Soonerpesek
Member
Man.......................those are almost toooooo shiny n pretty to shoot............!
coated bullets
- Thread starter OLDE RETIRED COASTIE
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Man.......................those are almost toooooo shiny n pretty to shoot............!
I dipped my toe into the cast and coated world. I found good loads for 9mm, 38 Special, and 30-30, though the 30-30 is downloaded to a stout 9mm level. They are also among my most accurate loads. I use Acme Bullet Company for 9mm and 30-30. I have about 400 Gallant brand bullets in 38 and am working on a 357 Magnum load. I’ve probably pushed them up to 1200 fps my Blackhawk without issue. 30-30 had issues but they’re all worked out now I think.
FROGO207
Member
You will really like coated bullets I bet. Just make sure you expand the necks enough to keep from cutting the coating. I have used various coated bullets fron MB and like them a lot. Musta shot at least 10 boxes of 9 MM small ball coated so far.
If one chooses to purchase PCed/coated bullets, Acme Bullets has always supplied me with excellent product and good shipping (and neat wooden boxes!); http://www.acmebullet.com/index.php?route=common/home
Jdague12
Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2022
- Messages
- 137
I also like Eggleston bullets. You have the ability to select various diameter of each caliber. Comes in handy if you shoot anything through a Marlin with a micro-groove barrel and need the extra .001” for accuracy. .44 mag for me. Lots of color choices too.
Jim Watson
Member
I bought Brazos when Bayou got so far behind in orders.
I have Ibejiheads on order now.
I have Ibejiheads on order now.
Got to tell I've shot a lot of lead bullets in my lifetime. I found a place called DG bullets out of Wisconsin they make a great product. Not a huge selection but they sell hi tek coated bullets and for me they just work. I use 231 with 3 different calibers and coated bullets. consolidated to one powder after the plandemic not full power loads but good enough to practice fairly regularly. I have my stash of the good powers for when the time comes.
Crosshair
Member
Buying and shooting them, yes. Can shoot close to jacketed velocities without leading or a gas check. Lead or plated reloading data works well.
Doing them myself? No. Too much work vs a simple tumble lube. I keep thinking about it for low-volume stuff, but haven't yet.
Doing them myself? No. Too much work vs a simple tumble lube. I keep thinking about it for low-volume stuff, but haven't yet.
tightgroup tiger
Member
For any one who is interested in the 45 Colt/45Long Colt saga, Uncle Nick from the Firing Line Forum wrote a really good history of why the name changed from Colt's original 45 Colt, to being known as 45 Long Colt in the Civil War, and back to 45 Colt in 1928 when SAAMI was formed and started fixing the mess of cartridge names that was never regulated.
From Uncle Nick: the firing line.
There's a lot of very interesting history concerning the 45 Colt. Sam Colt designed the Colt Single Action Army revolver in 1871 .... Specifically for the US Army. At the time, the 45 Colt was one of the first centerfire cartridges. ... funny, it actually fired a .452" bullet but was called a 44 cal. 44 Colt ammo used hip seated bullets ... very much like today's 22 LR ammo where the lubrication is on the outside of the bullet. Outside lubrication collected dirt and made the cartridges difficult to chamber, so Sam Colt decided to design a better cartridge for his new revolver. Colt was not in the ammo manufacturing business so they teamed with Union Metallic Cartridge Co (UMC) to develop the 45 Colt cartridge. It started out with a .454" roundnose 250gr lead bullet, 40 gr of ffg black powder, mercury fulminate primers, and "balloon head" cases, also made much like today's 22 LR cases only they were center fire instead of rimfire.
When the US Army purchased the Colt SAA in 1873, they began loading ammo for it at the Frankford Arsenal. Two years later, Smith & Wesson sold the M1875 Schofield Revolver to the Army. This created problems ... the Schofield cartridge would chamber and shoot in the Colt SAA but the 45 Long Colt cartridge would not chamber in a S&W Schofield revolver ... plus the 45 Long Colt cartridge was a lot more powerful. Frankfort Arsenal reduced 45 long Colt's powder charge to 28 grains to make the ballistics about the same as a 45 Schofield and later eliminated the manufacture of 45 Colt cartridges altogether. Meanwhile, Colt sold the 45 Colt SAA to the civilian market and UMC made the ammo ... still with 40gr of black powder. At the time, Colt retained the patent on the cartridge and refused to let any other company (other than the Army) make ammo or other companies to make guns that were chambered in 45 Colt. As history shows, this actually hurt Colt more than it helped because popularity of the 45 Colt dwindled.
