Coated vs non-coated cast lead projectiles (Mo. Bullet Co.)

[Rule3]

The RSO is exposed to more lead from primers than the bullets. Bullet splatter on the steel target is not what exposing him or anyone to lead.

You can educate them all you want but if they want to make a "rule" then you are out of luck.

Worst case, switch to Plated or TMJ bullets. (not FMJ)

From the coating company
http://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/about-our-coatings/


About our Coatings
Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings is bringinging cast bullets into the 21st century. The Hi-Tek Heat Set Supercoat was developed specifically for commercial bullet casters to provode reloaders with a cast bullet that didn't smoke and gum up reloading dies like a traditional wax lubed bullet. Properly applied the coating molecularly bonds to the lead, encasing the entire projectile in a protective shell that is self-lubricating. This proprietary coating contains no PTFE or Moly.

What this means to you? No messy wax lubes that smoke, gums up your reloading dies or bullet feeders. Since the bullet is totally encapsulated, it also greatly reduces your exposure to lead. Cleaner hands, cleaner guns and cleaner air are all benefits of the Hi-Tek Supercoat.

In use in it's native Australia for over 20 years. We introduced Hi-Tek Supercoat to the U.S. several years ago. It's been an overwhelming success by both commercial and home casters alike.


Here is another article:

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/3/7/coated-bullets-the-future-of-lead-bullets-for-handloaders/

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Having witnessed the sorrow that is acute lead poisioning first hand, I know it is nothing to be cavalier about.

Conversely, It feels strange that a Range Safety Officer would chide you about your handloads. Stranger still to mention to you no more cast. Was it to eveyone else, too? It seems like it would be printed in the information packet for the event. Then reinforced to the entire group. Be sure that everyone else knows, he has to suck fumes for ALL the shooters.
Like was said above, it seems lead AND Full Metal jacketed would be banned, were it about vaporized lead. Primers, too. Especially as the lead compound they contain is more readily absorbed than pure elemental lead.
Still, these are the rules. I commend you for trying to adapt first, rather than being angry and quitting. That is always an option later.

Further, I love the coated bullets. I load nothing else for my Fourty Five Autos. I enjoy the colors, though I usually get red. I enjoy cleaner hands while handloading, really, cleaner everything! I can put my bullets in my pocket if I'd like. Fuzz and grit won't stick to them and go down the bore, either. MBC, Blues, Precision, SNS, Bayou, I like them all. Really liking Acme as of late...

I think he was just giving me a heads up, as a courtesy, because he knows I'm one of the few, or the only one, who shoots cast lead in that group. Everyone else shoots an autoloader which mostly means FMJ.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

The RSO is exposed to more lead from primers than the bullets. Bullet splatter on the steel target is not what exposing him or anyone to lead.

You can educate them all you want but if they want to make a "rule" then you are out of luck.

Yep. And that's how it's going to play out.

I revisited this tonight after shooting the league, and no dice. The rangemaster is convinced that lead hitting steel targets downrange is exposing his range officers to inhalation lead, and that cast lead bullets produce twice the amount of lead exposure than jacketed. When I asked about lead from primers, he said it was insignificant compared to that produced by projectiles.

Apparently, the fact that I'm the ONLY competitor shooting cast lead (and, IMO makes me an insignificant contributor to the problem) didn't seem to hold water. And, to be honest, why would someone reverse course if it negatively impacts only one person?

However, I can shoot the coated cast lead projectiles. So now I have to order another 1500 projectiles (of which I just received 1500 non-coated; I had already bought enough for the next season) and the 1500 I have are now nearly worthless.

 

[troy fairweather]

Yep. And that's how it's going to play out.

I revisited this tonight after shooting the league, and no dice. The rangemaster is convinced that lead hitting steel targets downrange is exposing his range officers to inhalation lead, and that cast lead bullets produce twice the amount of lead exposure than jacketed. When I asked about lead from primers, he said it was insignificant compared to that produced by projectiles.

