Cleaning a Shotgun and Mosin-Nagant Help?

[DevilDogNick]

I'm fairly new to owning firearms, though I've grown up around them and have been shooting them my whole life. My problem is that I'm not sure I know how to properly clean them and I was wondering if you all could help me, with as much detail as possible? I own an Mosin-Nagant 91/30 and a Stevens 350 Pump Security 12 gauge. I especially need help with the Nagant because I have military surplus ammo which is corrosive and I've been told will require alot more thorough cleaning. Can I use Windex to clean the bore (in both guns)? Some people tell me I can, and others say I can't. Also, which other parts should I also clean along with cleaning the barrel?

 

[tyeo098]

First off, get some Hoppes #9. They sell it at walmart.
Second, get gun-oil, its right next to the Hoppes.

Hoppes neutralizes the corrosive mercuric salts in surplus ammo.
Run some patches wet with hoppes through it, then brush it about 10 times, then some more wet patches, then a dry patch, then an oil patch.

In addition to the barrel, you should clean any part the cartridge has come in contact with, this includes the chamber, and the bolt face.

The pump I cant help you on... never owned a shotgun been looking though!

 

[MaterDei]

yes, Windex will work if you're just wanting to delay a more thorough cleaning and lubing. Ideally you should follow tyeo098's suggestions.

 

[DevilDogNick]

Thanks guys. One last question, the gun kit that I have comes with something called "rust preventative oil". Is that for both inside the bore and outside? Ive heard that just touching the steel parts of the gun with your fingers can lead to rust?

 

[VT Deer Hunter]

Hey I own a Mosin too and Hoppes #9 is the way to go.

 

[VT Deer Hunter]

OH and you other question it may be for inside I think look online first if you can find anything, and toughing the steel probally wont rust the gun. Maybe if you finger ejected hydrocloric acid yes it would burn through.

 

[matchgradeindustries]

Another great trick for the bore, which I advocate on just about anything, is using a combination of Sweet's 7.62 solvent and hydrogen peroxide. Run a patch through with sweets on a spear jag, let it sit for about five to seven minutes (but no longer), then run several patches through soaked with the hydrogen peroxide. The crap that will come out of your bore will amaze you.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1404/Product/SWEET_S_7_62_BORE_CLEANER

 

[Owen]

devildognick, yes the oil is for inside and outside the bore. fingerprints can cause rust, especially if you have been sweating. Just wipe the gun down with a silicon cloth when you are done handling it, and you'll be fine.

 

[Owen]

oh, and I'd be cautious about the Sweet's 7.62 and the hydrogen peroxide. Sweet's has ammonia in it. ammonia and hydrogen peroxide are both very reactive chemicals.

Any chemists have input on that? a web search indicates that under some conditions, a poisonous gas can be produced

 

[matchgradeindustries]

Good looking out. Use that in a fume hood if you have access to one, or at the very least in a well ventilated area. Every time I clean my bench gun I always come out of it feeling a little stupider.

Works like a charm, though.

 

[tyeo098]

Youre thinking ammonia and bleach (chlorine).

Thats the recipe for Mustard Gas

However, when you mix Ammonia NH4 and Peroxide H2O2, you get:

N2 (Nitrogen Gas)
H2O (Dihydrogen monoxide aka Water )
aaaaaaaaand
NO (Nitrous Oxide, aka NOS, or laughing gas)

Harmless stuff.

 

[DevilDogNick]

Thanks for the help guys! I'll be sure to pick up some hoppes and sweets.

 

[Jim Watson]

Hoppes neutralizes the corrosive mercuric salts in surplus ammo.

Wrong on multiple counts.

Mercuric priming compounds have not been used for many decades and are unlikely to be found in any but the very oldest surplus.
Mercuric priming compounds are not corrosive to steel (although the elemental mercury left behind is destructive to brass) unless they also contain chlorates... which many did.
Hoppes does not neutralize the corrosive salt (potassium chloride) from chlorate primers.
Nothing "neutralizes" the corrosive (chloride) salts, they are already neutral.

