Colt Police Positive .38 Special - Worth the trouble?

[LKB3rd]

The best place to have work done on a Colt revolver is at the factory in Hartford. Their service is good and quick and reasonably priced. It just means you have to ship it.
http://www.coltforum.com/forums/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB7

 

[Old Fuff]

The work done at the Colt factory is indeed good, but I think you'll find that they won't usually take in revolvers that were made before World War Two. The problem is that they, like the rest of us, don't have parts to fix them. Refinishing might (or moght not) be an exception.

 

[vernic82]

Sometimes they will work on them...sometimes they will not.

Eitherway there are parts sometimes available you just have to seach them out.

Bottom line is any gun can be shot, repaired or whatever and used as a tool none have a Soul like a Colt let alone their trigger

 

[Shade00]

If this was most any gun other than a Colt, I would've probably not paid it a second look. But... it's a Colt... and I love my dad's Diamondback. So I would like one too. This particular gun may not be the one for me, but if I could get it going for little more than the purchase price, I would definitely pick it up.

Like I said, I'll stop by again tomorrow and see about oiling the ejector shaft. Hopefully then I can learn something about the lockup.

 

[Hawk]

Reality check: If it needs to be shipped and repaired it will very likely exceed the price of a similar Police Positive on various auction sites and will surely exceed the cost of any comparable and easier to repair and maintain firearm.

Acid Test: If it wasn't a Colt, and didn't have a picture of a horse, would we even be having this (digital) conversation?

No?

This enterprise has already transcended any connection to "shooter" or "tool" and has taken on flavors of "soul" and "trigger" and, well, "Colt-ish-ness". At that point, any attempt at rational thought should likely be abandoned. There's nothing about "soul" that says "budget" or "practicality" to me.

Colts as a hobby ain't cheap, or easy. I wish you well but I should probably refrain from further input. Logic has taken the train out of town and emotion is in the cab. It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

Personally, if I had an overwhelming need to have a picture of a horse that was sure to go up in value I'd invest in an original Frederick Remington.

But...
If it does work out, I'll be the first to applaud and congratulate, particularly if it comes to life with a rag and some CLP. We'll want pictures should that prove to be the case.

But, guns don't have soul - not even those with pictures of horses eating sticks on them. Never have, don't have now and never will.

 

[woad_yurt]

Look at the how-to-check-out-a-revolver sticky. If they're good, buy 'em. Those are cheaply priced if they work.

 

[Shade00]

Hawk, do not think your comments are unheeded - I am not so blind as to buy a Colt no matter the condition. Yes, if it would have to be sent off for repair I would quickly lose the benefit of finding a cheaper gun. So I am not going to purchase the pistol if it appears that I will have to invest in repair. If I was blinded, heck, I'd have it in my hands already. But I am trying to learn - and make an informed purchase. If part of that information is learning that I shouldn't waste money on such a pistol, then so be it - I'll also learn how to check timing, etc., along the way.

That being said - I certainly do appreciate your comments and input. There is nothing wrong with providing a grounded viewpoint in the other direction. The only rationale I can offer for my interest is perhaps emotional - but in this case, I do not need a practical pistol, or one in perfect shape. Heck, there really aren't any other pistols available locally for less than $250, revolver or semi-auto - if there were some reasonably priced Makarovs or PA-63s I might be looking at those instead. But as it stands, I am just trying to learn a lot, take that information, and apply it to a pistol that I ran across. If nothing else, I might be able to use the information someday down the line if I run into another revolver that I am interested in.

Anyway... if it does work out, I will be more than happy to post pictures.

 

[Hawk]

...and I'll even admit to being a little jealous if it does.

I just know it didn't work for me. Doesn't keep me from wishing well for someone else trying though.

 

[Old Fuff]

I suspect the possibility of a sprung (bent) crane. Swing out the cylinder, point the muzzle downward, and turn the cylinder with your fingers. If it turns more freely, close the cylinder, pull the trigger back far enough to depress the bolt, and turn the cylinder again with your fingers while feeling for a bind. If there is one, is it better or worse then before before?

After double-checking to be sure the chambers are empty, latch the cylinder and look at the frame from the front. Push on the left side of the cylinder and see if you can push the crane away from the frame. If so, the crane is sprung.

This is a fairly common condition, and not hard to fix, but it takes an experienced 'smith and apparently one isn't available. Therefore while I wouldn't pass up the gun, you probably should.

It has been my experience that you can still find "finish distressed" .38 revolvers that are blue worn, but in fine mechanical shape with clean chambers and bore, in the $250.00 range. These usually are excellent shooters, and it is not necessary to refinish them to get good service. Several of my favorite carry/shooting guns meet this description.

 

[Old Fuff]

In post No. 30, Hawk made some good points, but they leave me with mixed feelings.

The years between the two World Wars saw a decade of prosperity and a following one of great economic stress. These were hard times, but because it was such, Smith & Wesson and Colt turned out handguns of unexcelled craftsmanship and quality – at a level we are unlikely to ever see again. I treasure these firearms for the marvelous mechanical excellence that they represent. They may not have a soul, but rather a certain elegance that is now lost.

But if those that came later lack the former gun's fit and finish, they are as a practical matter just as functional, and are made of better materials, and have better sights. Sometimes one has to look toward their individual needs, and then pick what best meets their requirements. I must make myself remember that not everyone has the skills to repair a “junker” and make it back into a useful firearm. This gives me latitude that others don’t share, so what is acceptable, and even desirable to me, may be useless to them.

