Cleanse water with household tools.

[Lucky]

Just putting this out there, because I'm curious what people would do.

I read about a French man who theorized, and then proved that it is possible to drin ocean water and live, but this was ordinary ocean water, not swamp water and septic water.

So how would you people cleanse water to drink, without gas or electricity?

I'd be leaning towards making a whole bunch of solar stills, either the type that use a hose to transfer the vapour between 2 containers, or the ones that have 1 container inside the other.

But I was thinking about making a sedimentation filter, like they showed at camp. Where you fill a garbage can with layers of dirt and sand and gravel, and pour dirty water in the top and it comes out the bottom clear.

But such a filter would be REALLY great if you could find some way to put activated charcoal into it. Anyone know much about activated charcoal, whether it will purify water, and how it could be crudely made?

Also, about iodine, anyone know if you can put the stuff you put on cuts into your water, or have guidelines on concentrations?

 

[Moondoggie]

I've got a Brita Water Pitcher or two stored in the basement with some sealed pkgs of filters. If the water was really cruddy and I couldn't boil it, I'd run it through a coffee filter before the Brita filter to help extend the filter life.

After the Brita filter I'd add a few drops of bleach per gallon and let it sit for at least 1/2 hour before drinking.

 

[hso]

You can filter water with sand and diatomaceous earth to take out solids, but it won't help with water contaminated with bacteria, cysts, or chemicals. You should let it settle first and then pour through the filter pack.

Bleach and iodine work with bacteria. 2 drops bleach per quart. If you don't have a dropper, add bleach until the water smells slightly like chlorinated pool water, let sit for 30 minutes, stir vigerously and smell again. If it still smells slightly like chlorinated pool water it is safe to drink. If not repeat until it does. Use 5 drops of tincture of iodine per quart of water. The problem with both of these is that it isn't effective against cryptosporidium.

Boiling is the best method if you're dealing with contaminated surface water like in NOLA.

Distilation works well, but isn't very effective in producing practical quantities of drinking/cooking water.

If you just can't boil then the most effective chemical treatment is Katadyn's Micropu treatment tablets. They are more effective than either bleach or iodine.

 

[odysseus]

Basically what hso is saying here.

You can filter for sediment easily with natural sources of sand and charcoal after letting it sit for awhile, but you won't get turbidity out well and you won't stop microorganism contamination. It takes .02 micron filters to do great work of that from untrusted sources. And that doesn't solve viruses, just only the common stuff in North America.

Without something on that filter level, you could use cloth with sand clay and whatnot to eliminate as much turpidity as you can, but you will need to boil if no chems are around. If you can, chlorine and sit time. Be sure too the colder the temp the longer it needs to sit. Sometimes upwards of 4 to 8 hours for large amounts. Also iodine is a weaker antibiotic for water and some bugs now resist it well, so sit time is very long too. Also consuming iodine in this mode for extended periods of time is not advised.

Solar stills and bioling for still, are very difficult to manage, maintain, and process. You need a lot of time. But they do work. You need to find fuel to heat when chem and a good filter are unavailable for sterilization. Distilling is very impracticle for surviving, but works as an augment to a base camp situation with other sources of clean water.

As far as ocean water, only distilling or reverse-osmosis will work. You cannot survive on salt water or filter it out through normal means. You need water to eliminate the salt you are drinking. It's a downward spiral to a painful death. It can aid in keeping you cool and clean...

On that brita discussion. Don't rely on this. Brita is made to clean tap water. The assumption is to filter it for better taste and some mild elimination of some chemical residues. You will clog it up in a second, AND it doesn't stop microorganisms. Your chemical plan after that is weakened since you haven't filtered squat biotically. If you get sick in the pants, well now you are in deadly serious trouble. Since you are planning for this, get a real filter kit from any mountaineering supplier.

 

[Lucky]

Yes, a real filter kit I must get, but the $200 price scares me away! I wanted to be cheap and buy one of those filter-straws, but I'll save up for a good filter.

