Close the Loophole???

[MagnumDweeb]

Just saw this on Fox News of all places, had McCain supporting closing the loophole. Here's this one page website: http://www.closetheloophole.org/mai...wStaticContent&screenKey=cmpSplash&s=loophole

I mean come on, are we really back to this. Have the Bradys lost so much credibility they are using an incident that happened eleven years ago to shut down our rights to deal with our own private property as we see fit. Is there any validity to this or need to worry, or is this just another impotent attempt the antis.

 

[MagnumDweeb]

Sorry, it's actually just a face page, you can go to the real website through it.

And how does 87% of gun owners support destroying our right over our private property.

 

[merlinfire]

Personally I think requiring a background check to enter a gun show would be fine. Disallowing private sales altogether would not be fine. Let's be serious here for a second, and cut all the politics. If I am a criminal, I know that currently, most/all gun shows don't require a background check to enter. I also know that Joe Blow doesn't know how to perform one. So I buy it from him while he's walking around. If he asks if I can legally own one, all I gotta do is lie.

Sure, based on DoJ numbers it accounts for relatively few of the guns used by criminals. But a background check (maybe even just a once a year check would be sufficient) would be fine in my eyes and would keep some of the riffraff out of the gun shows.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Sure, based on DoJ numbers it accounts for relatively few of the guns used by criminals. But a background check (maybe even just a once a year check would be sufficient) would be fine in my eyes and would keep some of the riffraff out of the gun shows.

You gotta be kidding me......

 

[Deanimator]

Personally I think requiring a background check to enter a gun show would be fine.

That's despicable AHSA nonsense.

I don't need a background check to go into an actual gun store.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I don't need a background check to go into an actual gun store.

LOL, can you see the line to pass a NICS check to get into Wal Mart?

Seriously, we are to the point where people are suggesting a background check to go into a public place..... I'm amazed. What can you even say to such a thing.

 

[rklessdriver]

I think most people don't see this PLOY for what it is.... An end around to further CONTROL.

McCain is a pathetic excuse of a politican and nothing more. If your looking to him for direction in protecting YOUR rights... You are in serious trouble.

Everyone likes to throw out the "I'm not a criminal, are you?" and "What do you have to hide" routine. A firearm is private property. Those that are in my possession are MINE and I'd prefer to sell my PROPERTY as I see fit.

Since no one can tie private firearms sales to a signifigant amount of CRIMINAL activity, Don't think for one min that the Anti's haven't been doing (and twisting) the research in the past years (if they had anything other than conjecture and outright lies they would have published it by now) closing the "LOOPHOLE" serves no purpose other than to further Govt intrusion into a private citizens private business.

For me this is a simple preference to keep my business - my business and not the Govt's.

BTW - This must be a "Coordinated Attack" by the Bradys and/or SPLC and/or VPC becasue I heard a blurb on the radio news this morning about how "Parents of the murdered Virgina Tech students" were doing something to "close the gun show loophole". Interesting since it played no part in those killings and infact, it was a failure of the Govt's background check system as to how he was able to legally buy those firearms in the first place. Now they advocate further implimentation of the very background check system that made no difference.....
Will

 

[Deanimator]

Indeed, it's just another scam by Brady and VPC, with their shills from AHSA running interference.

The good news is that it's no more likely to gain any traction than any of their other 10,000,000,000 lies.

This is going to be an electoral Cannae for the Democrats in November as it is. How many blue dog Democrats are going to throw themselves into a woodchipper for gun control, having already thrown themselves onto their swords for the healthcare bill? Not too many, I'd wager.

 

[lab28143]

77% of people believe statistics just because there is a percentage in it.
83% of all percentages are made up on the spot.

Obviously the people in charge of this website are playing by these rules.
85% of gun owners support closing the loophole??? Really??? Ugh such crap

 

[Wolfebyte]

the web site is created by the mayors against illegal guns..


did you expect anything less on their web site? Politicians.. if their lips are moving, they are lying ...

 

[kostyanj]

For those of you who are opposed to background checks before buying at a gun show, how would it hinder your gun show experience? Maybe not require them before entering, but certainly before buying a gun. You get a NICS every time you buy from a gun store, so what's the difference?

 

[Keauxbi]

But a background check (maybe even just a once a year check would be sufficient) would be fine in my eyes

Why are you willing to give up your right to privacy for the veil of keeping guns out of the hands of "riffraff"? Virginia Tech happened because Seung-Hui Cho passed background checks not because he found a loophole at a gun show. The question is do we restrict gun ownership more OR do we allow citizens to adequately defend themselves?

 

[One-Time]

I am shocked by some replies here...SHOCKED!

There is NO 'gun show loophole' its all BS conjured by the left to further control firearms, and whats worse is anyone alledgedly freedom loving supporting this absurdity!

 

[Deanimator]

For those of you who are opposed to background checks before buying at a gun show, how would it hinder your gun show experience? Maybe not require them before entering, but certainly before buying a gun. You get a NICS every time you buy from a gun store, so what's the difference?

Purchases from dealers at gun shows require a background check.

Most of my guns were purchased face to face in private sales. No NICS AT ALL. Would you require a NICS check for me to purchase a gun from a friend in my living room?

Would you require a NICS check INSIDE a gun show, but NOT in the parking lot of Bob Evans up the street? If not, what's the point of a background check for a private sale INSIDE the gun show?

Unless you want to ban ALL private sales, what you appear to want is an utter waste of time. THAT would be a waste of time too, but at least it would be a consistent, honest waste of time.

