Clean burning Medium/Heavy velocity powder for .357 Magnum?

[Parks2055]

Hello All,
First off a quick Thank You to all of you that spend the time to answer questions for people like me looking to learn from your years of experience.
I don't have a lot of people to turn to here in Canada aside from the older guys at the club that are very set in there ways - but stiill great to learn from.
I have been loading 40S&W for a couple months now and looking to get dies and components to start 38 Special and 357 Magnum.
I have been using W231 and AA#5 for my 40S&W with good results. Looks like these powders will be decent for my 38 special needs, but I may want to look at another powder for the 357 Mag.
I will be content with 125 to 158gr. copper plated rounds.
My S&W M&P R8 has a large gap from cylindar to frame and throws a lot of GSR on my left hand, so a clean burning powder might help a bit?
So far thinking W296 or VVN110 may be good choices?
Any other good powders I should consider?
Also, at what point must I use Magnum Primers? Most recipes for W296 recommend magnum primers - at least with heavier bullets.
Are regular small pistol primers okay with lighter 125gr. projectiles?
Thanks again,
Parks

 

[REL1203]

I load my 357mag exclusively with Power Pistol and 125jhp bullets. My GP100 loves 9.2g PP and 10.0g PP, its a great med-to-heavy powder and its cheap

 

[MtnCreek]

W296 needs a mag primer and firm crimp. It burns pretty clean for me, but I load it at MAX. That's the only powder I use for .357, but I don't shoot them much. If I were looking for a .357 range load for paper punching, I would look to another powder.

 

[JLDickmon]

mmmm... N110 is a little too slow in my experience..
any one of the slower pistol powders would be better..
N340
3N37
N350
3N38 (which might even be a tad slow for what you're wanting)

 

[Parks2055]

Ya - I was thinking of trying a VihtaVuori powder as I keep reading that they burn clean.
So, What's the difference between N350 and 3N37? Look close for burn rate.
Is the N350 a little more flexible for other loads? May be okay for my 40S&W loads as well?

 

[mbopp]

If you're going to shoot copper plated bullets you'll need to look for a medium burning powder. 296 is good for all-out 357 loads but you may peel the copper off a plated bullet. 296 is fine for jacketed bullets.

 

[kludge]

I use Universal and 2400 in the .357 Mag. Universal for plinkers and 2400 for hotter loads. No.7 works a lot like Universal, and No.9, well I just don't like it as much as 2400. I use 2400 for a a few reasons: You don't have to load "balls to the wall" loads with it, it's not finicky like H110/W296, and I don't have to stock magnum primers. Always use magnum primers with H110/W296. Yes, H110/W296 is what you want for top loads, but if you're not shooting top loads it's definitely NOT what you want. Also I would avoid shooting 125gr bullets, and especially 110gr, with H110/W296. Yes, it's really cool, but it can also lead to flame cutting. Save the H110 for top loads and heavy bullets.

With copper plated bullets, I would use Universal and keep the speed below 1200fps.

In the .40 I avoid No.5 like the plague... maybe I'm just superstitious, but far too many of the Glock kabooms I have seen posted used No.5.

No.7 works BEAUTIFULLY in the .40 and without the big fireball. Universal works equally well, and is also low flash. Both meter great and burn VERY clean.

I've not tried it yet, but SR 4756 is THE powder to use for low flash loads.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

Power Pistol does good for me, I use it with jacketed slugs for most other handgun rounds I load. lot of flash though.
for 'max' loads of jhp .357 158gr I use aa9.
for cast slug practice or 'plinking' loads I use R Dot

 

[MtnCreek]

SR 4756

It burns cleaner than I thought it would in .45 and .40, never tried it in .357. Accuracy is very good in .45 and recoil seems light for velocity. I don't recall flash, so I guess it wasn't a problem.

 

[Walkalong]

Bullet weight has nothing to do with using a standard or mag primer. Powder selection is what determines whether you need a mag primer. W-296/H-110 is an example of a powder that needs mag primers. It also needs to be loaded at max or very near max.