Apparently, the fact that I'm the ONLY competitor shooting cast lead (and, IMO makes me an insignificant contributor to the problem) didn't seem to hold water. And, to be honest, why would someone reverse course if it negatively impacts only one person?

However, I can shoot the coated cast lead projectiles. So now I have to order another 1500 projectiles (of which I just received 1500 non-coated; I had already bought enough for the next season) and the 1500 I have are now nearly worthless.

sorry for your luck. i guess they never seen a jacketed/coated bullet after it hits the plates. i would offer to buy those lead bullets for the pcc i should be getting soon, but the shipping would suck.

 

[Rule3]

Well, they are acting out of "false" beliefs. You can show them all the scientific proof and it would not matter. They believe what they want to believe.
The coated bullets will splatter just like regular lead, they do not "vaporize" into dust to inhale. Geesh how close does the RSO stand next to a steel plate target?

Selling and shipping the bullets is not a big deal. Just as MBC uses USPS Flat rate you can do the same. It will cost you maybe $20.00 to ship them.

I am tired of regular lubed bullets (smoke and mess)so I melted the lube off of a bunch of 230 gr 45 ACP, cleaned them they powder coated them (shake and bake) It's a PITA and then resized them (had to buy a resize die), I am not gonna do it for all the 9mm and handgun lead I have.

 

[Demi-human]

The rangemaster is convinced that lead hitting steel targets downrange is exposing his range officers to inhalation lead...

It truly is a shame when someone who is supposed to have experience and knowledge does not. He IS at more risk. Just not how he imagines it happens...

I can understand the feelings of being singled out. As, clearly you are. But again, I must commend you for adapting and over coming the lack of reason. If one wishes to play, it must be by their rules, however misinformed they are...

Now, about the unacceptable bullets. Worthless, they are not. I hope you can use them for practicing domination on the field. Firing twice the number of bullets as the rest of your competitors should count toward something. Especially regarding the dubious nature of the rule changes.

Imagine the looks you'll receive when you thank them for putting you on to the coated bullets, from the winners podium...


Best Wishes,
D. Human

 

[243winxb]

this article might be of interest:

Some coated bullets smell a little funny when fired. People have likened the smell to burning plastic.

Possible Carcinogen? TGIC-free? Post 13. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/lead-alloy-input-sought.759725/#post-9590167

 

[Dudedog]

DB, if you bought the non-coated ones from MBC you might call them and explain the problem.
They might let you return them and exchange for coated ones.

 

[35 Whelen]

I'm still in complete disbelief that a profoundly misinformed RO is causing this much trouble.

35W

 

[foxmeadow]

I have friends that worked at an indoor range. They related to me that sweeping the range after hours got to be a sweaty job, as the sweepings were HEAVY with lead particles. Unburned powder made up the rest of the sweepings. That range instituted the jacketed-bullet-only rule and the weight of the sweepings dropped by 90%. Sounds like lead dust was generated by the bullets leaving the barrel and flying downrange.

This was a modern range, with powerful ventilation and snail type bullet traps. Also, this all happened before coated bullets became popular.

 

[Tilos]

Possible Carcinogen? TGIC-free? Post 13. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/lead-alloy-input-sought.759725/#post-9590167

Thanks for the link
Info there may be the reason there's no factory loaded/coated ammo sold in the US that I know of, the coating being a possible carcinogen.
I'll keep shooting them though,

 

[fxvr5]

Thanks for the link
Info there may be the reason there's no factory loaded/coated ammo sold in the US that I know of, the coating being a possible carcinogen.
I'll keep shooting them though,

Federal has several 9mm loads with coated bullets.

 

[Texas10mm]

Thanks for the link
Info there may be the reason there's no factory loaded/coated ammo sold in the US that I know of, the coating being a possible carcinogen.
I'll keep shooting them though,

Hmm... CCI sells coated .22 LR, Federal has the Syntech, and I've seen remanufactured ammo with coated bullets for sale.

 

[35 Whelen]

Hmm... CCI sells coated .22 LR, Federal has the Syntech, and I've seen remanufactured ammo with coated bullets for sale.

