There are also replacement gas plugs that allow the use of almost any commercial .30-06. I say almost because I believe that even with a plug it is recommended not to shoot heavy bullets. I have a Schuster adjustable gas plug. That's what I used with 150gr hunting ammo when I took my garand hunting.
CMP Garand. What do you think?
- Thread starter daniel craig
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I have purchased two M1s and a 1911 from the CMP. As far as Garands go I can't think of a better place to get one. The "hoops" that most complain about are very easy to jump through and after that is a painless and certainly cheapest way to get a Garand delivered to your door. To me the only real downside is that unless you go to the store you're unable to see the gun before you buy. Luckily they grade very conservatively and rarely get complaints.
The 1911 RGN process is a different story. The lottery aspect was not transparent. The "one per person forever" and ship to an FFL rules made the process unwieldy . They were overwhelmed by extra amount of work involved in the overly complicated procedures. I was in the first batch to send in a 1911 order and it took well over a year to get the gun.
The CMP has a pretty good forum that is well worth taking a look at if you haven't already.
The 1911 RGN process is a different story. The lottery aspect was not transparent. The "one per person forever" and ship to an FFL rules made the process unwieldy . They were overwhelmed by extra amount of work involved in the overly complicated procedures. I was in the first batch to send in a 1911 order and it took well over a year to get the gun.
The CMP has a pretty good forum that is well worth taking a look at if you haven't already.
daniel craig
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I'd rather a FAL but illegal in my state.During a 13 month period (mid-Apr'04 to mid-May'05) I purchased 15 M1s from the CMP. I still have them all.
Here is a quikpic (not very good, sorry) that I took of some of them while I was doing some mass cleaning/maintenance a dozen, or so, years ago:
View attachment 1050012
.30'06/M2Ball is a powerful round. After you send one downrange from an M1 for the 1st time, you may pause to wonder at how mild the recoil is. I did.
I enjoy shooting the M1s very much. Carrying one on walkabout around the farm is a bit of a chore (relatively heavy, dontchaknow) but it improves my fitness.
I have never fired an M1 setup for any other cartridge. For semi-auto .308/7.62x51 I have FAL & CETME Variants to shoot.
As far as customer service, IMO & IME, it doesn't get any better than the CMP. I like the grading they provide and if they inadvertantly OOPS, they are stand-up in their approach to fair resolution.
daniel craig
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See I'm not necessarily sold on the garand itself. I don't have any particular love or hate for them it's just that in my state with some of the weird laws we have it's a good option for a "high powered" semi auto rifle.
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Another option is the M1A. Springfield Armory makes several NY compliant versions. https://www.springfield-armory.com/firearm-selector/
The last drop down box allows you to search only for models that are "state compliant" meaning principally NY and CA.
This might be a better choice if what you really want is a .308 rather than .30-06.
Speedo66
Member
I believe OP is a veteran, don't think he needs to join an organization.
I trained with a M-14, and my Reserve unit still had Garands. I think you'll like the gun and the .308 cartridge.
Dave DeLaurant
Member
Here's the full list of CMP's extensive eligibility routes: https://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/eligibility-requirements/
Have been shooting Garands since issued my first in early 1950's; one of my favorite rifles. Shot competition in the service and as a civilian for as many years as my eyes focused on the front sight.
Have shot a deer or two with them as well, and agree w/wombat13 about light restriction on the issued sights.
There is, however an easy solution to that problem. Change out your rear aperture to one you have drilled out a bit larger to allow use in poor light. Once you have ground off the "stop" on the bottom of the aperture(s) (see shiny portion on lower right aperture in picture below) on several apertures drilled to different size(s) allows you to change to the best size for poor light conditions without disassembling rear sight. The NM M1 I was issued on the AMU had an even smaller aperture which had been staked into a service grade aperture for a finer sight picture. (Depending upon how accurately you drill various sights, you may need to change zero slightly from one to the other).
When iron sights are out of the question, you can always mount a red dot or a short optic such as the Primary Arms mounted on this (accurized) DCM (30-06) rifle. Not as pleasing to the eye, but you can really find out what the rifle is capable of.
Garands are a hoot; go for it!
