colt 1911 question

[patriot9879]

A friend of mine acquired a pretty beat up colt 1911 and would like to know the aproximate mfg date and an idea of the value. Unfortunately the serial number and model info was removed from the right side of the slide. What we know is that it is the GI pattern, nickle plated, and the info on the left of the slide references the patent of 1913. The damage is as follows: barrel is worn and extremely fouled, nickle plating shows pitting, right side of the slide has been ground to remove info, wood grips have been burned slightly, front and rear sights are bent, inside of the gun shows heavy powder residue. Any comments would be appreciated.

 

[rondog]

If the serial number's been ground off, that gun is illegal as hell and is a felony charge waiting to happen!!!! He should have NEVER touched it! I hope he inherited it and didn't pay good money for it. Value is ZERO, it needs to disappear ASAP. Perhaps some of the parts can be salvaged, but the frame and slide are NFG.

 

[Walkalong]

It's worth jailtime is all.

 

[texas bulldog]

did he "acquire" it from a drug dealer?





i smell troll here, fellas...

 

[paul45]

The ATF needs to be notified.

 

[mljdeckard]

Yep. No good can come of this.

 

[average_shooter]

Unfortunately the serial number and model info was removed from the right side of the slide.

Not sure what you guys are smoking, but serial numbers on slides don't mean squat to the ATF. It's the serial numbers on the frame that matter, and they might be at least partly covered up by the grips if the thing is that beat up.

OP, could you post a pic or two for us? Or do you really mean the info on the frame was removed?

 

[rondog]

It's certainly not uncommon that a GI returning from WWII brought home a 1911, and then ground off the serial number and the United States Property rollmark, a lot of guys did that because they were afraid of "repercussions" because of the "United States Property" onus. And those guns do occaisionally turn up. Wasn't uncommon for guys to have them plated too. Those pistols weren't "special" back then, they were cheap and common.

After WWII, the serial numbers on guns wasn't a big thing, but now that we have the ATF on our backs, it's the fact that the s/n has been REMOVED that tends to get them all excited. It could have USP stamped all over it, and nobody would care. But remove the serial number, and things will get deep and stinky quickly.

 

[eatont9999]

What is the purpose of having a serial number on a gun, especially if it is not registered? I don't get it. Who cares if the gun is numbered, other than the ATF. I can't understand their logic.

 

[rcmodel]

Have somebody steal your gun and you will better understand.
When you report it stolen, the serial number is the only thing in the world that can be used to I.D. it from 50 zillion others just like it.

Have a factory recall for a known safety problem, and you will better understand.
If your serial number is included, you need to have it fixed.
The serial number is the only thing in the world that can be used to I.D. it from 50 zillion others just like it.

Try to insure your gun without a serial number and you will better understand.
The serial number is the only thing in the world that can be used to I.D. it from 50 zillion others just like it.

Ask an expert on THR when your gun was made and all the details about it and you will better understand.
The serial number is the only thing in the world that can be used to I'D. it from 50 zillion others just like it.

BTW: A Colt 1911 never had the serial number on the slide.
It was always on the right side of the frame just below the slide and above the right grip.
If that has been ground off, you have an ATF violation.

rc

 

[CWL]

What is the purpose of having a serial number on a gun, especially if it is not registered? I don't get it. Who cares if the gun is numbered, other than the ATF. I can't understand their logic.

Well, you can't tell unless you have a serial number to look-up, can you?

 

[patriot9879]

OP RE: several questions

RE: being a troll...I am not one. I do not post on here often because 1.) I do not have the time, and 2.) I am not a gun expert so I do not often feel my opinions are any more useful than the others posted here.

RE: pics...I cannot post pics.

RE: Serial number...we looked everywhere but under the grip panels, and do not see anything that resembles a serial number. I expected the number to be on the frame, but when I saw clear signs of grinding on the slide I assumed that's where it had been. I am not up on my 1911 knowledge.

RE: the removal of information...it looks like someone took the edge of a grinding wheel to the slide where the model info is located. It is deep and about 1/8" wide. Why would someone do this simply to remove the model info? There are no signs of grinding or modification on the frame anywhere in the vicinity of the grips. Maybe the number it under the grip. Or maybe the nickel filled it in?

RE: nickel plating...it was done after the grinding and after the gun had rusted through the original finish. There were a few spots where the nickel had flaked off, and the finish underneath looked like phosphate or parker. So...they just nickel coated a rusted gun without cleaning it?

 

[MAURICE]

Go out into your garage and fire up the band saw. Tiny pieces. Lake.
That is all.

 

[wditto]

serial number was on the FRAME and there could have been a dozen reasons why the slide was ground, none of which are illegal

 

[rondog]

Patriot, I live in the Denver area, and I'd be happy to take a look at it and shoot some photos, if you wish. I don't have any original old Colt 1911's, but I DO have a Colt 01911 WWI reproduction M1911, and a Colt WWII M1911A1 reproduction. Both are outstanding pistols and accurate enough to make a good comparison to your friend's pistol.

 

[MikeSwickerath]

1911 & and some 1911a1 DO have serial # on slide - under the firing pin stop. I think the practice was dropped sometime during WW II.

 

[Oro]

RE: the removal of information...it looks like someone took the edge of a grinding wheel to the slide where the model info is located. It is deep and about 1/8" wide. Why would someone do this simply to remove the model info?

Look at rondog's photo - that is where it says "Model of 1911 US Army" - whoever was trying to hide the fact it was "liberated" from military service prematurely was removing all military markings. It is common to find these ground down on both the frame and slide just as you described.

It's a shame, as many of them are otherwise fine guns worth cleaning up and shooting. And had the s/n not been ground off, perfectly legal to own nowadays. But the risk of jail time or at least legal problems IS VERY REAL. Maurice's advice is really the most practical. Demill the frame, deep six it, and keep the parts. "S/N recovery" techniques used by forensic examiners are destructive (it involves etching away the metal with powerful acids) and not something you can do to find the original s/n and then re-apply it and make everything legal.

The BATF guidelines on this are clear - the penalty is for posession of a firearm with an obliterated or altered s/n. There is no "intent" involved. As an honest Joe you might be able to plea this down to a few month's probation or something, but along the way run up $5 to $10k in legal bills and also loose your firearms rights permanently.