CMP Pricing on M1 Carbine

[mindwip]

Am i the only one who thinks the price is low. I was expecting something around 600-700. I wish it was lower. I wish I owned my own country too.

Pricing wise;
With them only having a few on hand 30,000?, M1 carbines are hot items now, good quality, shipped to your door, no FFL tax, one per customer, who cares if they are selling 50-75 dollars too high(according to some). Name ONE PLACE that i can go up to any time and order a M1 carbine for 500 or less and ITS IN STOCK 24/7.

I challenge you, tell me, show us, that CMP is too high. Quote a price from a store/with link and/or address. This place also needs to have a couple on hand so that ohh 30,000 ( 100 to make it easy) people can get it at that price. If you do that i will say CMP is too high. I will happly say it. And admit i am wrong.


ps last i looked an M1 did not come with anything other then a $0.50 clip. No sling No ammo No cleaning kit

 

[swingset]

If you honestly believe that, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the mission of the CMP and how it differs from the old DCM program it replaced.

I understand how it differs, but rifles were sold under the DCM in the same manner as sold under the CMP. Now they are PERMITTED to sell reimported US weapons (that no other organization or business may import) to US citizens for the purpose of teaching marksmanship, and for funding youth shooting programs.

Yes, they derive funds from these sales, but tell me, how do they justify charging market price for these guns?? Are they bought at surplus market prices?? Do they have to pay what you'd pay if you bought them on the world market?

No.

Does the CMP have a typical storefront or warehouse overhead, or administrative costs on par with a Century or Interordnance?

No.

Come to think of it, where are the CMP stores at? I'll bet the rent isn't too steep there.

10 years ago, you were restricted on the number of rifles you could buy, and it kept the dealers from plundering their wares. Only collectors and shooters got ahold of them, and they were WAY below market price (I paid $375 for a service grade). Now, the Garands have crept up to near market, and the M1 Carbines are there too. What has changed? Well, for one, they've lessened the restrictions on how many guns you can buy, which did what? It let dealers start plundering the CMP....and I know guys who made a business of getting guns there to sell at the gun shows.

Whatever, I'm sorry I see the pricing with the CMP of late, as well as the opening of the flood gates for who can buy and how many you can get as polluting the purpose of those rifle sales....or the spirit of them.

Disagree if you like.

 

[swingset]

I challenge you, tell me, show us, that CMP is too high. Quote a price from a store/with link and/or address.

That's an unfair challenge. Show me another store that has permission by the State Department to bring back lend-lease guns and sell them on the US market. Why do they have that permission? Because the purpose of those guns coming back was supposed to be to spread them to shooters who wanted to learn marksmanship. They were supposed to be sold cheaply, that's why the CMP doesn't pay much (if anything) for them, and there's no one else ALLOWED to bring them home.

 

[donkee]

The way I see it, if you think The CMP is ripping us off, you can go to the gun shows and buy them instead. Whining will get you nowhere. I'm buying a couple M1 carbines from The CMP. The I'll sell off that beat up Blue Sky import I have. I bet you if I take it to a gun show, I'll get more than 500.00 for it from the guys that won't buy from The CMP cause the prices are too high....

I personally like the 12 per year limit on Garands. I'll have 13 of my own if they last the year and we won't have to worry about them being melted down by the far left dems that have taken over congress and the senate.

 

[Koobuh]

At a price point of $400, I would have purchased two.
At $500, I will only purchase one, grudgingly, because getting a Garand would cost more in the long run (Rack Grade+ barrel and new wood, etc.).

And yes, $500 is a LOT for a gun, at least for a very common milsurp.
The most expensive gun I own is my Finnish M39, which I paid about $400 for, with shipping and transfer. Most of my guns were acquired for about $100, and I'm happy with them despite the low price.
For someone that is used to paying $100-200 for an excellent condition historic weapon, $500 makes me take pause.


As an aside, I keep hearing about how the CMP is all about youth shooter programs, etc., and promoting youth marksmanship.
Where exactly is this money being spent, physically? I found out about the CMP through their Shotgun News ad, for heavens sake. There are no CMP sponsored programs in my area that I know of.
Is every penny being spent in the south-eastern US, where CMP is based?
That being the case, I have little reason to 'help the CMP' by paying higher prices, as my area is not benefitting from their programs. I'd just as soon pay less for the rifle and donate to my local range's youth program.

