Coated vs non-coated cast lead projectiles (Mo. Bullet Co.)

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35 Whelen said:
Which begs the question- What about the thousands of tons of .22 rimfire bullets that are fired at ranges every year?

35W
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I didn't even think to ask about this. There's a lot of guys who are shooting the same league in the rimfire pistol and rifle divisions, but I wouldn't be surprised for them to get a free pass because they're small and light.
 
Blue68f100 said:
You may want to take a collection of jacketed bullets showing the exposed lead. I bet he has no idea of how bullets are constructed.

I wish you luck but his mind is made up. What does the owner operator has to say about the RO request?
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The guy knows ammo. He loads a lot of 9mm TMJ. He's actually pretty good at his job overall; I just think he's totally wrong on this.

I have thought about going to the next board meeting to complain to the board about it. Especially if he exempts rimfires. Then again, do I really want the head rangmaster pissed at me? Especially knowing I'm not going to win that p-eeing contest?
 
Dudedog said:
DB, if you bought the non-coated ones from MBC you might call them and explain the problem.
They might let you return them and exchange for coated ones.
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They sell their coating as a DIY kit, and it's not expensive. However, the only way I have to bake it on is my kitchen oven, and Im not going to put lead and paint in the same oven where I cook my food.
 
kcofohio said:
You could list the 1500 non-coated in the buy, sell, trade reloading components sub-forum. I'm sure someone would buy them.
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I would probably try to sell them locally first, to save the shipping. I already paid to ship them here; by they time I ship them again, I'll have lost a good chunk of the value of the projectiles.
 
D.B. Cooper said:
They sell their coating as a DIY kit, and it's not expensive. However, the only way I have to bake it on is my kitchen oven, and Im not going to put lead and paint in the same oven where I cook my food.
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That, and you'd have to heat them up to melt off the traditional lube, then wash them with some toxic chemical to get them squeaky clean to coat.:(

D.B. Cooper said:
The guy knows ammo. He loads a lot of 9mm TMJ. He's actually pretty good at his job overall; I just think he's totally wrong on this.
I have thought about going to the next board meeting to complain to the board about it. Especially if he exempts rimfires. Then again, do I really want the head rangmaster pissed at me? Especially knowing I'm not going to win that p-eeing contest?
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Sounds like you have a work-around now, no reason to keep pushing the issue and risk becoming "that guy".:uhoh:
:D
 
Tilos said:
That, and you'd have to heat them up to melt off the traditional lube, then wash them with some toxic chemical to get them squeaky clean to coat.:(
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I've boiled off the lube and powder coated after they dried. Just let the water cool, and the lube solidify before you take them out. Works good . You would need to resize them afterwords as the powder coat will make them too big.
 
One thing I I thought of though is can I load these (non coated projectiles) up as 44 magnum. They're brinell 12 and marketed as "for 44-40 and 44 special velocities," but I wonder if I could a gas check under them and push them faster.
 
Instructions for the Hi-Tek coating.
https://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/coating-instructions/

Note: 10. An oven that can hold a temperature fairly well. You will need to test ovens ability to hold at set temperatures and temperature set accuracy. (A toaster oven with a circulation fan can, be obtained cheaply and works great)

And the RO probably wouldn't change his mind if you jumped out of an airplane and handed him a satchel of cash. :D
 
The hardest part about powder coating the bullets that you have will be finding someone with a resizer. I powder coated some .355 124 9mm conicals, and it added about 0.003 to the diameter. I'm using them for .38 spc. now.

You probably can do 1500 bullets for 0.02 to 0.03 each if you get a good deal on a flea market toaster oven.
 
Laphroaig said:
The hardest part about powder coating the bullets that you have will be finding someone with a resizer. I powder coated some .355 124 9mm conicals, and it added about 0.003 to the diameter. I'm using them for .38 spc. now.

You probably can do 1500 bullets for 0.02 to 0.03 each if you get a good deal on a flea market toaster oven.
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You can use a press mounted Lee resizer. Midway has them on sale for $20. Lee made them for use with Alox, but they good on coated bullets. I learned about the use at castboolits.com. Lube/coat before sizing. The coating/lube is needed to push the bullet thru.
 
Jesse Heywood said:
You can use a press mounted Lee resizer. Midway has them on sale for $20. Lee made them for use with Alox, but they good on coated bullets. I learned about the use at castboolits.com. Lube/coat before sizing. The coating/lube is needed to push the bullet thru.
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I buy coated bullets 0.358 for 38/357 and have Lee sizing dies for 0.356/0.357/0.358 dia. that I use to resize bullets for 9mm use.
That way I only buy/stock "38" bullets (mostly 125RN) and no 9mm.
works for me,
:D
 
Well good news. I learned tonight that the "powers that be" is going to postpone the ban on uncoated cast lead until after the next season (which starts next week). That means I can use up my existing supply, although, I've already ordered 1k coated projectiles.

