Colt NRM xs. Series 70

[natedog]

How does the (blue) Colt NRM compare to the (blue) Series 70 reissue? How does the price compare? Which would you reccomend to a 1911 newbie? If I got either, I'd probably add Colt gold medallion wood grips, that'd be pretty cool .

 

[Trebor]

I can't say for sure, because I don't have either one yet. I will say though that I'm having a hard time justifying spending the extra cash on the S70 over the NRM model. I prefer guns without extra bits, like mag disconnects and FPS, but I don't know FPS on the Colt would bother me enough to spend the moeny to buy the S70.

 

[Josey]

I like the Series 80 FPS. I CCW mine. Every little safety helps. I bought a 1991A1. I enjoy it and it is accurate to 25 yards. I ring more steel than I pin down at 50 too. I am happy with mine. I can't see any reason to justify the Series 70 price. A friend asked me why pay more for fewer parts and give up a safety? I don't have any answer.

 

[rbernie]

Right now, it's almost a moot point - there's nothing in the pipeline. I've been trying to get a NRM 1991 Commander for a bit now, and nobody seems to have any left in the warehouse.

 

[dandean316]

I can't see any reason to justify the Series 70 price. A friend asked me why pay more for fewer parts and give up a safety? I don't have any answer.

Gunsmiths say it's easier to do, and a better trigger job can be done on a series 70. And how many safeties are needed? Grip safety and slide safety are plenty, besides, Series 80 safeties can fail - well not so much on the Colt's as the Kimbers.

It's just another thing to go wrong. I'd rather have LESS safeties (read: things to go wrong) on my carry gun. But I carry a Detonics sometimes which has exactly ONE (slide) safety.

 

[Tamara]

Y'know, I'll bet the little shim kit from Brownell's (you know, to cover the hole where the missing Series 80 bits were) is priced less than the price difference between the two guns. (It must be; I think my gunsmith just gave me the last two I needed. )

 

[1911Tuner]

Shimmed

Tamara said:

Y'know, I'll bet the little shim kit from Brownell's (you know, to cover the hole where the missing Series 80 bits were) is priced less than the price difference between the two guns.

Yep...The shim is about 4 bucks from Brownells. Neat.

For what it's worth...the firing pin safety on the Series 80 Colts and Series 2 Kimbers is there to insure no bang if the pistol is dropped on the muzzle.
It makes the gun more litigation-proof, but adds little to the relative
safety of Condition One carry. It tends to make some folks feel better about carrying a cocked pistol, but both systems require that the trigger be pulled to intentionally fire the gun. The half-cock is the backup to the
grip safety (trigger block) and the thumb safety (sear block)

The hammer hooks can both shear completely off at the same instant,
and the hammer won't get past the half-cock, even if the thumb safety is off-safe. an eighth of an inch of the sear nose can break off, and the
half-cock will stop the hammer.

So, if your reason for choosing the Series 80 system is to make the gun safer to carry in Condition One...it's unnecessary, and adds more complexity
to the gun for little more than psychological effect. If you drop your gun a lot, then the system is well worth it. For the possibility that you MIGHT drop it...which is always a factor...just use a standard firing pin spring,
and change it about every 5,000 rounds. The Series 80 firing pin design is
a bit lighter than the standard pin, which will reduce the chances of a drop-bang AD. You'd likely have to drop the gun straight down on a hard surface from the top of a 10-foot stepladder to get it to fire unless you
have touchy primers. As to that...Federal primers are the most sensitive.

Bottom line...It's a GUN! It's NOT safe.


Luck!

Tuner

 

[Sean Smith]

The Series 70 guns are low-volume reproductions of old Colts. That's why they are more expensive. Not because anyone expects you to believe that they are that much nicer than the 01991 series guns. That isn't the point. Colt knows that a decent, but not huge, number of people will pay extra for an old fashoned-looking Colt with an extra-nice polished blue job and no firing pin block, and priced the gun accordingly. If you think the Series 70 is too much money, or like firing pin blocks, don't stand around bitching about how expensive it is, just buy an 01991 and get the same gun with slightly different markings and a firing pin block for $200-300 less.

Also consider that the Series 70 reproduction is meant to compete with the used Series 70 guns that have become in fairly high demand for custom work. So for the same price as a used Series 70 has gone for (at least before the reproduction came out) you get a new gun with better quality control that has the same old-fashoned look and polish as the old gun.

 

[dandean316]

Thanks for the clarifications. I know the S70 is expensive, but since it's a limited run, I guess that's what I would expect. They aren't giving the new Series I Kimbers away either.

 

[45auto]

I'd go with the series 80 and save about $300. Also, I have seen a "slam fire" when the hammer followed the slide down on a reload, wasn't caught by the half-cock notch and fired. The series 80 would prevent that I believe.

If you decide on the series 70, you might as well try to find (look at) their WW1 and WW11 models also, since they are the same price I believe.

 

[dandean316]

I think the S70 runs $800 for a blue, $20 more for stainless. The WWI's cheapest I've seen are $900, with the WWII's going for a bit more (and a LOT more).

I got my S70 for $650 LNIB, so you can find deals.

I can't decide if I should leave it as is, or do a custom job on it. If I were to do a custom Colt, I'd go with a series 70.

I agree with Sean, if you don't like the price tag, get a 1991.

 

[1911Tuner]

Slam-Fire

.45Auto said:

I'd go with the series 80 and save about $300. Also, I have seen a "slam fire" when the hammer followed the slide down on a reload, wasn't caught by the half-cock notch and fired. The series 80 would prevent that I believe.