 

[DrDremel]

The only reason that these rifles are for sale at all is to generate funds for the CMP. They are justified in selling at any market value as the purpose is to generate funds which are invested for the future of the CMP program. DCM sales were not to fund the future of the program. It was simply to pay the current at the time cost of the sale and manpower. It would be foolish for the CMP to sell these at any less as the money for the entire program has to come from rifle sales and match fees. If you wanted cheap rifles from the Government, you should have made a bigger stink before Clinton decided to have guns chopped up and made the CMP privately funded. This is not a charity or rifle welfare, this is a fundraising campaign.

Even if they got the guns for free, they should not lower the price one penny.

The CMP does have administration costs, including paying for matches, classes, etc.

The reason that the CMP sold the Garands was in case someone like Hillary makes it in office and cuts off the supply of rifles in full.

The fact is, if you don't want to support the CMP, don't buy one. If you want one, buy from them and quit whining. If it were not for the CMP there would be ZERO Garands and Carbines coming in.

If you want a free flow of guns coming in, take the fight to Congress and the President.

 

[mindwip]

That's an unfair challenge. Show me another store that has permission by the State Department to bring back lend-lease guns and sell them on the US market. Why do they have that permission? Because the purpose of those guns coming back was supposed to be to spread them to shooters who wanted to learn marksmanship. They were supposed to be sold cheaply, that's why the CMP doesn't pay much (if anything) for them, and there's no one else ALLOWED to bring them home

Exactly the point, its an unfair challenge because there is no place else this happens. CMP is charging more or less market price. I don't see whats so bad about that. They are providing cheap rifles to the public, 500 for an American carbine seems to be a good price.

If you wanted cheap rifles from the Government, you should have made a bigger stink before Clinton decided to have guns chopped up and

made the CMP privately funded.

This is not a charity or rifle welfare, this is a fundraising campaign.

I think thats a big part too. They used to get money from the government, but now they need to support them selfs.

 

[Trebor]

Here's what I think is the crux of our disagreement:

They were supposed to be sold cheaply, that's why the CMP doesn't pay much (if anything) for them, and there's no one else ALLOWED to bring them home.

What is your support for your assertation that CMP guns were "supposed to be sold cheaply" as part of the fundamental mission of the program? The fact that the goverment gives the guns to the CMP for a nominal cost does NOT, in itself, support the assertation that the guns were therefore supposed to be sold cheaply.

The government gives them to the CMP at cost because it still saves money over the cost of warehousing or destroying the guns. Even though the government is "giving them away" they are still saving money.

Just because the old DCM sold guns cheaply (as a way to promote marksmanship) doesn't mean the CMP was "supposed" to sell them cheaply as well. The fact that the CMP gets the guns cheaply does not imply that they are then required to sell them cheaply.

Your logic seems to be:

1. The old DCM was supposed to promote marksmanship.
2. The old DCM received guns cheaply.
3. The old DCM sold guns cheaply.

4. The CMP is supposed to promote marksmanship.
5. The CMP received the guns cheaply.
6 *Therefore* the CMP has to sell guns cheaply in order to fufill the intent of it's mission.

The logic is sound, as far as it goes, but ignores the fact the CMP is NOT the old DCM. The DCM was government subsized. The CMP has to fund itself. It does have overhead and expenses and salaries. It does have expenses related to the shooting programs it runs.

As far as the "lend lease" guns go. Those are first returned to U.S. government control and then turned over to the CMP. The reason they can't be commercially imported is because they are STILL U.S. PROPERTY. The receipient nations can NOT sell U.S. property to a commercial importer. The receipient nations just return the U.S. property back to the U.S. control and then the military declares them surplus to needs and turns them over to the CMP.

If the CMP didn't exist, those guns would either be destroyed by the receipient nation or destroyed by the U.S. government if they were returned.

 

[Trebor]

As an aside, I keep hearing about how the CMP is all about youth shooter programs, etc., and promoting youth marksmanship.
Where exactly is this money being spent, physically? I found out about the CMP through their Shotgun News ad, for heavens sake. There are no CMP sponsored programs in my area that I know of.

If you want to become aware of CMP programs in your area, do a little research. The CMP has a list of affiliated clubs on their website. Those clubs receive assistance from the CMP for programs. They can buy ammo and firearms and hold CMP approved matches. The CMP also provides marksmanship instructor training at various locations in the country throughout the year and other programs. Read through the site at www.odcmp.com and see what is applicable for your area.

If there are no affiliated clubs in your area, that is because no one at the club level has worked to establish the affiliation with the CMP. You can change that by being involved with your local club.

The fact that much of the money seems to be spent in the NE is becuase the "National Matches" have been held at Camp Perry in Ohio for about 80 (?) years or so. People travel from all over the country to attend this once-a-year event. The CMP has been making an effort to sponsore more local matches around the country so shooters everywhere have more shooting opportunities.