Prior to the 1920's, cartridges were patented by the company that designed them and did not allow other companies to manufacture ammo or guns chambered in their cartridge. Savage received a US patent for a 30-30 cartridge that was virtually identical to Winchester's 30 WCF. This resulted in a lengthy law suit in the 1920s between Winchester and Savage that ended up involving virtually all gun and ammo manufacturers. The courts decided to eliminate patents for cartridges, which allowed any company to manufacture any cartridge and any company could manufacture firearms chambered in another company's cartridge. Unfortunately, there were no established standards for ammo, chamber dimensions, bore diameters, or even official cartridge names. This created mass confusion with gun owners and manufacturers alike. In 1928, the very competitive shooting industry actually got together and formed an organization known as Small Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute ... aka SAAMI.
SAAMI's first priority was to establish "official names" for each different cartridge. Just like the 30-30 and 30 WCF, there were many other cartridges that shared the same design but had company proprietary names. During this time, the 45 Long Colt was renamed 45 Colt, however the old 45 Long Colt name still remains popular and is still used by many sources.
About the same time as when SAAMI was formed, the 45 Colt began its many changes. Mercury fulminate primers had already changed to potassium chlorate (corrosive) at about the turn of the century. Even after non-corrosive lead azide primers were invented, the US Army continued to use potassium chlorate primers, although Winchester and UMC had converted to lead azide primers by 1930. Black powder was being phased out and the new fandangled smokeless powder was being used in 45 Colts. During this transition, primers had a "dome" shape and had a "W" or "UMC" etched on the dome indicating the load was smokeless powder .... no etching for black powder. After all ammo manufacturers converted to smokeless powder, etched primers were eliminated.
For the next 30 years, Colt was the only company that still produced a revolver chambered in 45 Colt. Sales were mostly attributed to the new "movie industry" where Western cowboy movies were popular. Just after the Korean War, S&W decided to chamber their Mod 25 DA revolver in 45 Colt ... however they ran into problems because the already established 45 ACP version of the Mod 25 had a .451" bore and 45 Colts used a .454" bore. S&W petitioned SAAMI to change all 45 cal handguns to a .451" bore so they could produce just one barrel for both cartridges. Now the companies were involved so SAAMI then changed the specifications for the 45 Colt to a .451" bore (.452" lead bullet), however they maintained the original 1872 Colt chamber dimensions. At the time, balloon head cases were still being manufactured but this change in bullet diameter caused a problem so a new case was designed with a solid head. The new cases had walls that were .001" thicker, making a .002" difference in the outside diameter ... exactly the same as a thinner balloon head case with a .454" bullet (.480" OD). Note: Most reloading manuals have a caution about using the old inferior balloon head cases for reloading. The new solid head cases didn't work well with the old dome type primers so primers were changed again .... to the "flat face" Large Pistol Primer type that other ammo had been using for many years.
Because 45 Colt balloon head cases had a very weak rim, they were never used in lever action rifles because the rifle's extractor would rip the rim off and leave the spent case in the chamber. When the new solid head cases became popular, Winchester and Marlin started chambering their lever action rifles for 45 Colt. This presented a new problem because the old round nose type bullets could cause a chain detonation in tubular magazines, so the next change involved using a lead round nose flat tip bullet that prevented chain fires.
Every component of the 45 Colt has been changed since its introduction. The only thing that has remained constant is the chamber dimension. Primer ... 4 changes ... from mercury fulminate to potassium chlorate to lead azide dome to lead azide flat and now lead styphenate. Powder changed from black powder to smokeless. Cases ... from balloon head to solid head with thicker walls. Bullets changed from .454" diameter to .452" diameter and from lead round nose to lead round nose flat tip or flat nose jacketed bullets. So even though the cartridge is 140 years old, the modern version is less than 50 years old.
