That tension keeps the cartridge in place. So, the next question:

Has your bolt face been "trued" by a gunsmith?

Gunsmiths who you would think ought to know that the tension on the bolt face is critical to reliable extraction, often don't know. And when they "true the bolt face" they will square off the over hang and remove material from the shoulder with their cutting tool. The result is, there is not enough extractor tension on the rim, and the case falls off the bolt face.

Show some pictures of your bolt face and extractor. Put a cartridge on the bolt face and show us what you think is wrong. Lets see something that might give us a clue what is going on with your bolt.
Click to expand...

Hi Slamfire, I have a K98, '41 byf build. I don't see any overhang of the bolt shoulder. But it doesn't look like anything has chipped away either.
20220929_091437.jpg
20220929_090300.jpg
I have shot hundreds of various rounds through this rifle. I've never had any extraction problems until now. There is no tension whatsoever when putting a case to the bolt face.
I'm thinking I need a new extractor, but came here for some guidance.
By the way, I did disassemble and cleaned the bolt with no change. And the chamber is clean.
Thanks for any help.
 
Last edited:
kcofohio, bad news. Your extractor is definitely broken. The first picture shows a ragged edge where the extended portion broke off. This damage is usually caused by closing the bolt on a cartridge already in the chamber rather than feeding it from the magazine.
 
Kp321 said:
kcofohio, bad news. Your extractor is definitely broken. The first picture shows a ragged edge where the extended portion broke off. This damage is usually caused by closing the bolt on a cartridge already in the chamber rather than feeding it from the magazine.
Click to expand...
Now that I looked on the computer screen, I see what you're talking about. Thank you for pointing it out.
I found 2 sites that offer new extractor for the K98 in stock. Is either of the 2 sites better than the other?
https://www.kbtacticalstar.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=536

https://www.waffenmeisters.com/33-4...mm-german-mauser-bolt-part-p-276-for-sale-buy
 
rhtwist said:
...as close as I can figure, have a.030" or 75mm gap...
Click to expand...
Just an off topic friendly primer - if you want to convert inches to millimeters, you multiply the dimension by 25.4, or in your case it will be 0,762 mm. Which, for all practical purposes requiring sound accuracy, can be rounded to the tenth (0,76 mm). Converting Metric to Imperial is vice versa - divide the result by 25.4 and round it to the hundredth.
 
Thank Mizar. But I was just reading what was on the feeler gauge which indicates both systems. Personally I find it one ot positive benefits of an app on a telephone, a calculator/unit converter !!!
[:))
BTW thinking about it, that is a useful synapese to use up in a dwindling supply.....
 
The firearm is reputedly on the way to the appropriate entity for repair...............
 
stillquietvoice said:
You could try sarco, numrich or apex as well
Click to expand...
Thank you. I ordered last Friday from Waffenmeisters. About $45 OTD for new extractor. Hopefully it is of good quality. I figure it's coming by snail mail, so it may take a bit to receive it. But now I've learned of 2 more parts dealers I didn't know about. :)
@Kp321, I believe I broke the extractor when I was removing a spent case. I had shot about 50 rounds of Yugo surplus and reloads. Then I went to shoot some cast bullet reloads with a charge around 34 gr. of IMR4198. The necks had a lot of soot on them. And extraction was stiff. From now on I'll have cleaning rods on hand for such an occasion.
 
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