Colt 1911-A1 Value?

[knifeman32]

Hi guys, I was speaking with my neighbor and he said that he has ran across a colt 1911-a1 that is for sale. We spoke for a bit about it in passing a few days ago. Tonight, we actually talked about it. He doesn't know a whole lot about the gun but he is considering buying it. He's an old timer but a great guy. He sent me a few photos via email and I told him that I would ask everyone's opinion on the value. Here are the photos. The serial number is 2348026 I believe. Apparently the serial numbers match on the frame and the slide. He also told me that the barrel had the serial number engraved on it (I have no idea if that is normal or not). It looks to me like it may have been re-blued at some point but I really don't know. I haven't seen it in person. I am also not sure if the grips are original. I am not really sure how to date these either. Nonetheless, here are the photos. Feel free to enlighten me.

 

[rondog]

Hard to tell much from the photos, but it's no war trophy. It "might" be a WWII vintage frame, need more detailed photos. But it's had target sights added, the ejection port has been modified, or it's just a later model slide to begin with. Grips look like repros. No arched mainspring housing with lanyard loop either.

The only place the slides were serial numbered to match the frame # is under the firing pin retainer plate (or whatever it's called). You can't see the s/n unless you remove that plate first.

Might be a nice shooting pistol and have a decent value, but don't let him pay the price of a genuine WWII M1911A1, because it ain't one. See if the frame s/n starts with a "C", that's a civilian or commercial s/n. Military would start with No., with the little "o" up high and underlined.

 

[knifeman32]

I think the owner is asking $1100. Would that be a stretch in terms of pricing? I just confirmed with my neighbor that the seller says it is marked US property. Does that make any difference? I wish I had more photos to post for you guys to see but this is all I have at the moment.

 

[scythefwd]

since its not all original, I'd pass at that price. You can get a gov model 1911, from colt, for less than that new.

 

[PabloJ]

One can get Turkish, Chinese, or Phillipino 'GI' model for around $400. You need to move on.

 

[bannockburn]

knifeman32

The gun actually resembles something the original Springfield Armory made for the U.S. Army for pistol competition back in the mid 1950s. And in 1960 the Air Force also began customizing some National Match pistols for their own competition team.

The serial number of the gun itself puts it as being made by Colt in 1945. The slide however has the rollmark Colt used on Post W.W. II manufactured guns. But the interesting part is that the modifications done to this gun are some of the same ones done by Springfield Armory and by the Air Force armorers: Micro rear sights and large post front sights, and stippled forestraps and backstraps. Typically they would have fitted National Match barrels and bushings, as there were well specified requirements for accuracy with these pistols.

One difference between the two services pistols is that the Army models were usually parkerized while the Air Force models had a matte blue finish. Both were normally equipped with checkered walnut grips.

 

[knifeman32]

Bannockburn, I was actually told something similar on another forum. Would this be a more common colt in terms of age and value? Or is this something that is actually more sought after. I have seen colts in similar condition sale for varying prices.


Pablo: I'm not actually the one looking for an older colt. It is my neighbor. Turkish, Chinese, or Phillipino are not even words in his vocabulary. He is an old GI himself. He prefers colt over any other manufacturer. He likes vintage, not foreign.

 

[rklessdriver]

From what I can see. Can't tell definate about the frame but that is a post war "Hard Slide" and Micro sights.... The discoloration on certain parts of the barrel hood tells me it's been welded up to fit tighter. IMO it's a definite match gun of some sort.

I can think of a few ways this could play out....

Best case, the seller can prove it's a SA or other type of US military NM gun..... YES - it's worth $1100. It all depends on whether you can authenticate it as a US military NM pistol.

Second best.... it's a match gun that someone (civilian) had built.... However the value is all gonna be in WHO built it and the documentation of such..... A match gun built by well know old school smith like Clark, Swenson, Capone (Kings), Crawford, Brown, Heinie, ect would be a fair sell at $1100.

Not so good of a case.... Let's say neither of those 2 things can be provided.... However - IF it's built right - it's still valuable as a shooter, regardless of it's non existent history but $1100 is steep IMO. Keep in mind a random match 1911A1 built out of a surplus 1945 COLT just isn't really valuable without any kind of builder or shooter provenance. In this case you just have to know what quality work looks like and pay what you think it's worth.... if you don't know the difference then my suggestion is don't risk it.

Worst case... it's a cobbled together, shot out POS with no provenance.... I don't think I need to explain this one any further.

Will

 

[Jim Watson]

It does not look like a real USGI National Match as prepared at Springfield or Rock Island.
They used a different front sight, a long trigger, and a machine checkered frontstrap. They are also well marked as to what they are.

It might conceivably be an Air Force Premium Grade but boy, every little thing would have to be perfectly right, all parts and markings in place for it to be authentic.

Perhaps it was accurized by a unit armorer using NM parts and techniques.
Perhaps it was accurized by a nationally known gunsmith.
Perhaps it was accurized by a civilian gunsmith of some skill.
Perhaps it was accurized by a civilian gunsmith of ordinary ability.
Perhaps it was accurized by Bubba in his basement after reading a magazine article.

So I pretty much agree with Will. You (he) needs more information. Perhaps it could be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith or bullseye shooter.

It is often said that there is no such thing as a stupid question but "What did I just buy?" comes very close.

 

[One_Jackal]

It's not like pawn stars where odd ball guns are always a prototype. Usually if it's an oddball gun it's not as desirable.

 

[knifeman32]

I don't believe it's any sort of prototype nor did I ever. I was just under the assumption that it could have been GI issue which I believe it what he is looking for. Thanks for the help guys. After reading everything that you have said, I think I will advise him to pass.