When Ruger introduced their 45 Colt SA Blackhawk and later, their 45 Colt Redhawk DA revolver, it didn't take long for people to realize 45 Colt chamber pressures could be pushed from a paltry 14,000 psi to more than double ... 30,000 psi. These "Ruger Only" loads could rival 44 Mag power levels. Dick Casull took it a step farther and started experimenting with 45 Colt pressures as high as 65,000 psi in specially modified revolvers. He decided to extend the length of his cartridges so they wouldn't chamber in a weaker 45 Colt ... and the 454 Casull was born. 454 Cass also uses small magnum rifle primers because pistol primers would not hold up to the extreme pressures. The 460 S&W Magnum is also a spinoff of the 45 Colt. Guns chambered for either of these two cartridges will also shoot 45 Colt ammo.
Meantime, Ruger has managed to confuse consumers with their mid-frame New Vaquero and Flattop SA revolvers. As stated in previous posts, these guns can not handle full power "Ruger Only" (30k psi) loads but will hold up to 23k psi. Colt SAAs and Colt clones are still SAAMI rated at 14k psi.
This is a straight copy of his post so the green links are all dead.
From Uncle Nick: the firing line.
There's a lot of very interesting history concerning the 45 Colt. Sam Colt designed the Colt Single Action Army revolver in 1871 .... Specifically for the US Army. At the time, the 45 Colt was one of the first centerfire cartridges. ... funny, it actually fired a .452" bullet but was called a 44 cal. 44 Colt ammo used hip seated bullets ... very much like today's 22 LR ammo where the lubrication is on the outside of the bullet. Outside lubrication collected dirt and made the cartridges difficult to chamber, so Sam Colt decided to design a better cartridge for his new revolver. Colt was not in the ammo manufacturing business so they teamed with Union Metallic Cartridge Co (UMC) to develop the 45 Colt cartridge. It started out with a .454" roundnose 250gr lead bullet, 40 gr of ffg black powder, mercury fulminate primers, and "balloon head" cases, also made much like today's 22 LR cases only they were center fire instead of rimfire.
When the US Army purchased the Colt SAA in 1873, they began loading ammo for it at the Frankford Arsenal. Two years later, Smith & Wesson sold the M1875 Schofield Revolver to the Army. This created problems ... the Schofield cartridge would chamber and shoot in the Colt SAA but the 45 Long Colt cartridge would not chamber in a S&W Schofield revolver ... plus the 45 Long Colt cartridge was a lot more powerful. Frankfort Arsenal reduced 45 long Colt's powder charge to 28 grains to make the ballistics about the same as a 45 Schofield and later eliminated the manufacture of 45 Colt cartridges altogether. Meanwhile, Colt sold the 45 Colt SAA to the civilian market and UMC made the ammo ... still with 40gr of black powder. At the time, Colt retained the patent on the cartridge and refused to let any other company (other than the Army) make ammo or other companies to make guns that were chambered in 45 Colt. As history shows, this actually hurt Colt more than it helped because popularity of the 45 Colt dwindled.
Prior to the 1920's, cartridges were patented by the company that designed them and did not allow other companies to manufacture ammo or guns chambered in their cartridge. Savage received a US patent for a 30-30 cartridge that was virtually identical to Winchester's 30 WCF. This resulted in a lengthy law suit in the 1920s between Winchester and Savage that ended up involving virtually all gun and ammo manufacturers. The courts decided to eliminate patents for cartridges, which allowed any company to manufacture any cartridge and any company could manufacture firearms chambered in another company's cartridge. Unfortunately, there were no established standards for ammo, chamber dimensions, bore diameters, or even official cartridge names. This created mass confusion with gun owners and manufacturers alike. In 1928, the very competitive shooting industry actually got together and formed an organization known as Small Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute ... aka SAAMI.