Otherwise, my understanding is that distilling water through vapourization and condensation is the cleanest method, with boiling the next cleanest. Not counting filters, which some are better than boiling, some worse. So if you occupy a flat-roofed multi-story building you ought be able to set up many stills, working on the presumption that 1 sq ft could yield 100ml on a sunny day. Also if you have drum-shaped objects their entire surface area works, so they would be more efficient.

About drinking sea-water, ordinary sea water, http://www.logicsouth.com/~lcoble/bible/sea1.html I didn't know you could either until I saw a small article in the newspaper. Sadly I think this article was a eulogy for the man who discovered this, though I do not remember clearly.

While good to know, this doesn't help when you have thousands of dead bodies in your water supply.

Thank you for the new words, as well! I looked up 'diatomaceous' but I am confused as to whether it means that the earth is like silica, or whether the earth is infested with diatomes, or if the earth is like silica, which is formed by dead unicellular organisms?

And I looked up Turbid too, just means cloudy, right?

 

[odysseus]

And I looked up Turbid too, just means cloudy, right?

Basically yes. The question when you are talking about drinking water is what is it turbid with? If it is tannins like iced tea from leaves, you probably will be okay. If it is chemicals or nasty organics like cow crap or agricultural run off, well bad news.

Also chemical sterlization is hampered as you increase turpidity. The more solid matter possible in the water, the longer the chemwork needs to be applied to make sure bugs are cleaned.

As far as distilling, it is clean. Again the question is about real output you can manage. So try it. Try making a basic boiling or even solar still and see if that output is something you can manage. Anyway - you also need portability since you are assuming a good water source is nearby and you need to transport it back to your still.

It's good you are thinking about this. Water is life.

 

[Lucky]

Yes, I rented the video in our library on survival skills in the desert, and it touched on reclaiming water. They showed you can tie a plastic bag around a leafy tree branch, or the solar still techniques. And I downloaded the army field-manual on survival evasion and escape, and it has so much information I haven't finished it yet.

Last time I went camping for 1 day I brought a 4L jug and went through it all easily in a couple hours, when I went to brush my teeth and wash the dirt off my face at night I was down to 1L, and I'd only arrived at 5:00pm. Getting the firewood and constructing simple things really took it out of me (plus I couldn't strip down because of mosquitos and other insects).


What stage of filtration would you reccommend for washing water, water to use for cleaning the exterior of your body, assuming that it will get into your eyes and other openings?

Humourously, where I am outdoors activity in the mountains is commonplace, and the nickname for cryptosporidium is 'Beaver Fever'.

 

[odysseus]

If you use generally clean water for cleaning yourself and items, you don't need to use sterilized water for this. If you are in generally good health, your body does a pretty good with this through eyes, ears, etc. It's ingestion that you need to be wary about. I have had good experience with this, but the sources I used to clean were pretty good.

Your comments are telling. If you are on the move and physical, you are going to need a good amount of water to stay functional and alert.

 

[coylh]

http://www.equipped.org/pp/pic532.htm

 

[NMshooter]

Water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink. Or something like that.

Katadyne is your friend, when I get the money I am going to upgrade from my Sweetwater filter.

FM 21-76 is a good manual, you will get a lot out of it. Hardcopy, however, does not require electricity.

I would rather drink boiled water with some dirt in it than clean water chock full of virii and bacteria.

Non potable water is OK for washing the outside of your body, especially if you are using soap. You need potable water for brushing teeth.

Kool Aid and similar instant beverages are very useful for hiding that chlorine or iodine taste.

 

[asteffes]

MSR WaterWorks EX. $139.95. Get one from REI, and several bottles of iodine tablets while you're at it.

http://www.msrcorp.com/filters/waterworks_ex.asp

-Adam

 

[Lucky]

Great stuff, thanks all!

I wasn't really thinking about eyes, truthfully I'm sort of jittery about a urinary tract infection, if you get my drift.

