Colleges: Don't use real weapons, throw your laptop at 'em

[Vern Humphrey]

Like pop cans, for example. (I wonder how many people will now seize on "pop cans" and call it ridiculous.)

A man who would choose a pop can as his weapon against an opponent with a gun is ridiculous.

We are not in the fighting stage here. We are in the planning stage, and if we plan to use laptops, pop cans, or similar ineffective weapons against a man with a gun, we are living in la la land.

 

[230RN]

^ No offense, but I think you missed mine and migoi's well-put point:

The value in this program is not in the idea that tossing a laptop will help you survive...the value is in presenting the concepts that you have a responsibility for your own protection, you have to be aware of your surroundings, and that you don't need an "authority's" permission to act during an emergency.You've got to start that thought process in the realm of the current knowledge base of the person you're trying to educate.

(migoi said it so well --much better than I did.)

Kinda reminds me of the "Army Method" of teaching;

"First,you tell 'em what you're going to tell 'em. Then you tell 'em what you're telling them. Then you tell them what you just told them."

So I guess you're going to have to see me post the migoi comment yet one more time later on.

(The pH of this post is 5.8 -- and the lower limit for acidity on THR seems to be about 5.0 or so. Hope I don't have to go there.)

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I think the point is this program is not about "presenting the concepts that you have a responsibility for your own protection." It's about CYA for the college administration. It's about giving them room to say they did something, when in reality they did nothing.

 

[230RN]

I'm sorry, I can't report on other peoples' motivations since I am not a mind reader. It's a good program in my opinion disunirregardless of the college administration's motivations.

 

[myrockfight]

(The pH of this post is 5.8 -- and the lower limit for acidity on THR seems to be about 5.0 or so. Hope I don't have to go there.)

LOL. Took me about ten seconds to get that funny. But it is funny!

 

[Ash]

Well, piping in, I have to agree that the concept of using what is at your disposal to defend yourself is something that should be taught. Watching the convenience store clerks scald baddies with hot coffee, or the Taiwanese jewelry clerks attack robbers with stools and curtain rods should be reminders to everyone that self-defense is far better than meek submission. Fight back. Fight back with what ever you have. If it means the other guy has a gun, then smash his skull in with a lap top. If you can bean him with a coke, then do it. If it means you are pulling his eye out with your fingers, then do it.

Sure, it would be better to be armed than not. But the Jews in Warsaw showed the entire world that you can indeed resist. The women in the liquor store who smash the robber with a fifth of whiskey show what true grit is. If we simply taught resistance to evil not only would we reduce crime (Criminals are not generally willing to wade into the fight. If they had that kind of fortitude, they would not likely be criminals who by their very nature prey on those they can dominate) but we would likely have the fortitude to fight evil in the world. Our society needs a good dose of not putting up with crap, regardless of the danger it might pose.

So, I for one, while I strongly disagree with disarmament and then weak attempts at alternatives, I strongly agree that our kids should be taught to resist and fight back, that our society needs to be taught to grab the mugger by the ears and bite his stinking nose off.

Ash

 

[4v50 Gary]

Remember the MP5K that fit into the briefcase? How about a firearm disguised like a notebook? It can have a laser sight and pop-up red dot sight and folding iron (with tritium) sights as back-up. The extra space can be kevlar for protection.

The military model will have a folding handle, sling swivels and can take a bayonet.

 

[myrockfight]

How about a firearm disguised like a notebook? It can have a laser sight and pop-up red dot sight and folding iron (with tritium) sights as back-up. The extra space can be kevlar for protection.

What company put out that subgun? that stores as a small box. They unveiled it at the last SHOT show, I think. It was pretty darn cool.

 

[george29]

What IS IT about a projectile-firing-weapon that so scares the liberals. Why is it that they don't even advocate carrying a taser? Their mindset is dangerous and it is not a change for the better, it is the same warped mindset with a new twist. It IS a CYA program. It IS a Duck & Cover program. If it were a positive change, these twisted individuals would search for a real solution. A) More armed guards. B) Armed teachers. C) Allowing for off duty LEO students to carry. D) Allowing for non lethal weapons such as the Taser to be carried by all. For pity;s sake, did they omit using pepper spray for a reason? BEAR SPRAY, what's wrong with advocating that? No no no no, there is no MINDSET change, that's just wishful thinking. It is plain and simple Liberal Manure fertilizing simple minds.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

What IS IT about a projectile-firing-weapon that so scares the liberals.