I also noted that in the same shop there lies, mostly ignored, and old Smith & Wesson revolver that is missing most of its finish and has some minor mechanical problems. The side of the barrel is stamped, "S&W Special & U.S. Service Ctgs." and the serial number in the 67,000 range. It is a .38 1905 Hand Ejector (Military & Police Model) made between 1905 and '06 - one of the first .38 Specials after which over six million followed. We now call it the "Model 10." Its condition reflects over a century of sometimes hard service, yet it's lockwork is still smooth. It may no longer be a shooter, but it remains a jewel. I hope that someone with $150.00 will give it a good home where it can rest in retirement.

 

[Hawk]

I must make myself remember that not everyone has the skills to repair a “junker” and make it back into a useful firearm.

Should it come to pass that you find yourself troubled by this, you could always apprentice one of us. I don't eat much and take up minimal space.


On a kinda-sorta serious note, I have noticed that there seems to be limited resources for learning how to deal with marginal Colt double actions. The DVDs readily available for S&W just aren't there for the Colt. Happily, there appears to be a sufficient supply of parts out there - it's just that "fitting" part that makes me nervous.

There's a load of stuff on the SAA but that doesn't really help.

Kuhnhausen for Colt DAs seems less approachable than Kuhnhausen on 1911s or S&Ws - perhaps this is just me.

It would be very nice to be able to cast a wider net for those of us coming into the hobby more recently. If you ever film yourself illustrating Colt DA diagnositic and repair techniques, I'll commit to buy the first off the burner.

 

[Shade00]

Well, I'm digging this thread up as I finally had a chance to check out the old Colt .38. I took a bottle of gun oil in and had a go at the cylinder.

The results were instantly apparent. The cylinder freed up in short order, was spinning freely, and the hammer would actually rotate the cylinder.

I did my best to check the timing - DA timing locked the cylinder in place well (not really sure what the seer is, but the cylinder was locked about halfway before full cock). SA also locked the cylinder in place.

The cylinder did have a bit of side to side play, but no front to back play. Cylinder to barrel gap was small enough to where I couldn't see it, and I didn't have a feeler gauge on me.

So, it seemed good, but I am untrained and inexperienced. Further thoughts? You guys have shared probably about as much as you can. I am thinking about getting it and cleaning it up, and at worst, I will have it refinished and get some new grips and give it to my dad as a father's day gift for him to hang on the wall.

 

[Majic]

I would avoid less popular calibers like .32 do to cost and finding the round.

But you miss out on some of the great qualities of revolver shooting. The low recoil and extreme accuracy of the .32s and .44s (Russian and Spl) have been lost to the newer shooters today who go about looking for more and more speed out of cartridges.

The cylinder did have a bit of side to side play

Was this checked with the trigger still being held fully back after the hammer has been released?

 

[Shade00]

Majic, I did not check it with the trigger held back. I checked with the hammer cocked and decocked. I will check with the trigger back when I am back in town after a few days.

 

[Shade00]

Well, I was back in the pawn shop the other day and checked the little Colt out again. The cylinder swings free and timing checked out ok. I did not have any snap caps so I didn't want to go pulling the trigger to test DA, so I gently tested by keeping my finger on the hammer to prevent its dropping back. Anyway, it checked out. The pawn shop owner, a nice guy who hooked me up with my Mauser 1914, offered it to me for $125 (taxes included), so I bit.

After getting her home, I played with the action some more and I am pretty happy with it. There is absolutely no cylinder wobble with the hammer down/trigger in. SA locks up tight on time. DA locks up good too. After cleaning her up a little (haven't had time to do any polishing), the cylinder latch is now working correctly. All she needed was a little TLC. No need to order any springs or replace anything. However, the grips are a bit worn, so I will be getting some reproductions, as well as some Tyler T-grips.

Actually, I have been looking for some wood grips for this old C-type Colt. The only grips I can find for it are the repro black rubber. The D-types are easy to find, but they will not fit this one. If anyone has a suggestion, I would certainly appreciate it. I would even settle for stag.

Also, I am considering my options for having the thing refinished. Some of you might question that decision, since I will be paying more to have it refinished than I paid for the revolver. However, I am thinking two things: either 1), I will give it to my father as a gift; or 2) I will keep it and have it engraved one day to pass on to my (future) children. I am considering either hard chroming or rebluing. I am leaning toward the hard chrome since I really like that look, and the hard chrome will stand up to anything. Plus, I am not going for a full out restoration on it. I just want it to look nice.

Here is the old beast. She looks like crap now (especially with no grips), but that will change.

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[Old Fuff]

At $125 you stole it...

If you are considering engraving I wouldn't have it refinished until after the work was done. In the meantime you might save some money, and get a better refinishing job, if you hand polished it out.

As for stocks, I would bide my time, keep an eye on Gunbroker and maybe Ebay and see what might turn up.

If you decide on hard chrome, get someone who is good at it. These old Colts were made to tight tollerances, and I have seen some that stopped working after they were plated.

 

[Shade00]

Good info Old Fuff. I was thinking about going with Chris at Original Metaloy. I have heard a lot of good things about his work. Plus, he's close by, being in a neighboring state.

I will take your advice on the stocks. The ones I have will work for the occasional shooting I plan on doing with it until I am able to find something better.

I am not familiar with the engraving process, so it is good that you are pointing this out. In some email correspondence, Chris at Metaloy told me that the baths they give blued guns remove the bluing in preparation of hard chrome. Would it still be prudent to hand polish, or would I just be wasting time (while also strengthening my wrist muscles)? If I am to engrave it, I guess I would definitely hand polish so that the engraver could see his way around. What is the best method for hand polishing?

Also, do you have any suggestions on who I might send it to if I instead decide to reblue?

Thanks again Fuff!