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Colleges: Don't use real weapons, throw your laptop at 'em

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by myrockfight, Aug 26, 2008.

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  1. myrockfight

    myrockfight Member

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    I read this and thought it was quite ignorantly flying in the face of the obvious. I would think we all support the right to carry on campus. I really don't understand the lack of logic. :banghead: I added bold for emphasis.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080826/ap_on_re_us/campus_shooting_classes

    Colleges confront shootings with survival training

    KANSAS CITY, Mo. - Hundreds of colleges across the nation have purchased a training program that teaches professors and students not to take campus threats lying down but to fight back with any "improvised weapon," from a backpack to a laptop computer.

    The program — which includes a video showing a gunman opening fire in a packed classroom — urges them to be ready to respond to a shooter by taking advantage of the inherent strength in numbers.

    It reflects a new response at colleges and universities where grisly memories of the campus shootings at Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University are still fresh.

    "Look at your environment through the lens of survival," said Domenick Brouillette, who administered the course at Metropolitan Community College, which serves more than 20,000 students. "Survivors prepare themselves both mentally and emotionally to do what it takes. It might involve life-threatening risk. You may do something you never thought you were capable of doing."

    Nearly 300 professors at Metropolitan Community College were shown the video as part of a training exercise before the first day of classes on this downtown campus. The training, produced by the Center for Personal Protection and Safety, a for-profit firm based in Spokane, Wash., is also available for the school's students.

    The training drills teachers and students in a "survival mindset," said Randy Spivey, a former U.S. Department of Defense hostage negotiator who is executive director of the center. The center's roster includes retired FBI agents and others with federal law enforcement experience.

    "There are two extremes. On the one hand is paranoia, and on the other is oblivion," he said. "We're just trying to get people to keep this on their radar."

    The training discourages cowering in a corner or huddling together in fear, Brouillette emphasized at the Kansas City session.

    Instead, Metropolitan Community College faculty members were taught to be aware of their surroundings and to think of common classroom objects — such as laptops and backpacks — as "improvised weapons."

    The program has been bought by nearly 500 colleges, which tailor the company's safety messages — laid out in instructional videos and other training guides — to craft localized violence prevention programs. Spivey expects that by year's end that number will have grown to about 1,000 schools.

    Schools may provide the training to students as well as staff, as at Metropolitan, or limit it to instructors or security personnel.

    Campus safety experts interviewed by The Associated Press said they are not aware of any similar survival training courses marketed specifically to college campuses.

    "It's a dark subject," Brouillette said. "But we can't say 'It's never going to happen again.' It's 'When is it going to happen?' And we have to be prepared to survive that."
    The sort of aggressive survival response cited by Brouillette troubles school violence researcher Loren Coleman, a retired University of Southern Maine professor.

    Showing students violent images of school shootings could trigger post-traumatic stress or other reactions that resident advisers, graduate assistants and similarly untrained workers would be unequipped to handle, Coleman said.

    And the techniques shown in instructional videos such as "Shots Fired" could provide inspiration for troubled students considering their own acts of violence, Coleman suggested.

    "You more or less are giving them a blueprint for how to avoid law enforcement," he said.

    At the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill, officials are looking for ways to incorporate the training as part of the school's "Alert Carolina" program. Campus police chief Jeff McCracken said the school may offer hands-on training to students and faculty, or simply post a link on the university Web site.

    Despite the relative rarity of deadly violence on campus, colleges can no longer assume that they are immune from such problems, McCracken said.

    "I do think it's important that we talk to our folks and give them some guidance on how to protect themselves and others," he said. "It's not something that 10 years ago we thought we'd be talking about. But unfortunately, it's something we need to do now."

    Todd Bowdish, a Metropolitan Community College life sciences professor who participated in the recent training session, agreed that today's classroom climate requires extreme caution.

    "It's a really basic thing," Bowdish said. "We have drills for fires and tornadoes. This is just another tool for the toolbox." :banghead:


    Just another tool for the toolbox would be a firearm, smart guy. Maybe this is a step in the right direction though. At least they acknowledge the fact that it can actually happen even though they ban firearms. Now we have to convince them of need for proper tools.
     
  2. rantingredneck

    rantingredneck Member

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    Two things:

    1) Improvised weapons work, BTDT..... Good for the schools for at least putting a training curriculum together.

    2) If the universities and state legislatures (in NC it's a state law) would realize that university students are adults and should be treated as such, improvised weapons wouldn't have to be relied upon as much.........
     
  3. WinchesterAA

    WinchesterAA Member

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    Interesting point, my friend..

    Proper tools.. No more redneck innovations when it comes to self defense. Let professionalism take over, prepare outright, and rightfully so.
     
  4. COMPNOR

    COMPNOR Member

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    Even if it was legal, carrying is still a personal choice (unless everybody wants a law making it mandatory to carry :rolleyes: )

    So to me it makes perfect sense. Yes it is another tool in the tool box. Just like a gun. Because even in the CHL/CCW community, I'm sure there are some who don't carry 24/7 for whatever reason. Just because you don't have a gun doesn't mean you can't do anything. It doesn't automatically make you ineffective or a victim.

    Dismissing it as useless because it doesn't involve a gun is just silly.
     
  5. myrockfight

    myrockfight Member

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    Of further note...does anyone now if the Center for Personal Protection and Safety is anti-gun? They are the ones who produced the video.

