Graphite is known to have a galvanic reaction with aluminum. Never use graphite based lubes on aluminum.Galvanic corrosion
CLP brand lube blamed for jams in Iraq
- Thread starter ElToro
- Start date
- Status
Ok, I'm going to try a balancing act here. I don't mean to impugn the soldiers who are having trouble, but on the other hand, I think it's silly to blame the lube.
Weren't Jessica Lynch and her crew in some sort of a maintenance/supply convoy? As such, they are carrying weapons but don't really expect to have to use them.
I suspect that the individuals who are planning to use their rifles regularly are more careful about maintenance than those who aren't. I suspect that they have much less trouble with malfunctions.
ANY liquid lube will attract sand. If the sandy lube isn't removed (the weapon cleaned) regularly, you're going to have troubles. To suggest that one liquid lube attracts more sand than another is ludicrous.
Weren't Jessica Lynch and her crew in some sort of a maintenance/supply convoy? As such, they are carrying weapons but don't really expect to have to use them.
I suspect that the individuals who are planning to use their rifles regularly are more careful about maintenance than those who aren't. I suspect that they have much less trouble with malfunctions.
ANY liquid lube will attract sand. If the sandy lube isn't removed (the weapon cleaned) regularly, you're going to have troubles. To suggest that one liquid lube attracts more sand than another is ludicrous.
I remember that most of the guys I knew who went into the region, said they cleaned their weapons several times a day if time allowed.
I have to call up my family members who were in Vietnam, and ask how many times they cleaned... I do remember one saying he did it all the time.
All of them were in the Marines and Army.
Hmmm... this topic has really got me interested. I want to know more.
Anyone else with info.? Personal experiences?
I've always been told to clean, clean, clean. Then clean some more.
Is it possible to clean too much? Just wondering.
I have to call up my family members who were in Vietnam, and ask how many times they cleaned... I do remember one saying he did it all the time.
All of them were in the Marines and Army.
Hmmm... this topic has really got me interested. I want to know more.
Anyone else with info.? Personal experiences?
I've always been told to clean, clean, clean. Then clean some more.
Is it possible to clean too much? Just wondering.
bountyhunter
member
I guess I don't see how they are lying. They posted a story that was flattering to their product which they did not write and believed to be true. How is that lying?
And Militec is giving free samples to anybody who asks. They sent me samples.
They alse are giving $$$ to veterans in way of huge discounts on their products. First time I tried to order some, I had filled out the form and my computer crashed so I just blew it off until the next day and figured I'd try again later.
Next day there was an e-mail from Militec saying they had gotten the form but no order, and wanted to know if I needed help placing an order. They were corteous and addressed me by rank, and were going out of their way to sell me their goods at half off the list price. I don't see how these guys rate bad mouthing as being anti American or unpatriotic.
JimJD, in regard to your request on cleaning rifles in Nam, I was in the infantry there 68-69 4th INF DIV. The powder had been changed back to Dupont powder, we had LSA for lubricating the bolt and our bolts were chrome plated. We tried to clean our 16's as often as possible and there were times we could not. My rifle never jammed and at one point, many rounds were put through it. Byron
clubsoda22
member
I'd think the 1911's would need a lot of cleaning in nam....one grain of sand in your barrel bushing will F your day up.
Militec
I have dealt with and spoken with the partners at Militech. One of them is retired military who did two tours in Viet Nam. We know some of the same territory. They both impressed me as gentlemen and patriots. When I tried to buy the wrtong product, they both told me I should not spend my money on the wrong apllication.
They had a chance to take my money and refused it. Now, I carry their products and am proud both of the product and my association with other veterans who hold scruples above profits.
I have dealt with and spoken with the partners at Militech. One of them is retired military who did two tours in Viet Nam. We know some of the same territory. They both impressed me as gentlemen and patriots. When I tried to buy the wrtong product, they both told me I should not spend my money on the wrong apllication.