Regards,
hps
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daniel craig
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Does CMP save me any money in the end?
That's a nice tip. So grinding off that bit of metal allows a quick change of aperture in the field? Can you describe in a little more detail how that works or link to a more detailed description or video? I'm guessing that the bit ground off prevents the user from adjusting the the aperture until it falls out. Grinding it off allows one to back it out and insert a different aperture. How do you get back to zero? Very carefully counting clicks?Have been shooting Garands since issued my first in early 1950's; one of my favorite rifles. Shot competition in the service and as a civilian for as many years as my eyes focused on the front sight.
Have shot a deer or two with them as well, and agree w/wombat13 about light restriction on the issued sights.
There is, however an easy solution to that problem. Change out your rear aperture to one you have drilled out a bit larger to allow use in poor light. Once you have ground off the "stop" on the bottom of the aperture(s) (see shiny portion on lower right aperture in picture below) on several apertures drilled to different size(s) allows you to change to the best size for poor light conditions without disassembling rear sight. The NM M1 I was issued on the AMU had an even smaller aperture which had been staked into a service grade aperture for a finer sight picture. (Depending upon how accurately you drill various sights, you may need to change zero slightly from one to the other).
View attachment 1050147
When iron sights are out of the question, you can always mount a red dot or a short optic such as the Primary Arms mounted on this (accurized) DCM (30-06) rifle. Not as pleasing to the eye, but you can really find out what the rifle is capable of.
View attachment 1050148View attachment 1050149
Garands are a hoot; go for it!
Regards,
hps
I haven't checked prices. Whats the street price of a NY compliant M1A? What does a special grade .308 M1 from CMP go for? Then you have to decide which you prefer, en bloc clips like the Garand or detachable mags like the M1A and how much you are willing to pay for that preference?
Asking price for a M1A appears to be $1,600 and up on gunbroker (doesn't mean anyone is paying that). An expert grade M1 Garand in either .308 or .30-06 is $1,000 with free shipping. Personally, I would jump all over the M1. Is a detachable box mag worth $600+? Remember, we are limited in mag size in NY. You can't legally have a 20 round mag for the M1A. So do you want to pay >$600 more for a 10 round detachable box mag rather than the 8 round en bloc? I wouldn't.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Then, all things considered you need to shop around. While I for example happen to very much enjoy the M1 Garand as well as M1A it's a matter of what works for you as to a semi automatic rifle be it chambered inh 30-06 Springfield, .308 Winchester or any other cartridge chambering. It's about not just what your state allows but also what trips your trigger, what feels comfortable in your shoulder. Rifles are like trucks and motorcycles and other things. They are an extension of our personal taste. You need to find what trips your trigger. My taste is here nor there. If I want a rifle for hunting there is no shortage of good semi-automatic hunting rifles to be had out there and my Garands or M1A would not be my first choice for hunting.
Ron
CapnMac
Member
Complicated question.
Until the couf, M1A prices in the field had come down to around $1600-1700; last Fort Worth Show in August, cheapest one (NIB) was $2300.
I have no idea where the NY-compliant ones are fetching.
Plain Rack Grade 30-06 M-1 from CMP is $650, if memory serves. A special is running $1200, round numbers.
At the gun shows locally, Garands (as is, no history, no promises) have been running $2000-2300.
So, will any of that save you any money? Probably not, as you are going to be buying/making ammo in quantity. The en bloc clips seem "stuck" at $1 each* (scoring M2 ball in the en bloc clips is a double bargain). Owning a Garand also leads to things, like going to Service Rifle shoots, so, you need more ammo ($) for that. And a shooting jacket ($), and driving to the range, and, and, and . . . Mind, getting the grin off your face can be tricky, too. [
]__________________
*Those prices sore annoy me, only a few years ago, you could get a bag/bucket of 100 garand en bloc for $10; I bought a cardboard box, about 11# worth for $8; that was easily a couple hundred; I gave away any with rust on them, probably still have a pile of them--just have no idea where that box is right now.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
I would say yes and here is my reasoning. Those who really get into the M1 Garand rifle and its operation know it's a pretty complex machine. A whole pile of parts need to be correct and in specifications for the rifle to function correctly. Those part specifications are checked using gauges specifically designed for those parts. Just off the top earlier in this thread I saw throat and muzzle erosion mentioned. You pick a Garand up on a gun show table unless you have a TE (Throat Erosion), ME (Muzzle Erosion) gauge in your pocket you have no clue what those numbers are or what they mean. Less a headspace gauge you have no clue what the rifle's headspace numbers are. The list goes on but it all comes down to because a rifle looks pretty on a gun show table does not mean it is a going to function properly. Can you find the seller when things don't work? I have seen countless M1 Garands which were beaters with shot out barrels at gun shows all dressed up looking wonderful but if you put lipstick on a pig it's still a ... you get the idea.
