Colt "Lightweight Commander" and the .38 Super...

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David4516

David4516

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Does anyone here have any experience with the Colt 1911 "Lightweight Commander"? I'm specifically interested in the .38 super version...

It seems like an interesting gun and an interesting cartridge; I'm considering getting one for plinking and for concealed carry. My current carry gun is a 9x18 Makarov, and if I'm looking at the numbers correctly the .38 super would have about twice the energy as the 9x18...

Any thoughts on either the cartridge or the pistol?

Thanks in advance...
 
By definition, a Colt Commander is the lightweight alloy-frame version.

The Combat Commander is the steel frame version.

My old friend has an early Commander in .38 Super and thinks very highly of it.

At one time, Colt chambered the .38 Super barrels to headspace on the semi-rimmed case. Accuracy could be a big problem with that method.

I think the lesson has been learned and they are chambered properly to headspace on the case mouth now.

In todays real world, factory ammo situation, the .38 Super often won't match some of the +P 9mm loads.

But, in the 1911 platform, the longer .38 Super cartridge gives you a much better chance of total reliablity. The 9mm in a 1911 is too short, and trick mags and such are necessary to get them to feed right.
That is offset by the much higher cost of .38 Super ammo.

Still, if I wanted a .36 caliber 1911, it would be a .38 Super and not a 9mm.

rc
 
Thanks for the info so far.

If I decide to buy one, it will be new, not used. Hopefully it will headspace correctly.

Also, ammo cost is not an issue for me, I plan to reload anyway. I've had good results loading for the 9x18 and I have a feeling that the .38 super components will be easier to come by. It does use the standard 9mm bullets, right? The .355 diameter?

Thanks again.
 
I have a 60 year old Star that I have fed a steady diet of .38 super for the past 16 years.
I love the caliber, its the only non .4X caliber in a pistol that I care for.
I would suggest the .38 super to anyone who reloads.


Jim
 
Never shot an alloy 1911, but I like the Super a whole lot. Factory ammo for S.D. is pretty much the Cor Bon load (550 f.p.e.) or the Win Silvertip (roughly equal to 9mm loads).

Where the Super shines is at the reloading bench. It's got a perfectly straight case and a big rim. You can easily get 9mm+P levels of power with standard pressure Super loads, or go higher without riding the edge of safety.

Take a look at the factory ammo comparisons at this link :http://38super.net/

.355" or .356" bullets can be used in any Super. I like the win. .356" 130 grain flat points. Some people have loaded .357 jacketed and .358" lead bullets in their Supers, but you should slug your bore first.
 
There are a lot of 1911 shooters who swear by the caliber. Less recoil but much higher velocities than .45 acp. I have heard a story that goes that Colt brought out the caliber at the request of the then newly formed FBI (The Untouchables!) because the agency wanted a pistol that could punch through the bullet proof glass used in the 1930's by the likes of Al Capone and assorted other gangsters.


One of the good things about Colts in .38 Super is the ability to fit another barrel in 9mm luger for cheap ammo practicing.

.38 Super has experienced a rebirth in competitive shooting in the last few years, but someone else will have to say why.

(I have Commanders, both a Combat Commander and a 1951 Commander with alloy frame, in 9mm and have never experienced any feeding issues with either gun, FWIW)
 
I have two 1911's in .38 Super. Awesome caliber. Wish I had discovered it sooner.

One is A Springfield Custom with a comp. It is an old "outdated" competition gun that is still a great gun, even if it is not "cutting edge" in the handgun competition area.

One is a stock Colt Series 80 enhanced. It is a great gun. You can always get a barrel in 9MM for it to switch out calibers.

If you reload the .38 is extremely versatile and fun to shoot. 9MM will always be cheaper of course, just because brass is laying everywhere.
 
For a number of years I've had a Commander in .38 Super and it's one of my favorite guns. The particular gun left the factory in about 1951 IIRC. About 10 years ago I put a Bar-Sto barrel in it which improved accuracy quite a bit. Since the late 80s Colt has properly headspaced all their .38 Super barrels.

clw3.jpg

Below at about 14-15 yards from a Weaver stance with the ammo shown.