I like Unique for midrange .357 Mag loads. Burns plenty clean at those pressure levels and is accurate.

How well powder burns and how much trash spits out of the cylinder gap depends as much on pressure as it does powder type. Many powders need pressure to be up there to burn clean. They will burn dirty and incompletely at low pressure and very clean at high pressure. HS-6 is a good example of this.

Besides Unique, both the powders you have, W-231 & AA #5 would be another good choice for mid range .357 Loads. I would suggest you consider AA #9 or 2400 for full load .357, as well as the W-296 you have.

 

[JLDickmon]

Ya - I was thinking of trying a VihtaVuori powder as I keep reading that they burn clean.
So, What's the difference between N350 and 3N37? Look close for burn rate.
Is the N350 a little more flexible for other loads? May be okay for my 40S&W loads as well?

they are very close in burn rate, the difference is the type of powder.. single base, double base, porous, coated, etc.

IME, 3N37 works better in smaller capacity cases, (9mm, 40, 45..) and the N350 in larger capacity..
but a lot of properties carry from one to the other..

 

[Keitha]

I really like Unique as well.

 

[41wheelgun]

I have to agree with walkalong, I load my 357mag and 41mag loads with AA#9, very clean and recoil is not as harsh compaired to H110. Also for plinking loads you can use your AA#5.

 

[joneb]

My experience with VihtaVuori powders is next to zero.
I have been on the hunt for a alternative to Unique, the last powder I tried for this quest was AA#5 which I had very good results with.
Now I playing with vv n340 I have yet to find a good load for 44spl with it but I did load up 15 ct .357 mag cases with vv n340;
primer- WSP
bullet- Nosler 158gr JHP
charge- 7.5gr
firearm- Ruger Security Six
Barrel length- 2.75"
guesstimated velocity 1,000 fps
These loads grouped very well less than a 1.25" @15yds off the tailgate.
vv n340 by charge is very close to Unique in load density making a double charge hard to miss.
This maybe of use,
http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/powder.pdf
I am in the process of ordering some cast bullets, I look forward to working with this powder.
In post #4, 3n37 and n350 might fit your needs better than n340.

I loaded up 50ct more of the vv n340 load and the charge bar and scale were set at 7.5gr.

 

[Parks2055]

Thanks JibJab - That chart is great.
Curious to know how you make out with the N340.
Cheers

 

[tkcomer]

Since you can't blast plated bullets at full power loads, why not use the 231 you have? That powder has pretty much all the bases covered in 357.

 

[gamestalker]

Alrighty then. For 38 spcl. about the best powders of those I've tried for any bullet weight, has been HS6 and Longshot. Because conventional revolver cartridges are seated with a firm crimp, you can use slower burning powders such as HS6 and Longshot with super performance in most all aspects.

As to 357 mag., your right on track with H110 or W296 (same powders). But regarding bullet weight, you can comfortably load any weight bullet you desire with no problems. However, regardless of which bullet weight you go with, make sure you use a full and firm roll crimp. I've have managed to avoid problems with a taper crimp, but it must be applied just over the bottom of the canelure to prevent the bullet from jumping out of the case. Magnum cartridges such as .357 produce upward of 35,000 psi with slow burning powders, which is why a firm crimp is of absolute necessity.

And yes, you must use magnum primers if your going to use W296 or H110, period! It doesn't make any difference which bullet weight you go with magnum primers are a must.

And bullet choices are important too. If you load with plated or lead bullets nothng I've said here applies. I have never loaded with lead or plated bullets, but I do know that they don't load the same as jacketed bullet, and especialy so when getting into the big boy powders like W296.

 

[jr_roosa]

I use vvn110 and it is very clean. I shoot it out of a 4" model 19 so I don't really run it very hot. Works ok but I have not tried anythnig else.

J.