About the soap, I bring a little bar from a hotel, but the problem is it's always scented. I also bought a tube of biodegradable camping soap, but I've never used it.

If you don't have soap is there something you could use to clean with, ashes or pine needles or something?

 

[AStone]

Quite a relevant question, as we're learning from those trying to survive Katrina.

#1 requirement for life: O2.
#2: H2O (much less life threatening if it's clean)
#3: thermoregulation (warmer than cold, but cooler than scortching)
#4: food
#5: sex

This filter ain't exactly a "household" tool, but it should be given the times we live in. Should be in every suburban bug out bag.

I've used a very similar one (PUR) for backpacking for several years. Fast, light, & small. It replaced a Katadin which lasted for a decade, but was slow, heavy, & large.

If the SHTF permanently, as this one wears out, i hopefully learn more ancient techniques that are less high tech ... or else hope that my immune system can deal with what's in la agua... {can you spell cholera?}

 

[odysseus]

http://www.equipped.org/pp/pic532.htm

You ever price one of these out? I think they are around $1500.00. Good for boat emergencies in the ocean when you might get stranded. It's reverse osmosis, manual pump.

 

[thorn726]

They showed you can tie a plastic bag around a leafy tree branch,

awesome! ! i have never heard that, wont forget it.

 

[c_yeager]

I think that a lot of this isnt going to be useful for the situation in NO. These filters are made for filtering impure water that is essentially clear. The water that is currently circulating around the area is likely to be the consistency of a watery mud, try cramming that through a fine filtration system. Using Chlorine and boiling is effective against biological pollutants, but it does little for chemical pollution (which the water is going to be chock full of). I really think the only safe bet is going to be distillation.

 

[AStone]

I think that a lot of this isnt going to be useful for the situation in NO. These filters are made for filtering impure water that is essentially clear. The water that is currently circulating around the area is likely to be the consistency of a watery mud, try cramming that through a fine filtration system.

good point. this is precisely why i left the southern US decades ago, never to return.

now, even the cities i live in have: 1) no hurricane issues; 2) cleaner mountain origin streams flowing through them.

 

[odysseus]

I think that a lot of this isnt going to be useful for the situation in NO. These filters are made for filtering impure water that is essentially clear. The water that is currently circulating around the area is likely to be the consistency of a watery mud, try cramming that through a fine filtration system. Using Chlorine and boiling is effective against biological pollutants, but it does little for chemical pollution (which the water is going to be chock full of). I really think the only safe bet is going to be distillation.

Actually it is how skilled you are in operating through this. You need to do the basics of letting things sit, and PRE filtering before filtering, and having a filter that is cleanable (most are).

Yes - also the assumption is you are working through some water you can trust. You should not think collecting water in a standing pool by the oil changer shop is advisable. Chemicals are your worst enemy with these.

Distillations is a great source of water. Again, it is a base camp solution that requires a lot of time, or a lot of fuel. If you need to be mobile, it's not going to be too useful.

 

[Lucky]

I'm going to start experimenting with how much water can be made with certain surface areas, it's an experiment I can afford. (distillation)

 

[Boats]

Here is a repost of my thoughts from the Bug out thread nearby.

When I was thinking about the pocket filter I posted about, I was really more in the mode of assuming that I wouldn't want to drink filtered floodwater in NO, but rather, what I could already do in a place like Mississippi, where fresh water would be more readily available and only somewhat suspect.

To drink NO's flood water, I'd want a four pronged approach to the problem and at least a couple of people to do the work.

First layer would be the pocket filter I posted about earlier, for its high filter endurance, ability to take out microscopic crawlies and bacteria, with good out put. As noted, it won't do anything for petroleum distillates.

