CNN sees increase in African American gun ownership

[Dog Soldier]

Does this have something to do with the subject of the thread? Or something to do with what I posted about Mr. Castille?


Indeed. To be even more to the point, their potentially criminal behavior, which was neither a) of a violent nature, nor b) something the deceased had even been accused of let alone convicted of, nor c) in any way known to to the officer in that moment, cannot be used to prop up a justification for the use of lethal force.

No I did not read your post until now. This is turning into a one of those "Street Drug" arguments. I am done with this.

 

[wally]

Even if it's the case that Philando Castile had a false statement on his form 4473, that's not a basis for an officer to use lethal force during a traffic stop. It's completely irrelevant to whether use of force is justified. It's also not evidence that he was high during that traffic stop, as urine tests positive up to 30 days after consumption, whereas psychoactive effects last a couple hours.

I'll defer to a jury decision, but its not the first, and certainly will not be the last time that a doper did something stupid than cost them their life. There are new "impairment" tests for pot like for alcohol and are used in Colorado for DUI of pot, these would show if he was legally impaired or not at the time. The officer's claim is Castile didn't obey instructions and reached for what turned out to be his gun license (apparently).

 

[harrygunner]

I don't know enough about Trump to understand why racists see his presidency as permission to launch the recent shootings of, or threats against non-WASP looking people; or threats and damage against Jewish facilities.

But, those people existed before Trump and will exist after. Fortunately, Hillary won't be able to act out her threat to make it harder for anyone to defend themselves.

I'll take more gun owners, no matter why they show up.

 

[stchman]

The local indoor range I go to I have seen a HUGE influx of black and Asian(silly term) shooters. This includes women as well.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

Hopefully with the Democratic party's pawns becoming interested in firearms it WILL put a crimp in the laws based on nonsense.

I have long groused about the leftist hate for firearms deterring black Americans from getting involved. There have been groups to encourage black shooters for quite some time, but I think they are swimming against the tide and I don't know how well they are doing.

HOWEVER you can find articles about black Detroit residents who have taken the sheriff's advice and armed. One lady has twice chased intruders out of her house. The star PPC shooters at the Chabot Gun Club in the SF Bay area were black. (Maybe that is why the local leftists shut the club down?)

In the SF Bay area pan Asians are well represented in competition shooting. Probably overly represented. Cool.

Then, too, there are the Pink Pistols. I almost volunteered to act as parade marshal for them in the SF Gay Pride parade to show support.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I can't open the link probably because of my out of date browser and operating system so maybe I shouldn't comment but I am going to add this.

If African Americans or any other ethnic group is buying firearms in greater numbers than before I don't think Trump has anything to do with it. I give all the credit to Obama and the attention he gave firearms during his time in office.

Me and my wife are both White and nearing retirement age. When we went for CHL license training over two years ago Whites were in the minority with Black, Hispanic and Asian also there. I think there were 16 in the class. Instructors were all White but there was not hint of prejudice anywhere that I detected.

I had a conversation with a Black man and he told me the people he worked with talked about guns a lot. That got him interested, He bought a home protection firearm and was now getting his CHL and planned to start carrying.

The indoor range we were at is in the edge of a Minority Majority area which probably had lots to do with the makeup of the class.

The outdoor range I frequent has had increasing numbers of Minorities both as customers and working there long before Trump even announced his POTUS run. Or at least that is my observation.

Most of the employees and a large percentage of members at my range are Hispanic. It is located in a largely Hispanic area but the key thing I want to point out is that these folks are NOT lefties fearing Trump, all the political chitchat I've ever heard there has been along the lines of how great it is to have a real person as candidate / president. As for black people, google an amazing lady named Star Parker and find the video where members of her group are talking about gun rights.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

As for black people, google an amazing lady named Star Parker and find the video where members of her group are talking about gun rights.

If you haven't already, you should check out the commentaries Colion Noir did for the NRA and the videos on Youtube that he did prior to working with the NRA. Unfortunately Mr. Noir has been doing less commentaries now that he is doing Noir and interviews. I have used his very pithy commentaries to educate leftist firearm haters.

