Colt python vs. S&W 627 performance center non-comp

[Mr.454]

Thanks to all of you for the great posts, after reading JRSpicer426's link I have to go with the Smith. I've spent some time on GB looking for that perfect royal blue 6" Python, and just can't drop 2-4K on some used gun. :banghead: It was never a question of not appreciating them they are beautiful, but for that price it would have to be EXACTLY how I want it. Buds has the 627PC and at 1k I can still send it off with a couple hundred dollars and have it tuned just how I like. Finally something to offset the crappy revolver I already have.

 

[RGPM1A]

I had a 6" colt Python in royal blue. Was the nicest revolver I ever owned. Fit and finish were perfection and the DA action was like butter. However, I used the gun in plate shoots and shot it a lot (10,000+ rounds). I would occasionally shoot full house magnum loads in it too. I eventually replaced the Python with a Smith 686-0 because the Python had a habit of getting out of time and loosing its "bank vault lock up" and start spitting lead. Plus I was always afraid to ding it. After the last trip to Colt I sold the Python (for 5 times what I paid for it) because I lost confidence that Colt could still fix or refinish them properly. I don't have any worries about the Smith and if I ding it or it breaks , so what, I'll get it fixed or get another used one for $400 or $500.

You made the right decision.

 

[22-rimfire]

"I have a hard time believing that a 30 year old design is the be all end all."

I felt the same way until I shot a Python. Some folks like the Colt trigger and others like the S&W trigger. You just have to shoot each of them to make the best decision based on your perception of quality. Nothing beats a Python craftsmanship. There is a reason why it was called the "Cadallac" of 357 revolvers.

You chose the Smith and TODAY I would too. Yesterday, I would have and did choose the Colt. Price counts. Hope you enjoy your Smith when you get it.

These days, my favorite 357 mag revolver for shooting is my Colt Trooper Mark III. Sold the Pythons, but not because of the quality. I collect other Colts and the Pythons just didn't "fit" with my accumulation. Used the $$ to buy other Colts. I have Smith's too. The pre-1980 Smiths are hard to beat and often it comes down to personal preference.

 

[earplug]

L frame S&W

The more I think about what you want. Its a prelock L frame S&W.
It would do everything a Python is suppose to do.
I'd be happy with a new MIM ugly lock 7 shot model.
It would cost less, it would hold up to magnum loads better and it will shoot as well it not better.
Recall when revolvers ruled the law enforcement game of PPC? S&W was and still is the ruling king.
They might have installed python barrels on S&W's for better wad-cutter accuracy. But the majority of shooters shot customized S&W's.
There is a good reason Colt stopped making Pythons. S&W built a better revolver.

 

[mleinmiller]

** Looks like I'm living in a time warp. You have already made your choice, but that post didn't show up until after I had replied. **

I think you will be pleased with either one. I was smitten by the appearance & feel of the Python back in the early 1980's. I have only owned my Python for about 6 months, and love to shoot it. When shooting SA, I have to remind myself to be careful, because it seems that all I have to do is think about it and the gun goes bang. My first shot at the range yesterday was that way.

The Smiths are excellent guns, and have a little different feel in DA. Ideally, you should try to shoot both and see which you prefer. You mention shooting leagues. If this is fast action or outdoors, get the stainless S&W. It would be a shame to ruin the bluing on an old Python by dropping it or having something else happen to it. The original grips alone are in the $250-300 range. If it is indoor target shooting, you could go either way. The 627's additional two rounds are nice (8 shots vs. 6 in the Colt).

If this gun is to be a sentimental keeper from your wife, I'd be tempted to go with the Python just because they are more "special" (rare, out of production, coveted, rising in value). While there are many people trying to replace their recent 401(k) losses with the sale of their safe queen, there are still Pythons to had at reasonable prices. I paid $750 for mine in 95% condition. The challenge will be waiting for the right one to come along. I bought a couple of revolvers while waiting for the right Python, so it might be "easier" to go to your favorite gun store with your wife and let her buy you the S&W.

