We thought we were purchasing an antique Colt Navy, square trigger revolver (sn 1485) at an auction several years ago. Then we started questioning it. We even sent it back to Colt to see if they would verify it, but all they said, when they returned it was that their SN records didn't go back that far. The Serial number doesn't seem to be a continuation of Colts, as some commemoratives were... I am starting to think it is either a 2nd Gen, or a Signature Series Colt. All the markings are Colt markings. How can you tell a 2nd Gen. model from a Signature model? Regards, Joanne
Colt: 2nd Gen, Signature Series, or Real?
- Thread starter Joanne
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junkman_01
member
Joanne,
A Signature model has the signature of Samuel Colt on the back strap of the grip. All the second and third generation guns used Uberti parts and the screws are metric.
Here is a history of the Colt reproductions....
https://www.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/POWDER/MBPHistoryOfColtBlack.pdf
A Signature model has the signature of Samuel Colt on the back strap of the grip. All the second and third generation guns used Uberti parts and the screws are metric.
Here is a history of the Colt reproductions....
https://www.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/POWDER/MBPHistoryOfColtBlack.pdf
Cult of 1858
Member
can you post of pic? What does the top of the barrel read? Is the a "colts patent" on the side of the frame?
In cases like these, pictures speak real loud.
In cases like these, pictures speak real loud.
Fingers McGee
Member
Second Gen '51 Navies started at SN 4201 (where the second model Navies ended). Second Gen SNs ended at around 29000 which is where the Sig Series SNs began. With a serial number of 1485, It's either an original or a replica made by someone else.
Colt real or 2nd Gen/Signature
The barrel has "Address Saml Colt New-York City". "Colts Patent" is below the cylinder. On the cylinder is "Colts Patent no...but the SN (1485) is in the place of the Patent number. Under that is "engraved by W. L. Ormsby New York". The SN's are all the same, including on the wedge. There is no signature on the strap. The SN on the strap seems to have one of the inspectors marks embedded in it. What do I have???? Any help would be greatly appreciated. When Colt sent it back to us without any comment, and I did ask them if it was vintage or not, it just frustrated me to no end. I hope you can access the photobucket site.. I forgot to ask my husband if the parts were "metric" so that answer will have to wait until later today. Regards, Joanne
http://s294.photobucket.com/albums/mm82/JCinPA/
The barrel has "Address Saml Colt New-York City". "Colts Patent" is below the cylinder. On the cylinder is "Colts Patent no...but the SN (1485) is in the place of the Patent number. Under that is "engraved by W. L. Ormsby New York". The SN's are all the same, including on the wedge. There is no signature on the strap. The SN on the strap seems to have one of the inspectors marks embedded in it. What do I have???? Any help would be greatly appreciated. When Colt sent it back to us without any comment, and I did ask them if it was vintage or not, it just frustrated me to no end. I hope you can access the photobucket site.. I forgot to ask my husband if the parts were "metric" so that answer will have to wait until later today. Regards, Joanne
http://s294.photobucket.com/albums/mm82/JCinPA/
whosyrdaddy
Member
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If you don't mind my asking, what is it that first made you question it's authenticity?
junkman_01
member
That is the way the originals were marked. This is good.
Berkley
Member
I took the liberty of posting your photos here so others can see and comment without having to follow a link.
The pics appear to me to show an original Colt Model 1851 Navy revolver. The serial number is in the correct range for a Second Model Squareback with the screw above the wedge. Colt's response simply indicated that many of their records were destroyed in the factory fire of 1864; your serial number puts its manufacture in 1851.
The pics appear to me to show an original Colt Model 1851 Navy revolver. The serial number is in the correct range for a Second Model Squareback with the screw above the wedge. Colt's response simply indicated that many of their records were destroyed in the factory fire of 1864; your serial number puts its manufacture in 1851.
The reason we questioned its authenticity was because a dealer who handles Antique rifles, etc., suggested it was not vintage. That was why we sent it to Colt. They didn't comment on whether it was an Antique, original Colt, but simply said their records didn't go back that far.
That left a permanent question mark on the pistol. Junk_man 01 gave me a link which seems very complete as far as 2nd Generation and Signature guns are concerned but I haven't had a chance to thoroughly read it. If it is authentic, then I would be very happy. I must say, I am really surprised with how many responses I have received. I am glad I found this site. Joanne
That left a permanent question mark on the pistol. Junk_man 01 gave me a link which seems very complete as far as 2nd Generation and Signature guns are concerned but I haven't had a chance to thoroughly read it. If it is authentic, then I would be very happy. I must say, I am really surprised with how many responses I have received. I am glad I found this site. Joanne
rdstrain49
Member
Fingers McGee
Member
What Berkley & Mykeal said +1
BE Wild Willy
Member
A place to have it authenticated
I'm also a member on the ColtForum http://www.coltforum.com/forums/colt-revolvers/ , there many experts that frequent there. There are certain individuals that do authentication letters for certain guns, I believe it might be pricey, but well worth it to establish a proper value. Sure looks nice to me for an original 1851 from that year.
I'm also a member on the ColtForum http://www.coltforum.com/forums/colt-revolvers/ , there many experts that frequent there. There are certain individuals that do authentication letters for certain guns, I believe it might be pricey, but well worth it to establish a proper value. Sure looks nice to me for an original 1851 from that year.
arcticap
Member
This reputable Virginia antique firearms dealer is also an appraiser. He has an extensive list of credentials toward the bottom of his home page which includes the Pennsylvania Antique Gun Collectors Association.
http://www.davidcondon.com/
Perhaps he's located close enough to you to be able to deal with him directly. Or he may be able to refer you to an aquaintaince in the Pennsylvania Antique Gun Association, or you can contact the Pennsylvania Antique Gun Collectors Association on your own.
David Condon has seen multitudes of authentic Colts of every type and would be able to at least offer an opinion as to its authenticity and value in the event that you were to have any interest in selling it through him on a consignment basis, or simply desire to have it professionally appraised.
Pennsylvania Antique Gun Collectors Association website:
http://www.pagca.com/
http://www.davidcondon.com/
Perhaps he's located close enough to you to be able to deal with him directly. Or he may be able to refer you to an aquaintaince in the Pennsylvania Antique Gun Association, or you can contact the Pennsylvania Antique Gun Collectors Association on your own.
David Condon has seen multitudes of authentic Colts of every type and would be able to at least offer an opinion as to its authenticity and value in the event that you were to have any interest in selling it through him on a consignment basis, or simply desire to have it professionally appraised.
Pennsylvania Antique Gun Collectors Association website:
http://www.pagca.com/
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There are 'local dealers' and there are professional dealers and appraisers. This gun is worth seeking out the latter and getting it done right. And that can only be done in person, with the appraiser handling the gun - pictures on the internet aren't good enough. The above advice is good stuff.
Berkley
Member
I agree wholeheartedly with mykeal, Fingers and arcticap on the necessity of a personal inspection/ authentication by a competent, disinterested expert. While I had no problem giving my internet forum opinion (worth somewhat less than you paid for it) based on poor quality web pics, I certainly wouldn't risk one cent of my own money on any conclusion based on such evidence. There are qualified experts who will provide a written evaluation & appraisal for a reasonable fee commensurate with the value of their experience and knowledge. The oral opinion of a gun dealer (who may have an ulterior motive to buy an item cheaply) is no more reliable than internet pics and opinions.
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