College kids wear gun holsters to protest bans on concealed carry

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Desertdog

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I believe the adult students should be able to carry arms as the American Constitution says in the Second Amendmnt.


Weapons grade: Students fight to pack heat
College kids wear gun holsters to protest bans on concealed carry

By Chelsea Schilling

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=138285


College students across America have been strapping on empty gun holsters this week to protest laws and policies prohibiting licensed concealed carry on college campuses.

The week-long protests are sponsored by Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, or SCCC, a grass-roots organization of more than 44,000 college students, faculty members and citizens who support the right to self-defense on campus. The group has members in all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

The group formed shortly after the Virginia Tech massacre on April 16, 2007, in which a gunman brutally murdered 32 students and faculty members and injured 17 more before killing himself.

"Recent high-profile shootings and armed abductions on college campuses clearly demonstrate that 'gun-free zones' serve to disarm only those law-abiding citizens who might otherwise be able to protect themselves," the SCCC website states.

SCCC lists 24 states that expressly prohibit concealed carry on college campuses by those with valid concealed handgun licenses and permits: Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont and Wyoming. Texas specifically prohibits concealed firearms on campus but allows individual colleges to "opt out" of the law.

An additional 15 states "right-to-carry" states – Alaska, Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Virginia, Washington, and West Virginia – let colleges decide whether to allow concealed carry on campus. Licensed individuals who are caught with firearms on campus may not be held criminally liable, but they may be expelled or fired by the colleges.

SCCC states, "Utah is the only state to allow concealed carry at all public colleges/universities, by prohibiting public colleges/universities from creating their own restrictions."

According to the group, colleges have not only discriminated against concealed carry permit holders, they often censor students who disagree by ignoring or attempting to stop students from discussing the issue of concealed carry.

SCCC member Christine Brashier reported being banned from handing out fliers about the group by a Pennsylvania college that purportedly told her, "You may want to discuss this topic but the college does not, and you cannot make us."


During the spring 2009 semester, Texas' Tarrant County College tried to stop students from wearing empty holsters on campus until a federal judge ruled that the ban violated the First Amendment.

"[T]he disruptive activities provision, as applied to student SCCC members to prevent them from wearing empty holsters on campus or in the classroom, violates such students' First Amendment right to free speech. … Tarrant County College District, its officials, employees, and agents, be and they are hereby PERMANENTLY ENJOINED from prohibiting Clayton Smith, John Schwertz Jr., and any other Tarrant County College District student from wearing empty holsters in TCC's classrooms, on the TCC campuses' streets and sidewalks, and in the TCC campuses' outdoor common areas, such as lawns and plazas."

"Colleges aren't content to ban the right of self-defense anymore," said SCCC spokesman David Burnett. "Now they're trying to suspend the right to freedom of speech. They want to silence us and hope we'll go away. It's outrageous and our membership cares too much about self-defense to remain silent."

SCCC argues that there is no pragmatic basis for declaring college campuses off-limits to concealed carry by the same trained, licensed adults who lawfully carry concealed handguns in office buildings, movie theaters, grocery stores, shopping malls, restaurants, churches, banks and other locations. SCCC cites the following reasons for allowing licensed firearms on campus:

Independent researchers and state agencies agree that concealed handgun license holders are five times less likely than non-license holders to commit violent crimes.
No other type of location has seen an increased rate of violent crime since concealed carry became legal there.
Eleven U.S. colleges/universities that currently allow concealed carry on campus (and have done so for a combined total of more than 80 semesters) have not seen any resulting incidents of gun violence, gun accidents or gun thefts.
College campuses are open environments that lack screening measures such as metal detectors, X-ray machines and controlled points of entry.
SCCC lists two main functions of its organization: 1) to dispel common myths and misconceptions about concealed carry on college campuses and 2) to push state legislators and school administrators to grant concealed handgun license holders the same rights on college campuses that licensees enjoy in other unsecured locations.

"Compulsory defenselessness doesn't make students safer; it makes them less safe," Burnett said. "A piece of paper taped to the door saying guns are against the rules has yet to stop a criminal, whether a mass shooter or an armed rapist. It merely assures the criminal that victims are incapable of effective resistance."

He noted that there are no security checkpoints or metal detectors on college campuses, and colleges have little control over what criminals bring on the college grounds.

"Until they can take responsibility for our safety and guarantee our protection, colleges can't be allowed to deny us the right to self-defense."
 
"Eleven U.S. colleges/universities that currently allow concealed carry on campus (and have done so for a combined total of more than 80 semesters) have not seen any resulting incidents of gun violence, gun accidents or gun thefts. "

This should be proof enough for the anti's in the ivory tower, if they had a shred of academic integrity. The hypothesis (more guns less crime) has been tested, and so far has been proven. Their hypothesis (OMG drunken shootouts at the frat houses!) has been disproven. I guess scientific method doesn't count for anything on college campuses any more.