They had a chance to take my money and refused it. Now, I carry their products and am proud both of the product and my association with other veterans who hold scruples above profits.
sm
member
clubsoda22,
I don't know how familar you are with the 1911, the history of its testing before being chosen as sidearm for troops. I'm not sure if you are familar with Larry Vickers.
I Have done much testing on a personal note of my 1911 styles that I CCW. Including the "Sand Test".
------
Excerpt from Larry Vickers:
http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3132&highlight=Sand+Test
"Test consisted of placing each pistol loaded in a Bianchi GI field holster inside a plastic bag with approx 2 cups of fine/medium grit sand ( North Carolina type). Then the bag was shaken vigorously for 10 seconds while holding onto the pistol butt for safety. The pistol was then taken out and 3 mags were fired through the 1911..."
---------
I have those I know that served in Many conflicts, of more recent Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm...all these persons carried and used the 1911 style.
Many enviroments besides sand.
I also know many that shoot in sandy conditions, as some of the persons whom attend various training schools.
The common theme is Proper Inspection, Maintenance, condusive to the enviroment. Like shooting is 90% individual, 10% equipement.
I'm personally offended by many companies and their marketing. I do not do business as that is MY choice. It IS MY responsibilty to test my CCWs and any and all other SD firearms , I inspect, maintain as need.
Part of my responsibility IMO is to test my firearms for myself. That is why I PROPERLY lube my firearms and test in sand, mud, snow, freezing rain...
"One never knows the where or when of next encounter"-[CRSam].
I know my guns will fire weak-handed, upside down, sideways ( eject port up OR down) like if I'm hit and need to shoot under a vehicle.
It ain't ONE particular brand of anything. The Reality is The 1911 style has been running a lot longer than many cleaning and lubrication companies have been in business.
IMNSHO
Not to mention the money used for trying every new product that comes down the pike is better spent on ammo, and training...this is what allows one to survive...not what flavor of lube of the month.
I don't know how familar you are with the 1911, the history of its testing before being chosen as sidearm for troops. I'm not sure if you are familar with Larry Vickers.
I Have done much testing on a personal note of my 1911 styles that I CCW. Including the "Sand Test".
------
Excerpt from Larry Vickers:
http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3132&highlight=Sand+Test
"Test consisted of placing each pistol loaded in a Bianchi GI field holster inside a plastic bag with approx 2 cups of fine/medium grit sand ( North Carolina type). Then the bag was shaken vigorously for 10 seconds while holding onto the pistol butt for safety. The pistol was then taken out and 3 mags were fired through the 1911..."
---------
I have those I know that served in Many conflicts, of more recent Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm...all these persons carried and used the 1911 style.
Many enviroments besides sand.
I also know many that shoot in sandy conditions, as some of the persons whom attend various training schools.
The common theme is Proper Inspection, Maintenance, condusive to the enviroment. Like shooting is 90% individual, 10% equipement.
I'm personally offended by many companies and their marketing. I do not do business as that is MY choice. It IS MY responsibilty to test my CCWs and any and all other SD firearms , I inspect, maintain as need.
Part of my responsibility IMO is to test my firearms for myself. That is why I PROPERLY lube my firearms and test in sand, mud, snow, freezing rain...
"One never knows the where or when of next encounter"-[CRSam].
I know my guns will fire weak-handed, upside down, sideways ( eject port up OR down) like if I'm hit and need to shoot under a vehicle.
It ain't ONE particular brand of anything. The Reality is The 1911 style has been running a lot longer than many cleaning and lubrication companies have been in business.
IMNSHO
Not to mention the money used for trying every new product that comes down the pike is better spent on ammo, and training...this is what allows one to survive...not what flavor of lube of the month.
bountyhunter, The weapons in the 507th would have malfunctioned if they had been lubed with Militech. The failure was one of leadership, not of material. To suggest otherwise is a lie. To tell the grieving families that their loved ones would be alive now, if the Army had only issued their miracle product is a lie. That is how they are lying.
I think the fact that the combat arms units used CLP exclusively (it's the only authorized lubricant except for LAW for most Army small arms) and had no problems like that speaks for itself.