Yep...It might have...or maybe not. That can happen when somebody goes tinkerin' around with hammer/sear engagements, modifying or removing half-cock notches and bending the sear spring to get a "sweet" trigger. Risky bidness, even when perfectly executed. When that 3-pound trigger is new, life is good. 5,000 rounds later, things have changed. Surfaces
wear...Springs get tired...and the trigger job becomes a liability.

What LIKELY caused that jar-off was actually due to the trigger's inertia
causing it to stand still while the rest of the gun moved forward when the slide went home. When the searand disconnector nudged the trigger bow, the sear rotated enough to break the contact. If it roteted enough to do that, it's entirely posible that the trigger bar lever would have moved enough to cause the plunger lever lift the plunger, releasing the firing pin.
Also possible that the tiny spring under the plunger would have been enough to keep the trigger from touching the disconnector.

Cheers!

Tuner

 

[45auto]

Tuner:

Good call, you were close with 5,000 rounds. 8,000 rounds did it.

I hope the series 80 would prevent that type of AD. . Otherwise I really see no purpose of that system. I suspect there are a lot more hammers dropping when they shouldn't, compared to dropping the gun on it's muzzle from high elevations.

Also, I was under the impression that the "modern" aluminum triggers were light enough so they wouldn't "bounce back" like the old days(steel), enough to AD anyway...given reasonable trigger pulls, etc?
Unless, of course you drop it from several stories up!

 

[1911Tuner]

8 Thousand Rounds

Howdy again 45Auto,

The aluminum trigger probably would have been light enough to prevent the slam-fire...IF...nothing else was wrong. A light trigger only reduces
the chances by providing less momentum, but it still touches the disconnect.
If the hammer/sear engagement is on a fine line, a light touch may be all it needs. If the hammer bounces just a little...and the hooks are .018 inch long...and the sear primary angle is narrow...and the half-pound of tension on the tweaked left leg of the sear spring is now 6 ounces...Well, you get the picture.

Rule of thumb: NOTHING is EVERYthing...but EVERYthing is SOMEthing.
Little things stack up. Slam-fires and full-auto events are a little like
a tornado. The conditions have to be juuuuust right...or wrong, dependin' on how ya look at it.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[Ashendale]

"Thanks for the clarifications. I know the S70 is expensive, but since it's a limited run, I guess that's what I would expect. They aren't giving the new Series I Kimbers away either."

I don't think the Colt Series 70 is a limited run product. From what I understand, it's sold as a "custom shop" pistol to avoid the Series 80 requirement.

Ian

 

[Sean Smith]

I don't think the Colt Series 70 is a limited run product. From what I understand, it's sold as a "custom shop" pistol to avoid the Series 80 requirement.

There is no Series 80 "requirement." Colt may do that as a liability dodge, but lots of companies make non-Series 80 guns.

According to the Colt rep on 1911forum.com, they make the guns in small batches as there is demand for them. They aren't really a "normal" product, but their #s aren't limited in advance like the 1911 and 1911A1 reproduction guns are. They are certainly made in smaller volumes than their other guns.

 

[John Forsyth]

I have both, a NRM and the blue new release S70. They are both nicely fitted and finished. They both run, and are fairly accurate. Not as accurate as my regular comp guns, but good enough.

What has been said above is pretty much it. If I was going to get a shooter to play games with, IDPA, USPSA/IPSC, I would go with the NRM. If I wanted a classic pistol that looks great, to shoot on occasion, and maybe build into a custom later, get the S70. And those are the reasons why I have both. The S70 looks great with ivory grips.

 

[natedog]

I've been wanting a pistol that looks like this. I'm pretty sure that it's an original Series 70. If I were to get the NRM, I'd probably replace the trigger with a shorter, stainless version, like in this picture. Also, I'd get a pair of Colt Gold Medal grips. Does the NRM have the same markings on the left side of the slide as the Series 70? The Series 70 has "Government Model" on the right side of the slide, and the NRM has "Series 80" on the right side of the slide, correct?

 

[WJR]

natedog,

That is a pic of a repro Series 70 that has a short Casull trigger installed. A forum member by the name of DHart took that picture and has posted it several times on 1911forum.com.

The NRM and Series 70 do not have the same markings on the left side of the slide.

Here is a link to a pic of a customized NRM:

http://sigforum.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=674608412&f=430601935&m=64960256

Look at the picture posted by Mildot.

WJR

 

[John Forsyth]

Yep, seen that pic before. That's what my S70 looks like, except for the grips.

 

[natedog]

Just curious, but what kind of sights does the NRM have? Are they the teeny tiny GI 1911 sights? Does anyone have a picture taken from the rear of the pistol, showing the sights? How difficult would it be to replace them with Novak or Meprolight night sights?

 

[BluesBear]

The series 80 would prevent that I believe.

Yes and No.

It's quite simple really, if your finger was still pressing the trigger it would have fired. If not, it wouldn't have.

 

[Sean Smith]

Just curious, but what kind of sights does the NRM have?

They are not the tiny sights seen on the military 1911s. They are high-profile 3 dot sights.

Trijicon 3-dot night sights are direct replacements for the Colt OEM sights. You would have to cut the slide to install Novaks.

 

[dsk]

Speaking as someone who first owned a pair of NRM Colts, then later a pair of Series 70's, let me tell you this. I bought the NRM's thinking they were a better price than the S70's, but soon I began longing for the Series 70 guns anyway. So eventually I bought a matching, consecutive pair of S70 guns and sold the NRM's one at a time to help cover the hole. Had I just waited and bought the S70 guns to begin with I'd have been dollars ahead. Believe me folks, it's a lot better in the long run to buy what you WANT, rather than what's a better value. One or two paychecks later you've recovered, and either you're happy with what you've got or you're not. Buy what you really WANT the first time, and be done with it.