SAAMI's first priority was to establish "official names" for each different cartridge. Just like the 30-30 and 30 WCF, there were many other cartridges that shared the same design but had company proprietary names. During this time, the 45 Long Colt was renamed 45 Colt, however the old 45 Long Colt name still remains popular and is still used by many sources.
About the same time as when SAAMI was formed, the 45 Colt began its many changes. Mercury fulminate primers had already changed to potassium chlorate (corrosive) at about the turn of the century. Even after non-corrosive lead azide primers were invented, the US Army continued to use potassium chlorate primers, although Winchester and UMC had converted to lead azide primers by 1930. Black powder was being phased out and the new fandangled smokeless powder was being used in 45 Colts. During this transition, primers had a "dome" shape and had a "W" or "UMC" etched on the dome indicating the load was smokeless powder .... no etching for black powder. After all ammo manufacturers converted to smokeless powder, etched primers were eliminated.
For the next 30 years, Colt was the only company that still produced a revolver chambered in 45 Colt. Sales were mostly attributed to the new "movie industry" where Western cowboy movies were popular. Just after the Korean War, S&W decided to chamber their Mod 25 DA revolver in 45 Colt ... however they ran into problems because the already established 45 ACP version of the Mod 25 had a .451" bore and 45 Colts used a .454" bore. S&W petitioned SAAMI to change all 45 cal handguns to a .451" bore so they could produce just one barrel for both cartridges. Now the companies were involved so SAAMI then changed the specifications for the 45 Colt to a .451" bore (.452" lead bullet), however they maintained the original 1872 Colt chamber dimensions. At the time, balloon head cases were still being manufactured but this change in bullet diameter caused a problem so a new case was designed with a solid head. The new cases had walls that were .001" thicker, making a .002" difference in the outside diameter ... exactly the same as a thinner balloon head case with a .454" bullet (.480" OD). Note: Most reloading manuals have a caution about using the old inferior balloon head cases for reloading. The new solid head cases didn't work well with the old dome type primers so primers were changed again .... to the "flat face" Large Pistol Primer type that other ammo had been using for many years.
Because 45 Colt balloon head cases had a very weak rim, they were never used in lever action rifles because the rifle's extractor would rip the rim off and leave the spent case in the chamber. When the new solid head cases became popular, Winchester and Marlin started chambering their lever action rifles for 45 Colt. This presented a new problem because the old round nose type bullets could cause a chain detonation in tubular magazines, so the next change involved using a lead round nose flat tip bullet that prevented chain fires.
Every component of the 45 Colt has been changed since its introduction. The only thing that has remained constant is the chamber dimension. Primer ... 4 changes ... from mercury fulminate to potassium chlorate to lead azide dome to lead azide flat and now lead styphenate. Powder changed from black powder to smokeless. Cases ... from balloon head to solid head with thicker walls. Bullets changed from .454" diameter to .452" diameter and from lead round nose to lead round nose flat tip or flat nose jacketed bullets. So even though the cartridge is 140 years old, the modern version is less than 50 years old.
When Ruger introduced their 45 Colt SA Blackhawk and later, their 45 Colt Redhawk DA revolver, it didn't take long for people to realize 45 Colt chamber pressures could be pushed from a paltry 14,000 psi to more than double ... 30,000 psi. These "Ruger Only" loads could rival 44 Mag power levels. Dick Casull took it a step farther and started experimenting with 45 Colt pressures as high as 65,000 psi in specially modified revolvers. He decided to extend the length of his cartridges so they wouldn't chamber in a weaker 45 Colt ... and the 454 Casull was born. 454 Cass also uses small magnum rifle primers because pistol primers would not hold up to the extreme pressures. The 460 S&W Magnum is also a spinoff of the 45 Colt. Guns chambered for either of these two cartridges will also shoot 45 Colt ammo.
Meantime, Ruger has managed to confuse consumers with their mid-frame New Vaquero and Flattop SA revolvers. As stated in previous posts, these guns can not handle full power "Ruger Only" (30k psi) loads but will hold up to 23k psi. Colt SAAs and Colt clones are still SAAMI rated at 14k psi.
This is a straight copy of his post so the green links are all dead.
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