I don't care if they give away free samples. I don't care if Militech magically reduces friction to zero and they are making bullet trains levitate with it by placing it on the rails. This type of marketing is attempting to make profit on the dead. I would not buy their product or recommend it to anyone. The small arms in the 507th Maintenance Company failed because their leaders didn't enforce the standards. They could have been AKMs lubed with Militech and the results would have been the same. It's not the weapon, it's not the lubricant, it's the maintenance or in this case the lack of it.
Do they mention how militech failed to meet the standards when the Army tested it? Of course I guess that's just because Militech was the victim of a conspiracy to keep the makers of CLP rich :banghead:
Jeff
sm
member
Yep
Agree with Jeff White,he just says it better.
Personally feel the same way with other products that get marketed in similar fashion. I will not buy, recommend....ever!
Kinda like the media telling folks evil black rifles are more dangerous than one that is more PC in appearance...It is the Individual not the material of the rifle or the .223 rd.
Agree with Jeff White,he just says it better.
Personally feel the same way with other products that get marketed in similar fashion. I will not buy, recommend....ever!
Kinda like the media telling folks evil black rifles are more dangerous than one that is more PC in appearance...It is the Individual not the material of the rifle or the .223 rd.
tiberius
Member
Maybe on a tight race gun, but not on a mil-spec M1911-A1. They are probabliy the most field reliable pistols made, provided mil-spec ammo is used.
Kentucky Rifle
Member In Memoriam
Golgo-13...
No offense meant, however it's Militec's policy to provide FREE LUBE to anyone in uniform. Personally, I know that, what was termed as "a boatload", of Militec-1 was just shipped-*free of charge-to the soldiers who are in Iraq. A LOT of product went and Militec Corp even paid for shipping. I think it was a pretty outstanding thing to do...plus, they don't even mention this generosity in their advertisements. I also know that Militec turned down offers of contributons for this effort. Shows a lot of class.
Please understand that I'm in no way trying to flame you or "start something". I'm just trying to make you aware of something you may not know.
KR
No offense meant, however it's Militec's policy to provide FREE LUBE to anyone in uniform. Personally, I know that, what was termed as "a boatload", of Militec-1 was just shipped-*free of charge-to the soldiers who are in Iraq. A LOT of product went and Militec Corp even paid for shipping. I think it was a pretty outstanding thing to do...plus, they don't even mention this generosity in their advertisements. I also know that Militec turned down offers of contributons for this effort. Shows a lot of class.
Please understand that I'm in no way trying to flame you or "start something". I'm just trying to make you aware of something you may not know.
KR
Kentucky Rifle said;
Any soldier of mine I caught using an unauthorized lubricant in a combat zone would lose half a months pay and a stripe. It would definately be time for a Company Grade Article 15. Militech is approved and procured for one of the larger weapons, it's either the 25mm Bushmaster Chain gun on the Bradley IFV/CFV or the 30mm cannon on the AH64 Apache IIRC. It's not authorized for use on any small arm in the Army inventory.
More damage to weapons is done by soldiers thinking they know more then the ordnance department and using unauthorized substances to clean their weapons then you would believe. Militech was tested for use on small arms and didn't make the grade. That's it, end of story. Militech is not showing a lot of class by sending their product to the soldiers. They are attempting to market a product. Perhaps they think that the soldiers will use their product and get outcry built up for official purchases. But all they are really doing is encouraging the soldiers to get into trouble.
In almost 29 years in the Army, I saw soldiers use everything from WD40 to carborator cleaner to oven cleaner to attempt to make cleaning their weapons easier.
If Militech wanted to help the soldiers, they'd send patches and pipe cleaners which my friends who are deployed tell me are hard to come by in the quantities needed.
Jeff
Any soldier of mine I caught using an unauthorized lubricant in a combat zone would lose half a months pay and a stripe. It would definately be time for a Company Grade Article 15. Militech is approved and procured for one of the larger weapons, it's either the 25mm Bushmaster Chain gun on the Bradley IFV/CFV or the 30mm cannon on the AH64 Apache IIRC. It's not authorized for use on any small arm in the Army inventory.