Logic is useless in the face of emotion.
 
^^^^^
The problem isn't that the ivory tower eggheads don't use the scientific method. The problem is that acknowledging the facts in this case would destroy their world view and that's a tough thing to have to deal with for anyone.

So they just ignore the facts - that way they can move on thru their lives in a state of false bliss without having to suffer the slings and arrows of reality.
 
Nah, they just don't want to get sued.

Putting that another way, they'd rather that people die in the rare murder than they get sued.

Or put this way: They'd rather take public money (in the case of publicly supported institutions) and deny the free exercise rights than get sued if, while allowing the free exercise of rights, one student injures another (speech-wise or ND-wise).
 
I'm a college professor and I think that you would be surprised by how many of us support RKBA. While it is true that certain departments are off the deep end to the left, the sciences, mathematics, economics, and other more 'practical' disciplines are probably a somewhat typical cross section of the political spectrum.

I think the primary issue is one of liability. Although college 'kids' are legally adults, parents still treat universities like daycare and are inclined to sue the college if something happens to their child. Legal precedents have shown that you are much more likely to get sued if someone gets hurt by a gun that was not restricted rather than if someone gets hurt because they were unable to defend themselves. It's a flawed logic, but it is the courts and insurance companies, not the universities themselves, that dictate this policy.
 
It's a flawed logic, but it is the courts and insurance companies, not the universities themselves, that dictate this policy.
Bull Pelosi! And that's no shot at you Chem Guy - you're absolutely right about the science and engineering dept profs being a more representative cross section re: firearms views than the rest of the depts (with the possible exception of the business college which at OU anyway was pretty right leaning - or was when I attended).

For a private university one might almost buy your argument. For a public one - no way.

For example the issue of CCW on college campuses came up in the 2009 OK Legislative session. David Boren (D) president of OU and ex US Senator for OK got in front of the media and the guy was almost in tears begging (not an exageration) the legislature not to pass CCW for college campuses. If it was all about liability and insurance he could have said that but didn't. The legislature could have provided immunity from civil suit for colleges and universities as they did for home owners in our castle doctrine laws but the university presidents didn't ask.

It's not about liability and insurance its about politics. And the guys running colleges and universities are pretty much left wingers and that is what drives their view about CCW on campus.
 
I personally believe pushing for conceal carry rights on college campus is extremely important. Virginia Tech was a clear example of that. I also beleive it should be allowed in churchs as well. Law makers against and various gun control groups are only fooling themselves and others to think a so called gun free zone is safe. Its anything but. Virginia tech would not have gone down like that had students had the right. ABC (horrible lying network) did a poor and biased 20/20 show to even down play the importance of the right to arms for personal defense. It was an ignorant, baised program with no substance to reality. Keep fighting for the right of the law abiding to carry the means to defend themselves and not rely on a reactionary law system.
 
I'm so sick and tired of grown adults being called "kids" simply because they attend a higher learning center vs going out and getting a job.
 
krochus:
They are kids, in so far as many of them have failed to learn the basic lessons of life, that you have to work to support yourself, that you are responsible for your own actions, that actions have consequences and that you are responsible for your own defence.

Probably the biggest failing of modern education and parenting is that it seeks to hide these basic rules.
 
Radagast,

I'm a college student and your short sightedness is shocking.

When you start to determine who's "responsible enough" aren't you taking the same stance anti's have: "that we all aren't responsible enough to carry and the world would be safer in no one carried"? There isn't some responsibility test that they administer at the age of 18 (legal adult) or 21 (handgun purchase and drinking).

You also seem to think most college kids don't work? In the case of handgun carry... at over 21 the ones that don't work are long gone. Even despite that, you're foolish to paint such a blanket statement. Many struggle and work jobs to get through college.
 
krochus:
They are kids, in so far as many of them have failed to learn the basic lessons of life, that you have to work to support yourself, that you are responsible for your own actions, that actions have consequences and that you are responsible for your own defence.

Probably the biggest failing of modern education and parenting is that it seeks to hide these basic rules.

Radagast,

Ok, I agree that there are some college kids who are undoubtedly immature and childish, but there is an equal percent of non-college student civilians who are eligible for a carry permit that are equally immature and childish. Wisdom does not always come with age, establishment or position my friend. Where do you draw the line? Can you draw a line without dividing the rest of society as well? Colleges are rather diverse places much like the rest of the world.