Looks like I need to buy an AC capable filter now as well. The water derived from my Katadyn would then be put through this hand-pumped filtration system. Activated charcoal removes many volatile organic compounds from the water. The problem with most AC systems is that while they remove a lot of foul tasting stuff, they usually do a crummy job of removing microscopic biological contaminants, pesticides, and do nothing for any heavy metals. The reason I do not own an AC filter now is that freshwater is abundant in Oregon and usually doesn't have cars, refineries, or oil storage tanks sitting in it.

So the third step is something I need to get a second example of. The Katadyn Survivor 35 is something I have on a boat I have an ownership interest in. It is a hand operated reverse osmosis desalinator. It can take on seawater straight up. Even on freshwater, it would remove heavy metal contaminants and pesticides from the water. I gotta get another one of these as I am 55 miles from the one I already own. I could probably get by just using a Survivor 35 against all contaminants, but RO systems clog too easily for general use where silt or other semi-solid contaminants are going to fill pores. So using other products as pre-filters would take the pressure off of this system and keep it useable longer. Another point: This filter is horrifically expensive, but what's your life worth?

Last step would be water treatment tablets to throw into the finished product just to take the belt and suspenders approach.

I do think I could make sweet water out of the NO flood waters with all of the above equipment, and combined the three filters and some tablets would weigh less than one or so gallons of water carried around.

As for the cost of the Survivor 35--Right now, I only own about a third of the total cost for a split expense sail boat. However, I can see buying one personally. Some people have rifle/scope combos that easily exceed that. Some people have 1911s that are more expensive than the $1500-1800 the Survivor costs. Fighting over water or spending all of your day looking for it in a crisis seems more expensive in other ways. It is a way more portable and less tempermental than any distillation set-up too.

However, most people who face short term water problems in urbanized areas aren't usually sitting in a lake of filth. The more common situation by far is swamped municipal pumping stations that throw contaminated water into the drinking water system, or swamped waste water treatment that contaminates back into the system and threatens communities downstream. Then there is the the old broken water main, which cuts delivery, but is usually still delivering suspect water to an accessible place. Heck, you might just want to filter any deposits out of the water already in your hot water tank. It is funny how most people never think that they already store 40-100 gallons of freshwater in their garage all day every day. Just turn off the supply and discharge lines if you have adequate warning. In earthquake zones, strap it to the wall.

One could very easily get by in most suspect fresh water crises short of something like NOLA, with relatively inexpensive hand pump filtering designed for expedition length back country use.

 

[LaVere]

How to purfiy water.

http://www.vdh.state.va.us/dw/boil_water_procedures_cons.asp


I thought one had to boil for 10 minutes but latest info says just 1 minute if it is a full boil. 3 to 5 might be better. I like the boil method best.

 

[Boats]

I ruled out boiling for several reasons:

It requires your to stay fixed for the duration of the boiling op and requires more set-up and tear down time.
Someone might want your boiling set-up and it is harder to snatch up and defend than a pump.
Building a fire in waist deep water is going to be a challenge to say the least.
Fuel is going to be very limited.
The authorities on the dry ground in NOLA at least are discouraging the use of open flame.

To me, hand pumping has it all over boiling in a crisis.

 

[Ivy Mike]

I have another thought.

Could one mix a small quantity of grain alcohol into water to kill the little nasties? Not enough to cause dehydration or intoxication, but maybe an ounce per gallon.

 

[odysseus]

Could one mix a small quantity of grain alcohol into water to kill the little nasties? Not enough to cause dehydration or intoxication, but maybe an ounce per gallon.

I don't have numbers, but I am sure research on this will show that the amount of grain alcohol needed to combat the dilution from the water you are trying to disinfect and\or also the sit time too to disinfect will not work for the bugs we are talking about.

Most of all the research on proper compounds and amounts are out there to get. These are pretty lab tested proven.

 

[odysseus]

I thought one had to boil for 10 minutes but latest info says just 1 minute if it is a full boil. 3 to 5 might be better. I like the boil method best.

Also depends on altitude. Someone in Denver, CO needs more time than Miami, Florida. 1 min minimum, a little longer for measure. These are good numbers for those people needing to conserve fuel.