The only reliable way to deal with corrosive primers is with water. You can dress it up with Windex or peroxide or emulsifiable oil, but it is the water that dissolves the potassium chloride. Then dry and oil.

The research that showed what the problem was with newfangled smokeless ammunition came out in a paper titled "Corrosion Under Oil Films." So wash your surplus gun.

There is no need to water clean a shotgun fired with shells newer than the shooter.
The primers are noncorrosive and all you are doing is removing soot and plastic wad residue.


Read the instructions on the Sweet's. It is recommended not to mix it with other stuff and not to leave it in the barrel more than a few minutes.
The peroxide blends are aggressive cleaners of tough fouling. If not handled just right they can be aggressive to the barrel, too.

 

[Navy_Guns]

So the big meanie lurking in my corrosive surplus ammo is the same crap in the blue shaker I use as a "salt substitute" when I make bean soup? Maybe next time I'll "kick it up a notch" and just shoot the crock pot with my Mosin Nagant...

 

[tyeo098]

Wrong on multiple counts.

Mercuric priming compounds have not been used for many decades and are unlikely to be found in any but the very oldest surplus.
Mercuric priming compounds are not corrosive to steel (although the elemental mercury left behind is destructive to brass) unless they also contain chlorates... which many did.
Hoppes does not neutralize the corrosive salt (potassium chloride) from chlorate primers.
Nothing "neutralizes" the corrosive (chloride) salts, they are already neutral.

The only reliable way to deal with corrosive primers is with water. You can dress it up with Windex or peroxide or emulsifiable oil, but it is the water that dissolves the potassium chloride. Then dry and oil.

The research that showed what the problem was with newfangled smokeless ammunition came out in a paper titled "Corrosion Under Oil Films." So wash your surplus gun.

There is no need to water clean a shotgun fired with shells newer than the shooter.
The primers are noncorrosive and all you are doing is removing soot and plastic wad residue.


Read the instructions on the Sweet's. It is recommended not to mix it with other stuff and not to leave it in the barrel more than a few minutes.
The peroxide blends are aggressive cleaners of tough fouling. If not handled just right they can be aggressive to the barrel, too.

I... wut?

They're not mercuric salts, I got that wrong, theyre mercury-based primers.

But I got to hand it to you, thats the first time Ive heard the same compound be called corrosive AND neutral in the same sentence

Last heard of KClO3 was in the Frankford Arsenal Potassium Chlorate and Antimony Sulfide, thats what left the KCl in the bore. Those were discontinued in the ~1950's
But modern berdan primers use Potassium PERchlorate, which decomposes into O2 and KCl.

But alas, I digress. (always wanted to say that)
Hoppes says right on the bottle "neutralizes corrosive salts" go pick one up and read it,

 

[Jim Watson]

I confess I am not up to date on Communist surplus ammunition.
Since they use a lot of steel cases and do not figure on reloading anyhow, mercuric primers which the US Army discontinued in 1898 would not be a problem. Mercury emissions might be something for the user to worry about in an era when lead based primers and bullets are under attack.
I have not heard of perchlorate in lieu of chlorate in primers, either. That is a HOT product.

Do you have a source of specifications or analysis of those primers?

The Hoppe's label is BS.

The corrosive residue from chlorate (or perchlorate) primers is potassium chloride, KCl.
That is what is known as a neutral salt, the product of reaction between a strong acid and a strong base. A KCl solution is at or very near pH 7 which is as neutral as you can get. So you cannot neutralize it in a chemical sense.

Maybe they mean "neutralize" in a dictionary sense of "render harmless."
Depending on that strikes me as risky.
Hoppe's main ingredients on the MSDS are kerosine and alcohol.
KCl is not much soluble in either.
So you would be depending on it flushing out the salt physically.

Remember that old report "Corrosion Under Oil Films."

Actually it is all academic to me, shooting surplus ammo in surplus rifles with hard steel buttplates is not my idea of fun.
I do shoot BPCR and even though potassium carbonate is not nearly as corrosive as potassium chloride, I clean with Windex, dry, and oil at the range. Then reclean at home with M-Pro 7 which is itself a detergent mix rather than an oily solvent.