I am a full time college student working on a degree in nuclear engineering who is married with a child and working full time (and still try to read one book every two weeks of my own choosing). I am in my mid-twenties and have been on my own, and completely supporting myself, since age 16. I've traveled almost all of America and several foreign countries. I've buried several good friends and my brother. I've paid my mother's bills when she couldn't. Etc Etc Etc. Do I sound like I know nothing of life? Should I not be allowed to defend myself against another VT scenario? If this is in fact how you feel, you would fit in perfectly with all of the professors and administration who feel that students should line up and be shot like cattle in the event of a shooting.

How many adult, college grad., established individuals are out there today who still don't seem to know much about life? A great many. You have made a rash generalization that IMO was rather judgmental and reasonably unsound.
 
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xwingband, c919 I am not advocating not allowing firearms ownership by college students, in fact the opposite, as firearms ownership tends to cause people to act responsibly in my experience. If anything I'm inclined to make it compulsory, it's worked quite well for the Swiss.
If I have insulted you I apologize, I'm 40 and practising for when I get to yell 'get off my lawn'.
I have friends a few years older than me who can remember being issued service rifles in the high school cadets and taking them home on the bus or train, with the teachers pet of the week getting to take the Bren LMG home to clean (Smart teachers. Must have read Tom Sawyer). No school shootings back them either.

As the captain of a university rifle and pistol club I did encounter, for want of a better term, dead beat kids with no sense of responsibility, but a large sense of entitlement. Attending govt. paid university, receiving govt. welfare payments (think unemployment benefits for students), government health care, government subsidised housing, and a belief that the govt could and should regulate everything.
One young lady comes to mind, a political science major who lectured me on the evils of white conservative men and then tried to get her boyfriend to fight me when she lost the argument. She obtained a govt job and was sent to South Africa, where she hopped out of a car to pat the big kitty with predictable results.

One of the arguments in the Australian university system is that hard science students should be made to study arts units to make them well rounded individuals. As these courses don't seem to cover practical ethics and responsibility I don't see this as offering any value, it's just an attempt to replicate a particular mind set that sees academia as the world.
Enough ranting. Good luck to you both, I hope you continue to do well.
 
They are kids, in so far as many of them have failed to learn the basic lessons of life, that you have to work to support yourself, that you are responsible for your own actions, that actions have consequences and that you are responsible for your own defence.

I resent the implication that college students are irresponsible. I am a college student. I am attending part time, getting prerequisites done in preparation for my retirement, when I will be going back to school part time to get a Master's Degree. My oldest child is a college graduate. I have a CCW. I am a veteran. I think I have a pretty good handle on life's lessons.

Before you berate people for not learning life's basic lessons, learn a basic spelling lesson- the word is "defenSe"
 
Hell, I paid for a good part of my college tuition by gunsmithing!
 
f I have insulted you I apologize, I'm 40 and practising for when I get to yell 'get off my lawn'.

Haha, no hard feelings. I just tend to take this particular issue very seriously. It really doesn't get the attention it deserves. I wish more people in the gun community would actively get behind this one.

I know most firearms enthusiasts are not college students and are generally older than the average college student. Plus, many attended college in a safer time period. Nowadays it's different on the campuses. Hopefully this movement will pick up speed and some changes will be made so us college students can protect ourselves if something were to happen. As it stands now, we are sitting ducks for any psyco ala' VT.

I would hate for my daughter to grow up without a father of mother (the wife takes one class per semester as well) because we were not trusted enough to have the means to protect ourselves in the campus setting.

I know the following statement is a sentiment that has been expressed many times over, but still stands relevant. Why should I be permitted to carry in the grocery store, on the street, at the mall, etc, but not in school? Now that's bad logic if you ask me.
 
The university version of the Second Amendment:

"An attending citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms, when it is demonstrated to the powers that be that they possess the requisite maturity as determined by said powers, and further that permitted bearers cannot hold said powers liable for any gun related incidents regardless of how many innocent lives are saved in the process of defending against life threatening acts, provided that the allowed weapons are carried only on days when the student to faculty ratio is 1:0 and there is a cow jumping over the moon".:rolleyes:
 
Let me just throw this quote out there, the same over used quote that EVERYONE should know.
"If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns"

I don't think any school shooting could have been avoided by putting a BAN into effect.

WARNING THIS NEXT PHRASE IS NOT ME NOR WOULD I EVER DO THIS...EVER
If i really wanted to kill someone, i would just go out buy a gun from a local gang and go to school and start shooting. The only difference is i would get out alive.

On the flip side:
If i were CCing and someone burst into my class shooting it WOULD BE MET WITH RETURN FIRE. Potentially saving lives.(i don't have my CC so i don't know the rules & restrictions - if i broke a rule I’m sorry)

2A - That sums it all up.
 
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This is why I loved getting my education in UT... many of us were lawfully packing guns to school on a daily basis, and no one got shot. Who'da known...
 
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