Come to find out... the rangermaster attended some class put on by NSSF at this year's SHOT show...and THAT'S what is driving this anti-lead talk. Apparently, NSSF is jumping on the green band wagon on this.
 
Texas10mm said:
What part of it's not a powder coat don't you understand?

So you're saying the roast I did the other day might have TGIC because I set the oven at 350.

Powder coat is a dry powdery substance that's a PAINT. Hi-Tek is a liquid.
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But of course you KNOW that the Polymer HI Tex comes as a powder also and can be then mixed with acetone to form a liquid to apply.

True, Hi Tex Coating and Powder coating are not the same.

But guess what? Powder Coat Paint is indeed a Polymer.

"Powder coatings are based on polymer resin systems, combined with curatives, pigments, leveling agents, flow modifiers, and other additives."
 
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Come to find out... the rangermaster attended some class put on by NSSF at this year's SHOT show...and THAT'S what is driving this anti-lead talk. Apparently, NSSF is jumping on the green band wagon on this.
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Google some combination of "lead" and "firing ranges" and you will find pages detailing the findings of uncountless studies. Shooting exposes us to lead that can enter the bloodstream. If you read enough, you will find studies that indicate lead bullets put out far more lead than jacketed. Just by shooting, not hitting a steel target.

If you have had your lead levels checked, and they are not very high, feel free to comment. If you haven't had a blood check recently maybe you should. I've found mine was elevated (18) and have taken steps to reduce it. I think its unfair to categorize the RO as a sissy or someone to doesn't know what he is talking about. Maybe he is concerned with his health and loves shooting. There are ways to do both.
 
Laphroaig said:
Google some combination of "lead" and "firing ranges" and you will find pages detailing the findings of uncountless studies. Shooting exposes us to lead that can enter the bloodstream. If you read enough, you will find studies that indicate lead bullets put out far more lead than jacketed. Just by shooting, not hitting a steel target.

If you have had your lead levels checked, and they are not very high, feel free to comment. If you haven't had a blood check recently maybe you should. I've found mine was elevated (18) and have taken steps to reduce it. I think its unfair to categorize the RO as a sissy or someone to doesn't know what he is talking about. Maybe he is concerned with his health and loves shooting. There are ways to do both.
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I've had my lead levels checked - most recently this January (it was 3 at that time). At one time not too long ago I was putting 20k rounds a year downrange, much of it indoors and virtually all of the bullets bare lead or coated.

A properly ventilated area goes a long way toward reducing lead exposure. Equally, a bullet with the proper BHN shouldn't cause any issues if it isn't driven past its limits (assuming it fits the bore properly). Lead styphnate (found in many primers) is considered a toxic material due to heavy metal poisoning. It has a detonation velocity around 5,200 m/s (over 15,000 fps). At those speeds you are far more likely to see atomization of lead particulate which may pose an inhalation hazard than from the bullet itself. Lead is of course heavy, causing all but the smallest of particles to fall fairly quickly after exiting the muzzle.
 
Laphroaig said:
Google some combination of "lead" and "firing ranges" and you will find pages detailing the findings of uncountless studies. Shooting exposes us to lead that can enter the bloodstream. If you read enough, you will find studies that indicate lead bullets put out far more lead than jacketed. Just by shooting, not hitting a steel target.

If you have had your lead levels checked, and they are not very high, feel free to comment. If you haven't had a blood check recently maybe you should. I've found mine was elevated (18) and have taken steps to reduce it. I think its unfair to categorize the RO as a sissy or someone to doesn't know what he is talking about. Maybe he is concerned with his health and loves shooting. There are ways to do both.
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You are correct, if one Googles enough, reads enough, researches enough and just really wants to, one can find information that feeds ones worries. Good grief....exposure to lead at an outdoor range?? If I was the RO and was that concerned about lead exposure, instead of expecting EVERYONE to change based on MY personal concerns, I would find another hobby. Talk about narcissism.

35W
 
Rule3 said:
But of course you KNOW that the Polymer HI Tex comes as a powder also and can be then mixed with acetone to form a liquid to apply.

True, Hi Tex Coating and Powder coating are not the same.

But guess what? Powder Coat Paint is indeed a Polymer.

"Powder coatings are based on polymer resin systems, combined with curatives, pigments, leveling agents, flow modifiers, and other additives."
Click to expand...

I know that you can buy Hi-Tek as a powder. But you can't apply it as a powder. You HAVE to use acetone to activate the ingredients.
 
Here are some of the issues concerning airborne lead.

Laidlaw, M.A.S., Filippelli, G., Mielke, H., Gulson, B. and Ball, A.S. (2017) Lead exposure

at firing ranges—a review. Environmental Health, 16:34. https://ehjournal.biomedcentral.com/

articles/10.1186/s12940-017-0246-0



Even outdoor instructors show elevated lead blood levels.

Tripathi, R.K., Sherertz, P.C., Gerald C. Llewellyn, G.C. and Carl W. Armstrong, C.W.

(1991) Lead Exposure in Outdoor Firearm Instructors. Am J Public Health, 81: 753-755.
 
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