With a CMP rifle what you get out of the box is a rifle ready to shoot with a team pf people standing behind it to back it up on the off chance something is amiss. I still have a whole pile of take off barrels here suitable as tomato stakes from Garands I rebuilt. Some look pretty good right till you gauge them.
So yes, the CMP rifles save you money and grief you can't even place a price tag on. Makes sense to me anyway.
Ron
You save money if you buy a Garand directly from the CMP because any one you buy from anywhere else these days was probably recently bought from the CMP and had at least $4-500 added to the price by the guy selling it to you. The ONLY benefit buying anywhere else is getting to see what you're buying. As stated the CMP grades way lower than what you get so if you have to examine the gun first you would probably save money spending a weekend in Anniston, buying one from the CMP store, and shooting it at the CMP range than buying one at a gunshow. Way worse ways to spend a weekend imo.
Ignition Override
Member
wombat: You mentioned the M1A-1 in Remarks # 30. I've forgotten how to quote anybody (and very seldom used any).
A friend of mine is probably going to buy a Springfield Armory M1A-1 as his next gun (or an A5 shotgun).
A different friend who spent years on, and retired from the Navy Rifle Team says that his SA rifles (M1A-1s plus Garands) are very solid products.
A friend of mine is probably going to buy a Springfield Armory M1A-1 as his next gun (or an A5 shotgun).
A different friend who spent years on, and retired from the Navy Rifle Team says that his SA rifles (M1A-1s plus Garands) are very solid products.
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Correct. Grinding off the stop allows you to remove one aperture and replace with another w/o disassembling your sight.
Fine tuning zero from one aperture to the other most likely will be necessary but you can mark each one and record your "comeups/windage" settings for returning to no wind zero at any given range. Once the zero is determined, count clicks down to zero and that setting can be repeated for that aperture; keep spare apertures in pill bottle w/zero's on label.
You and me both. Having a long relationship w/the Garand tips the scales over the M14/M1A for me if I had to choose. Have much more experience w/the Garand, but have shot M14 in a few matches and it is also a fine rifle. The Garand is easier to bed and, IMO holds it's bedding longer than it's younger brother if you're looking for accuracy. Not to mention the difference in original cost.
Have had both 308 & -06 Garands. Prefer the -06 but not a lot of difference to matter all that much.
Reloadron's post regarding a hunting rifle is spot on. While I love my Garand, the .308 or 30-06 BAR is a better fit for me in a hunting rifle, albeit, not quite as accurate as the Garand.
Regards,
hps
Reloadron
Contributing Member
There is a bit of a caveat in all of this. Other rifles and munitions aside for a moment the US Rifle M1 Garand designed and built at Springfield Armory during WWII were built at The Springfield Armory which today is a National Historic Sight (National Park) located in Springfield Armory National Historic Site
One Armory Square
Suite 2
Springfield , MA 01105
The armory ceased operations Circa 1980 and today is a great National Park and museum. The M1 Garand of WWII was manufactured in Springfield MA and Winchester Corporation. The later Korean Era guns were made by Harrington Richardson and also IHC (International Harvester Corporation). Springfield Armory, the original one also made US Rifle M14 which was my first issue M14 rifle. Mine was actually manufactured here in Cleveland Ohio at the TRW plant, a plant I later retired from. The M1A (the semi auto fire only) rifles we see today are manufactured by Springfield Armory but not the original armory in MA.
Where are Springfield Armory guns manufactured?