 

[old lady new shooter]

If you haven't already, you should check out the commentaries Colion Noir did for the NRA and the videos on Youtube that he did prior to working with the NRA. Unfortunately Mr. Noir has been doing less commentaries now that he is doing Noir and interviews. I have used his very pithy commentaries to educate leftist firearm haters.

Colion Noir is more of a "gunny", the reason I mentioned Star Parker is that she is a black Christian activist working to fix the black community from the inside out. I guess I am trying to make the point that neither all Hispanics nor all blacks should be painted with the same brush, they are NOT all leftists, rioters, or criminals. One video Star Parker made with a group of black pastors pointed out that >30% of black Americans are evangelicals, definitely not the media image.

I can imagine that Noir would possibly resonate well with the left, especially being young and "edgy".

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

I saw plenty of women and minorities in my CCW class 10 years ago. This trend was strong well before Trump ever came on the political scene.

 

[gun_with_a_view]

The officer's claim is Castile didn't obey instructions

There is no law against refusing to obey instructions of the police pursuant to a detention. Refusal to comply is not resistance. The police can make you comply, and that is something to consider, however. It can get pretty nasty. But non compliance is in no way grounds to shoot and/or kill a suspect.

 

[9MMare]

The NRA recruits American gun owners and gun rights supporters. Not black gun owners, or white gun owners, etc.

I see the article references the Philando Castile shooting. The officer has pleaded not guilty, its been reported that Castile had a carry license, and its been reported that marijuana was found in his system. If he was a drug user, he bought his gun illegally and committed perjury on the 4473. I'd like the real facts to come out -- that is what a trial is for.

In many states, pot use is only a misdemeanor.

None of what you wrote excuses the officer if he shot without cause.

 

[wally]

In many states, pot use is only a misdemeanor.

But lying on the 4473 about being a drug user to buy a gun is a felony.

There is no law against refusing to obey instructions of the police pursuant to a detention. Refusal to comply is not resistance. The police can make you comply, and that is something to consider, however. It can get pretty nasty. But non compliance is in no way grounds to shoot and/or kill a suspect.

It can be if the officer can show the non-compliance looked like he was reaching for a weapon while refusing to obey orders to "show me your hands". As I said its for a jury to decide. I wasn't there and have no way to really know what happend. In any event, it sure looks like another needless tragedy from bad decisions made under the influence of drugs or alcohol. The video evidence will either help or bury the officer.

 

[ATLDave]

NOT LEGAL ADVICE: Note that the 4473 question regarding illegal drugs asks "are you a user of." Not "have you ever used." Not "do you promise to never use in the future." The fact that someone has THC in their system doesn't necessarily prove that they were lying when they filled out a 4473.

 

[Sam1911]

And either way it's irrelevant, utterly, to that shooting.

 

[tipoc]

More people are coming to the shooting sports. This is a good thing. It makes it potentially much harder for anti 2nd amendment folks to pass laws and restrictions on firearms and ammo. It increases the possibility for a serious discussion about defending democratic rights (the Bill of Rights, all of it) with people you might not normally agree with on other topics. I defend the right of folks to worship in a mosque, synagogue or church (many such folk are very worried now for a variety of reasons). Folks who defend free speech are also on the lookout...what the Black Bloc anarchists did in Berkeley a couple weeks back was no good, on a number of levels. New folks at the range...opportunity to talk and to listen.

tipoc

 

[roscoe]

Whether or not Trump (or Bannon, or whoever) is dog-whistling, clearly some folks fear that racist (or homophobic or antisemitic) groups are feeling emboldened to harass or attack minorities. That these folks feel a keen need for arms for self-defense is exactly what the 2nd Amendment is about these days. You are not likely to get into a shootout with the local sheriff or National Guard unit in order to defend, say, your right to peaceably assemble, but you may well not feel adequately protected from the local KKK chapter by the county sheriff. In such a case, your right to bear arms may be your only avenue for protection of your rights. The fact that these minority groups are now seeing the point of the 2nd Amendment is pretty huge.