All of this is merely steps along the way to banning ALL private sales. The answer is NO.

 

[One-Time]

^THIS!!!^

 

[ArmedBear]

I do think that one should have to be tested for excess body odor, in order to enter a gun show.

 

[One-Time]

A much better idea is to put criminals away or enforce existing laws, Im tired of laws designed to effect criminals that in reality only effect law abiding people

 

[Wahoo95]

While I don't believe in giving upanymore of my rights, I'm also not gonna put my head in the sand and say they illegal guns sales don't take place at guns shows. That's what tha're referring to as the "Loophole". The problem is that those same illegal transactions can and do take place in other places as well, so getting rid of the gun shows will not fix the problem.

 

[General Geoff]

We should be working to repeal existing mandatory background checks, not working towards more of them.

 

[ArmedBear]

What Geoff said.

Also, consider the effects this could have.

Criminals typically can't pass background checks. Criminals want weapons to commit violent crime. Like a professional mechanic who pays 3 times what I do for a wrench, because he wants a good wrench and he earns his living with it, a professional violent criminal will pay a lot of money for a gun.

What does that mean? If a gun is worth more on the black market, then it is more profitable to steal guns and sell them. That means that more thieves will be willing to take higher risks. That, in turn, means that the likelihood of a burglar in YOUR house, willing to shoot you and your family, goes up.

Criminals get guns anyway (see stats from England, where "gun crime" has gone up markedly since their gun laws have become more restrictive). So, personally, I'd just as soon eliminate background checks. I don't need to be checked, and the guy who does, finds another way to get a gun. All these things do is create more government jobs that accomplish nothing, and increase the risk of someone breaking into our homes.

 

[One-Time]

^ +1 ^ Im amazed how many gun owners welcome more chains of bondage as opposed to shedding them

 

[Old Fuff]

For those of you who are opposed to background checks before buying at a gun show, how would it hinder your gun show experience? Maybe not require them before entering, but certainly before buying a gun. You get a NICS every time you buy from a gun store, so what's the difference?

The big difference, which the anti's never mention, is that private sellers can't make NICS background checks.

NICS background checks can only be made by Federally Licensed Gun Dealers (FFL), and then only when selling or transfering a firearm.

Even the police, not to mention gun show operators, are not allowed to make background checks through NICS.

What the anti's want is to force ALL FIREARMS SALES AND TRANSFERS to be made through FFL dealers using #4473 forms. Their dream of total control cannot ever happen so long as there is a private seller market that doesn't leave a paper trail. The obvious place to start is at gun shows, but if they succeed that would only be a start.

According to both ATF&E and the FBI, the principal sources for criminals to obtain guns is through they're own black market - mostly fed through stolen guns, or straw buyers at both retailers and gun shows. In the latter case NICS background checks are made, but don't usually stop the transaction.

As has been pointed out, this "loophole" isn't about controling criminal access to guns, it's about eventually controling YOUR access to them.

Some people really need to wake up. :banghead:

 

[Ronsch]

So, in keeping with this line of logic...

Maybe a background check should be run on anyone entering a bank...Just in case the customer has an armed robbery conviction or other criminal charge.
Maybe a background check should be run on anyone entering a retail store...Just in case the customer has a shoplifting or theft conviction.
Maybe a background check should be run on anyone buying a car...Just in case the customer has a DWI conviction or other vehicular criminal charge.

Where does it stop?

 

[22-rimfire]

I believe this is part of the Bloomburg thing. It has been around. I guess OK City and Columbine HS anniversary dates are about now. I prefer to remember the Branch Dividians and Ruby Ridge anniversaries where individual rights were trampled by the federal government.

Most of my guns were purchased face to face in private sales. No NICS AT ALL. Would you require a NICS check for me to purchase a gun from a friend in my living room?

They would infact want you to have a background check done prior to buying a firearm in your living room from a friend. I know in PA, to transfer a handgun, the transfer must be made through a FFL dealer except in the case of close family. I assume there are other states that have the same sort of requirement. I don't like it much.

The big difference, which the anti's never mention, is that private sellers can't make NICS background checks.

That's correct, so a new requirement would work within the existing framework and force face to face or private party sales through a FFL dealer who would charge a fee for the effort.

I'm totally against this. I was totally against the change in PA since I grew up there. I've said this before, but I'll repeat... when I would comment that I didn't agree with the change in PA or for that matter a future change for private sales in general, I was painted as a person who wanted criminals to be able to buy firearms. And THAT was from firearm forum members. Made no sense to me at all unless they felt I didn't belong in their little gun click.

I have not seen any statistics on this, but I would be willing to guess that the majority of Americans are comfortable with the NICs check and would probably support a NICs check requirement for all private firearm sales. Again, I don't like giving up my rights.

Forget John McCain. He is no friend of gun rights supporters. He is an appeaser.

 

[merlinfire]

I am kind of surprised at some of these responses. The difference between needing an NICS to walk into Walmart or a gun shop is that you don't enter those places expecting dozens if not hundreds of people walking around, willing to sell their guns, with no background check. I'm not pro-gun control in the traditional sense, but opposing common sense laws that prevent those people who legally cannot own guns from obtaining them is the classical sense of playing a full court press, consequences be damned.

Sure, buying from someone walking around in a gun show is just a private sale, but in no other place can you expect to have private sellers at the numbers or variety as you will in a gun show. Having a one a year screen isn't onerous.