Which begs the question- What about the thousands of tons of .22 rimfire bullets that are fired at ranges every year?

35W

 

[Tilos]

Hmm... CCI sells coated .22 LR, Federal has the Syntech, and I've seen remanufactured ammo with coated bullets for sale.

Federal has several 9mm loads with coated bullets.

OK then
Thanks for the info

 

[kcofohio]

Yep. And that's how it's going to play out.

I revisited this tonight after shooting the league, and no dice. The rangemaster is convinced that lead hitting steel targets downrange is exposing his range officers to inhalation lead, and that cast lead bullets produce twice the amount of lead exposure than jacketed. When I asked about lead from primers, he said it was insignificant compared to that produced by projectiles.

Apparently, the fact that I'm the ONLY competitor shooting cast lead (and, IMO makes me an insignificant contributor to the problem) didn't seem to hold water. And, to be honest, why would someone reverse course if it negatively impacts only one person?

However, I can shoot the coated cast lead projectiles. So now I have to order another 1500 projectiles (of which I just received 1500 non-coated; I had already bought enough for the next season) and the 1500 I have are now nearly worthless.

You could list the 1500 non-coated in the buy, sell, trade reloading components sub-forum. I'm sure someone would buy them.

 

[Rule3]

Possible Carcinogen? TGIC-free? Post 13. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/lead-alloy-input-sought.759725/#post-9590167

But do we know if or what powder coated or POLYMER coated bullets contain TGIC??

Are the under California Prop 65 warning??

 

[Rule3]

Which begs the question- What about the thousands of tons of .22 rimfire bullets that are fired at ranges every year?

35W

Great point!! But they are no gonna worry about those as they are so small and don't give off big clouds of smoke.

The RSO seems to be "visually" afraid. Kinda people eat with their eyesight. If it looks good then it must be, if it looks bad then it's bad,

 

[Blue68f100]

You may want to take a collection of jacketed bullets showing the exposed lead. I bet he has no idea of how bullets are constructed.

I wish you luck but his mind is made up. What does the owner operator has to say about the RO request?

 

[35 Whelen]

You may want to take a collection of jacketed bullets showing the exposed lead. I bet he has no idea of how bullets are constructed.

I wish you luck but his mind is made up. What does the owner operator has to say about the RO request?

This is a very good point. Unless a bullet is totally encapsulated, the same thing will occur, and even then an encapsulated bullet that strikes steel will rupture the jacket.

35W

 

[troy fairweather]

You should shoot black powder loads your first match, just cause. Let us know what bullets you try.

 

[Blue68f100]

Some powders run hot and generate more smoke than others do when shooting lead. I had a shooter next to me one time ask what I was using for powder. His loads were generating a lot of smoke and soot on his SS gun. He looked at mine after I shot 100 rounds and it was cleaner than his after 1 magazine. So maybe a powder change will help lower the smoke too. I was shooting my 1911 in 45acp using MB 185gr LSWC (12 bhn), with my favorite powder WST.

 

[243winxb]

But do we know if or what powder coated or POLYMER coated bullets contain TGIC??

A SDS or MSDS of the products would help. http://preppersvoice.com/2016/06/18/harbor-freight-powder-coating-msds-material-safety-data-sheets/ None listed . This seems ok. But may be abrasive?

TGIC does not require a warning in the USA.

There doesnt seem to be a sds or msds anywhere for the Hi-Tek Heat Set Supercoat . If i used it, i would ask the manufacture or Missouri Bullet Company for it.

 

[Texas10mm]

Hi-Tek is totally different than powder coat. It's not a TGIC product.

 

[243winxb]

This may be a clue -

The lowest cure temperature that can be obtained with TGIC-free products is in the 315°F range, while TGIC products can be formulated to cure as low as 280°F.

If the instruction say to bake Hi-Tek Heat Set Supercoat at the higher temperature, its TGIC free?

https://www.pfonline.com/articles/are-tgic-free-powder-coatings-right-for-you