Considering the long history of pacifism in pursuit of civil rights, it is a big step. (I am aware of small self-defense civil-rights groups like the Deacons of Defense, but some regions of the country have a long tradition of disarming minorities, making passive resistance the only option)

 

[Oolong]

And I thought that Trump would spell disaster for many small gun shops. Well maybe a 'leftist' gun buying frenzy will keep a few of them in operation.



.

This is unlikely if anything trump being in office will likely lead to a gun amazon that will clegane the cranium out of mom and pop stores. Furthermore this is not a sign that blacks are slowly switching parties, black people are pretty much single issue voters, that issue being don't be [deleted] to them, black people have always been neutral to guns and up until the 70's with the rise of the modern day cowboy genre like Dirty Harry and Shaft where heroes fix problems with guns did a unnatural fixation with them occur, just like like everyone else. When you combine this with the fact all black legal gun owners acquire their guns through their day job as opposed to things like inheritance it further decreases the likelihood of anything politically shaking occurring because of increased gun ownership amongst blacks.

This article assumes way too much and perpetuates the liberal hipster fever dream that someone else will save them so they can deny the rather dangerous reality they live in and the tenuous ropes that prop up their fantasy allowing them to pretend they live in a post violence world.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

I don't know enough about Trump to understand why racists see his presidency as permission to launch the recent shootings of, or threats against non-WASP looking people; or threats and damage against Jewish facilities.

Several attacks on minorities have been proven to be hoaxes. It is also possible that leftists are involved in some of the vandalism to create hysteria against Trump.

Hopefully these new firearms owners will get involved in competition and mix with others outside a minority specific club.

 

[fpgt72]

Actually I think it's sad that non right wingers now feel they need to arm themselves. I've had two friends who are gay recently buy pistols and ask me to take them shooting. They, and some of my non-white friends, are seriously concerned over the recent increases they perceive in anti- immigrant/non- christian/gay violence. I don't want to get into the whole fake news thing, because I would probably disagree with most members, but it's what they believe.

I applaud them for using their 2nd Amendment rights, whatever the reason.

I am late in this thread so if it is covered sorry.

These people are doing this because the current political climate. The left is trying its best to work people into a frenzy....normal john doe type people on the left and on the right. The D's are fueling hate...and are really a party pushing hate...it is really that simple. Trump will round up your kids, put you in jail, toss you out of the country, shoot you because you are X, Y or Z. None of it is accurate. All the talk will push some unstable people over the edge and do stupid things yes....it will make people on the lefts side do stupid things to try to pin it on the crazy Trumpers....and the poor people that pay the ultimate price for this is the people that are the targets.....so shameful.

 

[Mitlov]

I am late in this thread so if it is covered sorry.

These people are doing this because the current political climate. The left is trying its best to work people into a frenzy....normal john doe type people on the left and on the right. The D's are fueling hate...and are really a party pushing hate...it is really that simple. Trump will round up your kids, put you in jail, toss you out of the country, shoot you because you are X, Y or Z. None of it is accurate. All the talk will push some unstable people over the edge and do stupid things yes....it will make people on the lefts side do stupid things to try to pin it on the crazy Trumpers....and the poor people that pay the ultimate price for this is the people that are the targets.....so shameful.

Now hold on a second. One of my friends had to leave work to pick up her daughter from day care...because the day care was at a Jewish Community Center and the center had just received a bomb threat. One of dozens of such threats against JCCs in the past weeks. I think it's really unfair to say that whoever called in that threat did it because people, including myself, have criticized the Trump administration. People always criticize presidents--it was true with Obama, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, etc--and you don't normally see people threatening to blow up community centers full of children and the elderly over those criticisms. It's not a normal and expected response to criticism of the federal government, which is a fundamental part of American society.

 

[Mitlov]

Several attacks on minorities have been proven to be hoaxes. It is also possible that leftists are involved in some of the vandalism to create hysteria against Trump.

Hopefully these new firearms owners will get involved in competition and mix with others outside a minority specific club.

The two Indian engineers shot by a person screaming "get out of my country" was no hoax. While there's been a few isolated instances of hoaxes (as is always true), there's been no such evidence in the vast majority of bomb threats against JCCs and other hate crimes.