Geneseo, Illinois
Springfield Armory, Inc., is an American commercial firearms manufacturer and importer based in Geneseo, Illinois. Founded in 1974 by Bob Reese and family, the company produces rifles such as the M1A and imports handguns such as the XD series and Hellcat.
I did get some nice posters from my visit to the National Park armory in MA. The preserved section is a really cool and interesting place. A few other gun makers and importers have taken on the names of long closed US armories. Some very good books on this subject by Scott Duff and Bruce Canfield.
Ron
Jeremy2171
Member
Those aren't even needed... commercial ammo is actually fine in garands.
Also...it's not a gas plug..those are only on gas trap garands. You are talking about the gas cylinder lock screw.
D.B. Cooper
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Then don't buy a Garand. (I NEVER thought I'd ever say THAT!) There are civilian semi auto rifles specifically for hunting that would be a better rifle for you. (They'll cost more than a CMP Garand.) Garand is heavy, difficult to put a scope on, and would require the special, 5 round clip (which is the least of your problems).
Don't get me wrong, the Garand is a lot of fun to own and shoot, and there is definitely a pride of ownership. People have hunted with them (someone here once posted some photos), but it's not a hunting rifle, other than to say you did it, or it was your only option.
On the other hand, if you want to own a piece of history, buy a Garand.
Fooey
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I got a service grade in July for $750 (4 month wait) and a .308 last month for $1000 (5 weeks wait). 308 expert has new stock and new bbl. The only ones available right now are Expert grade rifles in 30-06 and 308 for $1000. M1 Garand - Civilian Marksmanship Program (thecmp.org). First one took about an hour to order going slow as to not make any mistakes. When I saw expert 308's for sale it literally took me fifteen minutes to download and get into USPS box. You can put any commercial ammo thru a .308 without worry but modern 30-06 ammo may bend/damage op rod. If you don't reload there are companys that make garand friendly ammo. Some say not a hunting rifle but they were designed for hunting game that shoots back. I would get a second rear sight and drill out the peep bigger if it were a problem and keep the original for those competitions you will win. Great rifle to shoot, get one!! By the way, the case they come in are worth at least $100 bucks and it ships right to your door so there is no FFL dealer to pay $30 to $50 buck to.
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P5 Guy
Member
Hoops not much more difficult Than at an FFL in NJ, NY, MA or CA
All CMP purchases.
But, I share DB Coopers opinion look elsewhere for a semi-auto rifle. Browning Auto Rifles spring instantly to mind.
BAR - Semi-Auto Centerfire Rifles - Browning
You will be happier with this hunting rifle. M1s are for hunting bipedal critters that shoot back.
Hesa Hard1
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Noop. Those are only reasons for you not to buy an M1 Garand to hunt with.
And on the other, other hand, if you want a really cool hunting rifle - that once also killed Commies, Nazis, and other enemies of a free people - well, the M1 will do just fine in that role too.
Hogs, deer, elk, bears.
This guy harvested his elk with an M1 chambered in .35 Whelen.
Hesa Hard1
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An Alaskan client of Shuff's Parkerizing uses his 16" Mini-G (a true "carbine"-length M1), chambered in .35 Whelen, for hunting and "bear protection" in the AK boonies. He took this pic (posted on another board) while zeroing at the local range.
Shuff modifies the internal areas of the receiver just minimally enough to hold a full 8-rd clip and reliably feed the Whelen's big heavy 250grn .35-cal bullets. (It will also run on a 5-rd "hunting" clip if a particular state's hunting regs limit mag capacity). He also installs his version of the "Holbrook devise" to prevent premature ejection of the clip under heavy recoil.
Shuff modifies the internal areas of the receiver just minimally enough to hold a full 8-rd clip and reliably feed the Whelen's big heavy 250grn .35-cal bullets. (It will also run on a 5-rd "hunting" clip if a particular state's hunting regs limit mag capacity). He also installs his version of the "Holbrook devise" to prevent premature ejection of the clip under heavy recoil.
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Jeremy2171
Member
Still looking for modern 30-06 ammo that will damage the oprod..if you find any let me know. Pretty much all store bought 30-06 is garand friendly.
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