Color case and blueing

[BBBBill]

Got a project with some wild hair ideas. Old double front stuffer that is in pieces. Want to make a (very) nice wall hanger. I'd like to have the reciever color cased and the barrels blued. Trouble is, the barrels have to be soldered to the reciever as an assembly. Now I know you can't color case after soldering for a number of reasons, not least of which is the temp required to color being much higher than the solder flow temp. And of course the effect on the thin barrels and on the blueing.
So, can the reciever be color cased, the barrels blued, then the whole thing soft soldered together without hurting the blue. Pretty sure it won't hurt the color case at those low temps, but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Old Fuff]

The barrels can be blued using a process that doesn't involve high heat, such as "rust bluing." But if this in an original old timer you might what to have the barrels browned, which is a similar low-heat process. The frame can be color case hardened, but it would have to be fully stripped.

The problem with all this is that the restoration work would be expensive, and quite likely cost more then the gun's worth. But if you got the money it can be done.

 

[BBBBill]

Thanks, Fuff. Cost is not really a factor. I'm doing the work (other than the possible case color). It is for a family member. The rust blue/brown is what I plan to do. I'm set up for that. The main concern is the effect of the heat from the soft solder job to join the barrels and reciever after finish is applied. I guess I could use JB Weld since it's a wall hanger. That's a joke, guys.

 

[Jim K]

Why would you do the soldering after the finish? Solder the barrels first, keeping solder overflow to a minimum, then scrape off any excess solder and finish the gun with a process (e.g., cold blue or boiling for rust blue) that won't hurt the solder. As to case hardening, I suggest a "faux" case hardening; you polish the part to be hardened, then use a mini torch or a propane torch to heat the part just enough to color it, which is not enough to melt the solder or even remove the original hardness. Then wax the part or use a polyurethane spray.

You can "paint" with the torch, making stripes, or a mottled look as you want. Practice on a piece of scrap iron or steel first. Since the gun is not going to be fired, this should work fine.

Jim

 

[rcmodel]

Just so I got this picture in my mind straightened out?

You have a double-barrel, muzzle loading shotgun?

And it has a "receiver" separate from the barrels?

What kind of dang gun is it anyway?

rcmodel

 

[BBBBill]

Yep! Double barreled muzzle loader. It is ancient. Belonged to the great, great, great grandfather of a favorite in-law. He lived from the early 1830s till about 1915. Not sure when/where he aquired it. The engraving is too faint for me to make out the manufacturer. I'm goint to try to clean it up enough to be able to read that. The reciever and barrels were originally assembled as a unit via solder. Currently, the barrels have separated and were the victims of a poor attempt to resolder. The whole thing is falling apart. Just failed joints and no finish. Fortunately, there seems to be little to no pitting. The only bad rust is on the piece that fits under the barrels (shaped to act as a reinforcement?). Stock is dark from oil, but seems to be coming clean with use of whiting. I think it will show some good figure.

 

[rcmodel]

I'm still not getting a clear picture in my mind.

All of the double-barrel muzzle loading shotguns I have seen had a separate barrel / breach-plug assembly, with a stock mounted tang that the barrel assembly hooked into. The front end was retained with a barrel wedge through the forearm.

The locks were mounted on the side-plates.

I just don't recall ever seeing one with a receiver.

rcmodel

 

[dfariswheel]

You can soft solder a blued and color cased gun, BUT..... you have to be very careful to keep the flux off the bluing and case colors.
Solder flux will strip both, plus be sure to use as low a temp solder as you can.

As long as the temps are low, and the flux isn't allowed to bubble and run onto the finished surfaces, it can be done.

As above, a possibly better option is a good epoxy.
Epoxy can be very strong if the parts are well degreased, slightly roughened to improve adhesion, and if you can use holes or undercut areas to allow the epoxy to form "locks" in the parts.

 

[44-henry]

I do a lot of bone and charcoal color case hardening and I routinely draw back the parts in the oven at 400 degrees following the quench. This does not hurt the colors (in fact it enhances them) and also reduces the possibilty of breakage by softening the surfaces a little bit (good insurance if you are not absolutely sure of the alloy). As long as your solder melts around this temp range you should be fine, I too am curious about the gun you mention. Photos would help a lot.