    Who said anything about dismissing common sense measures? Trust me. I would do the exact same thing and would do anything to prevent from being a "helpless" victim. I just graduated from college last summer. I often thought of the different ways, outlined in this video, to defeat a shooter. I pray that I would have the courage to do so in such an event. Giving it a good amount of thought and running through the scenarios in your mind certainly help.

    And when did someone say everyone was going to be forced to carry? :rolleyes:

    I was simply pointing out the fact that school administrators dismiss the most obvious tools available.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2008
  6. elrod

    elrod Member

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    Written for the sheep by the herdsman. How pathetic.
     
  7. rantingredneck

    rantingredneck Member

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    Very true........

    One of the issues with "gun free" zones though is that they present target rich environments for spree shooters. Making the choice available for those students who choose to carry would then change the calculus of target selection a bit.
     
  8. george29

    george29 Member

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    It smells of the regular liberal-poop that continues the Victim Disarmament Zone without coming up with a real solution, i.e either enough Armed Security Personnel or Armed Teachers. The first costs more money than they are willing to accept as viable, the second they won't accept because it is against their mindset. I did not even try suggesting allowing CHL because there is no way they will go for that. In essence, this is just spin and someone was able to write themselves a nifty government grant that sells an idea that's about as good as stocks in a mortgage bank.
     
  9. Oana

    Oana Member

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    I look at it this way: at least it shows a movement in the right direction. Can you imagine this sort of video being shown in colleges 10 years ago? Mindset first.

    I'm not sure I'd want to use a laptop as an improvised weapon, though. They're pretty unwieldy.
     
  10. green country shooter

    green country shooter Member

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    The decision makers are not the people who make or show these videos. The people who decide whether teachers and students can carry are the legislature or the presidents, not the people tasked with educating teachers and students about survival. Criticizing the people who make the videos is silly. It's not up to them whether to allow guns or not.
     
  11. ltetmhs

    ltetmhs Member

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    You can't have a knife and fork, but we would be happy to teach you how to eat a steak with this plastic spoon.

    Something tells me throwing laptops is a good way to be the next victim.
     
  12. Elza

    Elza Member

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    People had better be careful advocating such things. The politicians will start wanting laptop and backpack control followed by a ban on ‘assault calculators’.
     
  13. GingerGuy

    GingerGuy Member

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    Seems to me the University's Chancellors want them all drunk...you know alcohol and guns don't mix.
     
  14. akodo

    akodo Member

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    hey wait, how do these 'improvised weapons' that are found everywhere co-exist with the 'weapons free environment' policy?
     
  15. Guns and more

    Guns and more member

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    Fixed that for you.
    Unfortunately, studies have shown that groups don't fight back. A killer can line up victims and kill them one at a time. No one knows why. Strength in numbers, but it doesn't work. Universities should know that if I do. (I think they do, but are so anti-gun they would rather another mass killing take place than to allow CCW on campus).
     
  16. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    yeah, i was wondering how long it will be until they ban backpacks and laptops


    still, telling people to be aware of their surroundings and to find a way to solve a problem given whatever situation they're in, isn't all bad. of course, solving it before it turns into a problem would be better, but hey... baby steps
     
  17. protolith

    protolith Member

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    Yes Embrace your inner sheep. Yessss, and bleat really loud while you huddle with your group... and throw something at the gunman.

    Hmmmm throw something, fight back with a weapon they say?

    At least they are beginning to recognize the need for a self defense mentality.
    Its only a matter of time before the come all the way around and recognize the utility of a REAL weapon. The conclusion that campus CCW should be permitted will only follow.

    It's not a very big step from recognizing the need to improvise a weapon and realizing that actual weapons just work better.

    Even though I would like to know how to survive in the wilderness indefinitely, dropped naked and armed only with a steak knife, I'm not going to consider a simple knife as a reasonable backup plan for the unexpected. I'm going to take appropriate clothes, that can accommodate any weather that I might encounter, Some food (even if I expect to find something to eat where I'm headed), and certainly an appropriate means of self defense for the environment.

    If I'm in bear country I want something chambered for bear,
    If I'm in mountain lion country want something chambered for cougar.
    If I'm in psycho-******* country I want something chambered to defend from the same.
     
  18. goon

    goon Member

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    A laptop is a piss-poor substitute for a handgun.
     
  19. romma

    romma Member

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    Let he who is without common sense, cast out the first laptop... :uhoh:
     
  20. jonmerritt

    jonmerritt Member.

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    What they forgot to mention, was how many are going to stand and fight (be a target). And how many are going to duck and cover and run for the exit?? While being shot at by some lunatic? Oh wait, no guns on campus law, so there safe...
     
  21. siglite

    siglite Member

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    This is right up there with duck and cover drills for nuclear attacks.
     
  22. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    What a nation of wimps we're becoming! Next thing you know, we'll invite the English back.
     
  23. iheartboost

    iheartboost Member

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    looks like I'm off to the range with my Toshiba......
     
  24. sanglant

    sanglant Member

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    hmm barrel below the lcd panel trigger on the side........ :evil:
     
  25. Monkeyleg

    Monkeyleg Member

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    Um, has this guy ever gone to the movies?

    The "inspirations" have already been heavily published by the "if it bleeds, it leads" mainstream media.
     
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