More damage to weapons is done by soldiers thinking they know more then the ordnance department and using unauthorized substances to clean their weapons then you would believe. Militech was tested for use on small arms and didn't make the grade. That's it, end of story. Militech is not showing a lot of class by sending their product to the soldiers. They are attempting to market a product. Perhaps they think that the soldiers will use their product and get outcry built up for official purchases. But all they are really doing is encouraging the soldiers to get into trouble.
In almost 29 years in the Army, I saw soldiers use everything from WD40 to carborator cleaner to oven cleaner to attempt to make cleaning their weapons easier.
If Militech wanted to help the soldiers, they'd send patches and pipe cleaners which my friends who are deployed tell me are hard to come by in the quantities needed.
Jeff
*cough* *bull$hit* *cough*...
My brother got leave from LSA Anaconda (a ways south of Tikrit, IIRC) a couple weeks ago (He's 45B). No CLP issued at all. He has a couple of drums of it (did you know stuff settles out of it after awhile?), but the CLP isn't issued to the troops, nor used in the shop to clean weapons. He says he has become a big fan of WD-40 lately, but wishes he had a dry lube alternative because oils attract dust.
Furthermore, he has told me horror stories that YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE, and almost made me cry, about how some of the soldiers treated their weapons. Combat troops generally don't mess around with their rifles, but enginners evidently have a tendency to use their M-16's as chockblocks... for their earth-movers... Bent/loose barrels, CRUSHED stocks, etc. Weapon failure in a maintenance unit like the 507th probably has more to do with them not maintaining or abusing their weapons than CLP.
My brother got leave from LSA Anaconda (a ways south of Tikrit, IIRC) a couple weeks ago (He's 45B). No CLP issued at all. He has a couple of drums of it (did you know stuff settles out of it after awhile?), but the CLP isn't issued to the troops, nor used in the shop to clean weapons. He says he has become a big fan of WD-40 lately, but wishes he had a dry lube alternative because oils attract dust.
Furthermore, he has told me horror stories that YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE, and almost made me cry, about how some of the soldiers treated their weapons. Combat troops generally don't mess around with their rifles, but enginners evidently have a tendency to use their M-16's as chockblocks... for their earth-movers... Bent/loose barrels, CRUSHED stocks, etc. Weapon failure in a maintenance unit like the 507th probably has more to do with them not maintaining or abusing their weapons than CLP.
Quickloader
Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2003
- Messages
- 23
And so the story goes on:
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/investigators/wabc_investigators_112603gunlube.html#
Food for thinking, or maybe not.
Quickloader
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/investigators/wabc_investigators_112603gunlube.html#
Food for thinking, or maybe not.
Quickloader
twoblink
Member
I have a friend who loves CLP. CLP for lunch, CLP for dinner..
I tried his gun once...
I shot the first round.. SLASH!! CLP came flying out. His guns were prone to jamming.. Maybe it was the half gallon or so of CLP pumped into it!!
CLP is not bad at all, if used PROPERLY. Any lube if used improperly will give you bad results..
I like transmission oil myself Mobile 1 is pretty good too. You want a THIN film, and not more. Also, CLEAN BEFORE YOU LUBE.
From the soldiers I know, they need to take "Rifle cleaning 101". That would do more than all the wonderlubes in the world.
Militec, is taking advantage of the situation to profit. Not cool IMHO..
I tried his gun once...
I shot the first round.. SLASH!! CLP came flying out. His guns were prone to jamming.. Maybe it was the half gallon or so of CLP pumped into it!!
CLP is not bad at all, if used PROPERLY. Any lube if used improperly will give you bad results..
I like transmission oil myself
Mobile 1 is pretty good too. You want a THIN film, and not more. Also, CLEAN BEFORE YOU LUBE. From the soldiers I know, they need to take "Rifle cleaning 101". That would do more than all the wonderlubes in the world.
Militec, is taking advantage of the situation to profit. Not cool IMHO..
- Status