When a Muslim extremist conducts an attack, nobody assumes it's a hoax or false flag attack or starts talking about that possibility until there's actual evidence supporting the conspiracy theory. But it seems like white nationalist extremists are being held to a different standard. To have so many people (including the President himself) making such "maybe it's a false flag" comments about bomb threats against community centers despite a complete lack of hard evidence in most cases--bomb threats that have terrorized children and the elderly--is pretty disappointing.

I'm not saying your run-of-the-mill Trump supporter is a white nationalist. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that threats and attacks by white nationalists are skyrocketing, and it's frustrating in light of such threats against my community to have people saying "well maybe it's all just been faked by people who don't like Trump to try to make Trump look bad." Sorry, no.

 

[Sam1911]

Ok, while questions of false flag operations and hoaxes and debates over nationalism are probably worth thinking about, please let's not do so here.

The narrow question of this thread is about African American/Black people increasing their ownership of guns and, by extension, how that's a good thing for RKBA.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

The two Indian engineers shot by a person screaming "get out of my country" was no hoax. While there's been a few isolated instances of hoaxes (as is always true), there's been no such evidence in the vast majority of bomb threats against JCCs and other hate crimes.

When a Muslim extremist conducts an attack, nobody assumes it's a hoax or false flag attack or starts talking about that possibility until there's actual evidence supporting the conspiracy theory. But it seems like white nationalist extremists are being held to a different standard. To have so many people (including the President himself) making such "maybe it's a false flag" comments about bomb threats against community centers despite a complete lack of hard evidence in most cases--bomb threats that have terrorized children and the elderly--is pretty disappointing.

I'm not saying your run-of-the-mill Trump supporter is a white nationalist. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that threats and attacks by white nationalists are skyrocketing, and it's frustrating in light of such threats against my community to have people saying "well maybe it's all just been faked by people who don't like Trump to try to make Trump look bad." Sorry, no.

Okay, this is not a political board so I expect these comments will disappear or the thread closed, but until the culprits in hate crimes are identified, no one should be pointed out for blame. It is quite easy to find a list of hoaxes with a quick search of the net.

In any event, I am glad to see black Americans becoming interested in firearms as I think this will be an education for people previously pushed into supporting the very bigoted anti firearm moves.

 

[mokin]

So after taking the time to go quickly through the article and the comments, I have a few questions....

As the article is about African Americans becoming new gun owners, I'm guessing the recent purchases are handguns. Is there any evidence to show that this is the case?

Because "self-defense" is the stated cause for increase in this demographic, are people's attitudes toward those "EBRs" (I'm using that term to cover a wide variety of rifles) changing?

As much of this growth is likely in urban areas, is there a corresponding increase in places to shoot?

I noticed the article avoided mentioning the NRA. Does anybody have any information on an increase in membership, especially among new firearm owners?

I figure the article was meant to show just how afraid some members of communities were becoming and didn't really intend on offering much in depth information on how people's perspectives were changing and possible cultural implications, especially for those who generally oppose firearm ownership. As stated earlier, it is unfortunate that people are scared for their lives. It is good though that folks are open minded enough to look for protection and try to get some training. Hopefully this will lead to viewing shooting as a hobby and way to become part of a greater community.

 

[fpgt72]

Now hold on a second. One of my friends had to leave work to pick up her daughter from day care...because the day care was at a Jewish Community Center and the center had just received a bomb threat. One of dozens of such threats against JCCs in the past weeks. I think it's really unfair to say that whoever called in that threat did it because people, including myself, have criticized the Trump administration. People always criticize presidents--it was true with Obama, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, etc--and you don't normally see people threatening to blow up community centers full of children and the elderly over those criticisms. It's not a normal and expected response to criticism of the federal government, which is a fundamental part of American society.

ahh....yes.....however Trump is different....a blind man on a flying horse can see that.

People that went after Obama got shut down very quickly....save those on the "fringe"....those people are racist...that is the only reason they attack Obama. Clinton....well he was another darling. Bush....well I should not even have to outline the differences for you.

We had several issues here in Missouri as well. While I agree it COULD be the normal skin head type people.....this is not an empowered group.....no.....I am betting on one of two things....the Religion of peace or people trying to start _____