 

[jeff-10]

I like how the one poster compared the M1 Carbine to the SKS, the worlds cheapest semi-automatic rifle. Why not compare it to a Ruger PC or Bushmaster AR.

 

[30Cal]

The CMP is tasked with funding the National Matches. Indefinitely. That's the overhead. That's why they don't give away rifles for pocket change. You're still getting a deal--you can sell ANY CMP rifle for more than you paid for crying out loud.

I think it's a perfectly fair price, and I'll be glad to pony it up because the proceeds fund the matches and junior programs. I'll buy as many as the CMP and my wallet will allow.

If they sold them tomorrow for $5 a pop, people would still gripe because they don't come with slings and oilers.

Ty

 

[Hoppy590]

You're still getting a deal--you can sell ANY CMP rifle for more than you paid for crying out loud.

thats the spirit.

 

[30Cal]

My point is that you're getting a decent deal. It'll cost you less than the market value (and people still moan and wail).

Ty

 

[SaMx]

The Carbine is being sold at a fair price. Look on gunbroker, and look around in stores these days. I have only seen m1 carbines for sale for about $600. The CMP needs to raise money so they can continue to hold the National Matches, and the various service rifle and youth shooters programs they put together. They are selling their rifles at a price that is a little below retail. It's not dirt cheap. I guess people are used to the CMP selling guns for half price or less. But the CMP isn't the rifle thrift store, at least not anymore. Their only funding comes from rifle sales, and once the garands and carbines are gone, that's it. They won't be able to sell m14s or m16s. Personally, I'm going to save my pennies and probably buy one. I'll get a rifle that is both useful and historical, at a good price compared to similar carbines, and I'll be supporting future marksmanship promotion. Plus, the rifles will probably only gain value. In a few years that $500 carbine could be worth $700.

 

[FXR]

Yep - what SaMx said

I think the price is fair and I'm filling out my application this weekend to buy my allocation for this year. Next year, I'll buy another one (would like more but budget limits me a bit).

I enthusiastically support the CMP -- no gunshop know-it-alls, no dickering over the price, they support what they sell (given the limitations of 50+ year old hardware that's been through a war or two...) and more than that, they're decent people besides. To me, buying from the CMP is a combination of getting a piece of history while supporting a worthy organization with none of the drawbacks of dealing with gunshow/gunshop scam artists. They're a near-charity organization since they support the shooting sports to a huge extent. Show me a gunshop that does as much as the CMP and I'll buy from them too.

Anyway, I've bought several great rifles from them in the past and will get another soon. I don't expect it to be new since it will be older than me and will have seen more combat than me too. Cheap at twice the price and I'll take great care of it. Also, these rifles will get passed down to my two kids and (hopefully) never sold to anyone else for generations into the future. My kids will have memories of their first rifle shots coming from these rifles along with a short history lesson and a slightly longer safety lesson.

K

 

[swingset]

I like how the one poster compared the M1 Carbine to the SKS, the worlds cheapest semi-automatic rifle. Why not compare it to a Ruger PC or Bushmaster AR.

That would be me, and your comparison is worse. I was talking about comparing the COST paid by the CMP to get their hands on a M1 Carbine, and the cost to an importer to get their hands on an SKS (and the subsequent price you'll pay for either rifle). Both rifles served the same purpose, and believe it or not the cost to make them wasn't all that different. Fine, there's a higher demand for the M1 Carbine, but they're not paying surplus market prices on those guns. They're getting them for basically NOTHING.

I would be fine with the CMP doubling their money on what it took to get those guns, even $400 would seem reasonable. However, I think they're making triple and then some. They're funding the National Matches and Junior Programs, I get it, that's great and I support that effort. However, when they've got a government sponsored monopoly on the arms they can get and sell, and the purpose of that monopoly was to put rifles into shooters hands CHEAPLY, then a 400% (or whatever it is) markup on those guns is out of line IMHO.

It's my opinion, you don't have to like it or agree with it, but I still say the CMP has lost its way with rifle sales.

The recent auction bull**** really sealed it for me. Can't just sell the good ones now, they have to tantalize the market and then let bidder frenzy make those pieces even more of a cash cow. Is that what the CMP is supposed to be about to you guys?

 

[mrcpu]

All this time I thought CMP was some kind of "charity". Well, not that they sold something for nothing, but I guess I thought it was related to the government somehow, and such. Sounds like now it's just a play on the name.

Now that I find out it's just a biz like anybody else, well, at least now I don't have to feel guilty that I didn't buy something from them...

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Wow! Lots of interesting thoughts here in the thread. As someone up the thread said, supply and demand.