CLW382.jpg

Most of the major manufacturers offer some loads for the .38 Super. Most though are downloaded to about what the 9mm can do. Cor-Bons offerings are an exception to this. Handloaded the Super can do a good bit more than the 9mm. In particular firing a heavier bullet faster. Myself and a friend worked up some hard cast lead SWC loads with 147 gr. bullets at 1375 fps. from a 5" barrel.

A 9mm barrel can also be fitted to it for cheaper plinking, in which case adjustable sights are a necessity.

If you poke around here you can get an idea of some of the commercial ammo available. Much of it goes for about what decent 9mm goes for.

http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Bro...3&categoryId=7512&categoryString=653***691***

The Super is a very good round IMHO.

tipoc
 
holy cow tipoc, that is one of the most beautiful 1911s ive ever seen.

absolutely stunning.

i had a early 80s government model with a similar "black mirror" finish.

i miss it terribly.

it was stolen from me in miami fla. and i could never find another i liked as much so after jumping from newer colt to newer colt, i finally settled on a kimber.

but they dont make one as pretty as that one you have there.
 
I just happen to have had my hands on a colt combat commander lw. Maybe the slide was frankensteined but it was what it was. CLW serial and all. In 38 super too. I wanted it so bad. It was in my store though so I sold it to a friend so I could shoot it.
 
.38 Super has experienced a rebirth in competitive shooting in the last few years, but someone else will have to say why.
Click to expand...

Because, just like you said, it has less recoil and the higher velocity helps it make "major" as a caliber with the lighter bullets. An edge in competitive shooting.
 
David4516

As some have already mentioned, one of the benefits of the Super .38 on the M1911 platform is that you can easily convert it to 9mm. with a new barrel, magazine, and perhaps a new recoil spring. Makes for less expensive practice time, and gives you that much more versatility. The reason the Super .38 caught on in competition was because the case allowed you to push the power levels up to where you could reach Major in points scoring, along with higher magazine capacity (fewer reloads during stages). Unfortunately the regular partially unsupported M1911 barrel design caused numerous case blowouts, so that eventually a different fully supported ramped barrel, with a matching cutout in the frame, had to be used. But if you're not pushing the envelope in terms of higher velocities, you'll do just fine with the regular Colt barrel.
 
Another quick question: do 1911s in .38 super use the same frame as the .45ACP pistols, or is it a smaller frame? A smaller gun would be nice for carry...
 
Same frame, different ejector & magazine.

For all practical purposes, the .38 Super cartridge is the same length as the .45 ACP round.

That's why it works so well in a 1911.
It was designed for it!

rc
 
My Father-in-law has BOTH a .38 super and .45 in 1960's vintage lightweight combat commanders. I have shot both and they are both wonderful pistols. I dont think you can go wrong with either one!
 
I figured they'd be the same size. If it had been smaller, I'd assume it would be "thinner", not "shorter"...

Another question about .38 super: since it uses 9mm diameter bullets, I assume that they're designed for 9x19 velocity? How do they hold up at .38 super velocity? Do any manufacturers make a bullet intended just for the super?
 
Sierra makes bullets specifically for the Super. Hornady also uses bullets specifically for the Super in their DPX load if I remember right. There are a few others as well. You'd have to check the sites or catalogs of a few to be sure.

It's a good question on hollowpoint ammo. I haven't heard of any problems which doesn't mean that there have not been some. You might try poking around here...http://www.38super.net/
to see if any problems have arisen.

With the commercial use of 9mm jhp ammo in the Super no problems have come up largely because the velocities Winchester (to cite one example) loads them to are in the 9mms window for expanding.

You can read a bit more here on this topic...
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Corbon 38 Super Ammo Tests.htm

tipoc
 
My daily buddy.


Wooops! Way too fuzzy. Anyway Commander LW 45acp. Tricked out by a guy with name of Ben Ammonette. Past Olypic Shooter. I'll try again.
 

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How do they hold up at .38 super velocity?
Click to expand...
At sane loading pressures, there isn't enough difference between the two calibers to make any difference whatsoever.

The Super can push bullets maybe 100+ FPS faster because of the added case capacity for slower powders.

But that is about the amount a ballistically inefficient pistol bullet slows down in the first 25 -35 yards anyway.

If you chrono +P 9mm & .38 Super factory loads, there isn't any difference between the two to speak of.

The true beauty of the .38 Super is that it fits the 1911 platform.
The 9mm doesn't.

rcmodel
 
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