Peasants with guns might not want to give everything they own to the government.

 

[GEM]

Just to add some reality, it is not just liberal administrations that are anticarry. It is power structures.

Big old capitalist companies aren't high on weapons at the plant or office. They don't want exploited workers to think about the exploited.

You may recall GWB, Mitt Romney, Bob Dole - all fans to the AWB. Ronnie R - the champion of the right - was a fan of the Brady Bill. Jack B. T. - George the First.

Fighting back is a nice thing to put on the web page of a school. It is just a post incident liability defense.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Fighting back is a nice thing to put on the web page of a school. It is just a post incident liability defense.

Exactly right. Their attitude is best described as, "Who cares how many unarmed victims are killed -- as long as we don't get blamed for anything."

 

[doc2rn]

The college I attend actually stated the bean counters set the policy. They are gambling with our lives that the average gunman wont kill more than 12 people so they only need to keep $1.5 mil around to buy off families in case of an incident.
That is what my BU 250 teacher told me at the range.
Sad isnt it.

 

[myrockfight]

They are gambling with our lives that the average gunman wont kill more than 12 people so they only need to keep $1.5 mil around to buy off families in case of an incident.
That is what my BU 250 teacher told me at the range.
Sad isnt it.

That is sick, pathetic, and a the exact reason our court systems have punitive damage awards. So they plan on giving just over $100,000? LOL. That is a joke. The average income for people over their lifetime is around a million dollars. That is $30,000 (avg. US income) a year for 30 years. By average standards that is ridiculous. I wouldn't accept it as a victim's family and would definitely sue. Especially if they pre-planned this and ran the numbers to that conclusion.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

They're probably well covered by insurance. If you lost a loved one in such a case, you'd have to weigh a payout now against a possible payout many years in the future -- a hundred thousand dollars now could be worth more than a million many years down the road.

And they know that.

 

[myrockfight]

They're probably well covered by insurance. If you lost a loved one in such a case, you'd have to weigh a payout now against a possible payout many years in the future -- a hundred thousand dollars now could be worth more than a million many years down the road.

And they know that.

True. Very true. I'm a finance major. I should have thought of that! From a finance standpoint, I do understand their whole planning process. However, I still find it detestable. Maybe it is just because they could just let people carry and possibly prevent these things, or greatly curtail them anyway.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

That's why ultimately we need criminal charges -- the university, acting under color of authority, violated the victims' civil rights, and they died as a result.

 

[GEM]

I attended a VT aftermath seminar. One part of the planning is now for the events, counseling and bonding that will be needed.

Of course, counseling is needed for victims and relatives. No argument. However, the events and rallies are interesting. They are said to pull the community together and not let them be defined by the shooting.

However, there are other views. Some scholars see them as a revision to more primitive tribalism. After a small group tribal conflict, the tribe remarks its terrority. Goes to the boundaries of their area and makes an agressive display. So shouting the school cry is exactly that. Unfortunately, this defensive display has no reality as to mounting a real defense.

Second, it is an attempt to bond the victims and victim relatives to the group to diminish their motivation to sue, prosecute or otherwise take action against the school. How could you violate the sense of commuity and spirit? By offering a group settlement, you have to distance yourself from the small group of bonded victims if you don't take it.

Very well thought out human relationship manipulation strategy.

Remember, the school wants to survive as a corporate entity - the individual parts are not central to that.

 

[myrockfight]

Second, it is an attempt to bond the victims and victim relatives to the group to diminish their motivation to sue, prosecute or otherwise take action against the school. How could you violate the sense of commuity and spirit? By offering a group settlement, you have to distance yourself from the small group of bonded victims if you don't take it.

Very well thought out human relationship manipulation strategy.

Remember, the school wants to survive as a corporate entity - the individual parts are not central to that.

GEM, thanks for the social analysis. It is very interesting to see how that is used to manipulate the victim's families.

After attending college and being actively involved with many of the faculty, I realized that universities and colleges were acting more like corporations. A very poorly run corporation, but a corporation none-the-less. I don't think they could get anything done inside of a year that needed to be done.