If you have the money and want the CMP carbine order one.

If you don't have the money and cannot afford one, don't buy one.

Its just supply and demand.

I was looking at the last Houston gun show and I did not see a single carbine in the racks and racks of guns. I probably missed a few, but I was specifically looking for them. Thus to me, there are not a lot out there.

So, I am either going to buy one from the CMP, pick up one from my local dealer (both my main ones have nice ones in stock) or order a Kahr one.

Pretty black and white. Just like supply and demand.

 

[DMK]

+1 on everything Tebor and DrDremel said. The DCM did not have to make a profit on the guns it sold. Uncle Sugar gave it an allowance. Congress canned that and now the CMP must make a profit and invest it wisely, just to survive.

What happens when the 1903s, Garands and Carbines have all been returned from lend-lease, etc, and the last are released by the Govt.to CMP? Will the Govt. then give the CMP it's surplus M16s?

Shooting sports are in danger just like every other aspect of gun ownership. We need organizations like CMP to help keep them alive.

Nobody is getting ripped off by the CMP, we are getting ripped off by the U.S. government.

 

[MechAg94]

The recent auction bull**** really sealed it for me. Can't just sell the good ones now, they have to tantalize the market and then let bidder frenzy make those pieces even more of a cash cow. Is that what the CMP is supposed to be about to you guys?

What did you expect them to do with those rifles? Send them out as service grades? Either the CMP makes money on selling them, or some guy who bought one gets the lucky benefit when he resells it. At least with auction, everyone has the opportunity to bid if they really want one instead of just pulling names off some order list like a lottery.

 

[ScottsGT]

Weeding thru all the posts, I'm not sure if someone already mentioned this but,
The CMP HAS to sell at market value.
Orest has stated this on the CMP forums to all the whiners over there that wanted Carbines for nothing. It is written into their "charter" when they became the CMP. Their hands are tied on this matter.
From Orest:
Anyway - to give folks something else to pick apart - here goes.

By law, we are required to charge fair market value. That is written into our enabling legislation.

We did consider the many, many hundreds of comments we received about pricing, the buzz on the dozen or so Internet gun sites for the past few months, the prices in the 4 published (2007) pricing guides, an extensive survey of prices at gun shows and other sales outlets in all geographic areas, the pricing of newly manufactured carbines, consultations with carbine 'experts' (who actually inspected a sampling of the carbines).

Also considered were our operational concerns, the impact the price would have on programs, the impact on 'good will', the amount the CMP had to reimburse the government associated with the return to the US, and the cost to CMP to inspect and make these ready for market.

Even though we felt the carbines would sell at $625 or more, we set the price at the lower end of fair market value at $495.00. That is higher than some suggested and lower than others suggested, and definitely lower than what a careful analysis showed we could successfully charge.

We think our price is very reasonable. Time will tell.

There you go.....

 

[Gordon Fink]

To operate in perpetuity, the CMP needs to bank a lot of money now. Interest will fund the organization in the future when there are no more rifles to sell.

~G. Fink

 

[Master Blaster]

OK i have been CHALLENGED BY AN INTERNET NINJA

HER YA GO

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=69397789#PIC

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=69420938

$500 with sling mags and oiler, all cartouches original parts and stock.

I can find at least 20 M1 carbines to buy today that are original WWII issue condition guns, with all USGI parts, not an Italian beach stock, Italian parts heavily used mix master shooter with absolutely no collector value

www.gunbroker.com
www.auctionarms.com
www.gunsamerica.com

I also know of one going for $750 at a local shop that is a rockola, in excellent original condition.

 

[Eightball]

Look at it this way:
Either the CMP can sell them (and set the price at whatever price they think they will sell at, yet still expensive enough to where they won't be gone overnight) or the US Government could destroy them to keep them from getting into our hands. If the latter happened, you'd see carbine prices skyrocket, and then you'd be lamenting the days when you could have gotten one from the CMP for $500.

It's the lesser of two evils, deal with it. If you don't like the price, fine. I'll get mine while they're to be gotten.

 

[Bill73]

Collectors

Remember back in the days of the government armory guns being sold after WWII? 1911's and A1's for $17.50. They were plentiful, but no more. US&S only made 55,000 1911A1s. I bought one several years back for $1800, my goodness that was high........but they were hard to find in all original "as left the factory" condition. Sold that dude for $2650 after only three years (still have one left). Recent sales of all original US&S on the auctions have brought $7049 and $6475.

When all the Carbines are gone, like these mix masters, bubba's garage put togethers, etc. I wonder what collectors will pay for just an arsenal rebuilt Carbine with a mixture of various manufacture's parts.