 

[BBDartCA]

#9 burns clean but you need a heavy crimp to not have excessive unburnt powder. And use mag primers. For heavy bullets, hard to beat IMR4227.

 

[Hondo 60]

W296/H110
Both are the same powder.
And both are perfectly suited to magnum loads - 357 mag, 41 Mag, 44 mag just to name a few.

I charged up a dozen 44 mag just for giggles.
Used 'em at a Concealed Carry class to show the students.
Those Gallon milk jugs filled with water pealed open like a banana.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like said above, W296/H110 is a great powder but for full power rounds, not middle of the road .357 Magnum rounds. W296/H110 does not like being downloaded and also like said above, it's not the bullet weight that determines if you use a magnum primer or not. That powder is best used with a magnum primer and stiff crimp.

For medium power .357 Magnum loads I like to use a medium burn rate powder. A good powder for what you're looking to do and what I use is HS-6. Again like said above, it will deliver good velocity with lower pressures that other powder in the same burn rate. BUT, if you want to use the powders you already own AA#5 will deliver close to the same results as HS-6, but not exactly the same. W231 will do your .38 Special ammo very well. So. if you want to stick with the 2 powders you're already using for the 40 S&W I think they will fill the bill with the .38/357 loads you want.

The powders that are considered full magnum powder are Lil'Gun, W296/H110, 4227, 2400, AA#9, AA4100, Power Pro 300-MP, Enforcer and the VihtaVouri offerings that I don't know about...

 

[eldon519]

As mentioned, you can't push plated bullets at full-blown magnum velocities if my memory is working correctly. If you are looking for a cheaper alternative than jacketed, I'd recommend trying 158gr or 170-180gr cast bullets. With bullet weights in this range, you can still push max loads without having to worry TOO much about leading. Also tends to be less blast and flash with the heavies.

 

[2zulu1]

One of the benefits of loading the versatile 357 mag is a number of powders work well in a wide variety of bullet weights.

Average factory MV for jacketed 125grs is 1450fps/4" and I'll use this benchmark as a dividing point between light and heavy loads. As an example, an upper end Power Pistol load may be heavy for the powder, it's still a light load for the caliber, ie, 9.5grs @1360fps/4".

Unique, Power Pistol and Universal are very pleasant to shoot and their velocities are in the light load category.

I've found that AA #7 loaded with small pistol primers meets the 1450fps goal for personal defense, it burns cleanly and is very comfortable to shoot. Today's range session will be 200 rounds of this load through a scandium N-frame M327 TRR8 under the bright Arizona sun.

Lyman #47 lists 17.7grs of 2400 as a factory duplication load, but out of a M686P/4" I was getting 1560fps, same with 17.0grs of AA #9. Both powders at these weights chronogrphed w/i a couple of fps of each other with either Winchester or CCI magnum primers. While the Speer reloading manuals have significantly downloaded 2400 over the past 20 years, Sierra has not.

I'm one of those who does not use H110/W296 for 125gr JHPs, significantly more powder (3grs+) than #9 and less velocity between the two weights, plus the flame cutting issue.

VihtaVuori #4 and N110 (small rifle primers recommended) take the mag to their published data to a maximum of 43,500psi; contrast this with Speer's 35,000psi and one sees the necessity of tough constructed revolvers and some common sense handloading procedures. In some loadings using N110 I came across sticky cylinder extraction using lower end VihtaVuori data.

Experimenting with N110/WSR in 140/158gr weights has been very promising, but there are a number of configurations still to run so I haven't formed any conclusions yet; however, N110 is showing faster velocities than H110 with less powder with 140gr/SJHPs.

I'm also experimenting with Lil 'Gun/158s in addition to N110. While H110/W296 have been the corner stone of countless 158gr loads for over decades, I still enjoy experimenting with new powders and combinations.

Having said that, it's hard to improve upon the 2400/173gr Keith bullet combination.

 

[Salmoneye]

Still using 2004 Alliant catalog data with Red Dot for low to medium loads in .357...Great plinker for .38 also...