Good luck in your quest. You really cannot go wrong either way. Let us know what you end up doing.

 

[788Ham]

.454, I have a 6" Python I bought 26 years ago, will never part with it! The color of Royal Blue is impeccable, the finish and fit of the parts is above awesome, truly masterpiece! The action, whether single or double is like a fine Swiss watch, so smooth, like a buttery soft reflex, an absolute pleasure to take to the range. I know the costs are going up, thats why when I dropped the $275 for mine, NIB, I knew I wouldn't be sorry years later, I'm still not! One can buy a Smith at any time, but when you buy the Bentley of firearms, you'll know quality and craftsmanship first hand. Step and and buy one, you'll never regret it.

 

[Guillermo]

There is a good reason Colt stopped making Pythons. S&W built a better revolver

That is REALLY funny.

Python officially went out of production in 1999.

Smith had wandered through the Bangor Punta years and started with MIM guns by 1999.

The decline of Smith has been a comedy.

 

[Coal Dragger]

I have always like the looks of the Python, but never have had a chance to shoot one. Given the going price for an unmolested used one in good condition, I could just buy new Smith and Wesson and have it tuned up/have any cheap parts replaced as needed and still come out money ahead. Plus still be able to get work done to it since guys that can work on a Python are literally dying off.

Or I could just go buy a nice Freedom Arms Model 97 and have a more accurate gun than either the Python or a tuned up Smith and be done with it for the same money.

 

[Bill B.]

I could just go buy a nice Freedom Arms Model 97 and have a more accurate gun than either the Python or a tuned up Smith and be done with it for the same money.

I would love to see some tests from a Ransom Rest that prove that! Do you have a link to any?

 

[22-rimfire]

When shooting SA, I have to remind myself to be careful, because it seems that all I have to do is think about it and the gun goes bang. My first shot at the range yesterday was that way.

One needs to be careful in single action. I have a Smith M57 that seems to go off just thinking about it sometimes. Of course, I know different. That M57 is the most accurate of the M57's I own, or I just shoot it best...?

For years, I bought only Colts unless Colt didn't offer a gun in the caliber I was looking for. The M57 is a good example. Would have loved to see Colt offer an Anaconda in 41 mag.

454, I think you'll be happy with the Smith.

 

[General Geoff]

That is REALLY funny.

Smith may or may not build a better revolver, but they make a revolver that's more efficient to mass-produce and thus cheaper, per unit, to make. That is why they still make them; because they actually profit from them.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Bill B.,

No unfortunately I have seen no definitive head to head test of accuracy single action revolver vs double action revolver. Much less a Python vs one of the Freedom Arms guns.

Mechanically a precision fitted single action with a 1873 style frame has some advantages right out of the gate though over a double action revolver with a swing out cylinder. There is inherently a lot less potential for vertical and lateral "play" in cylinder position when your cylinder has only one axis to rotate around, versus two for a swing out cylinder double action. You also have the dubious advantage to accuracy of being able to use a tighter barrel cylinder gap since fore and aft cylinder movement is also more limited. Given equal care in manufacturing the single action frame has a higher potential for mechanical repeatability (and durability).

One other advantage the Freedom Arms enjoys is line boring of the cylinder instead of having the chambers cut in mass produced fashion. You can't interchange the cylinders because of this, but at least you know every chamber was bored out while timed to that frame.

I could site anecdotal evidence of games where an accurate revolver is a key to success like metallic handgun silhouette, where you see many Freedom Arms revolvers used (and winning) and zero Colt Pythons but that may not have as much to do with lack of accuracy as lack of strength and durability. While that game requires a supremely high level of accuracy, and .357 Magnum is still a popular round to use, the loads used to knock down targets are on the heavy to insanely heavy side. Also for point of fact the larger Freedom Arms M83 is predominately used here with a 5 shot cylinder and 60,000psi operating pressure.

I also won't bother to claim that because I've never heard of a Freedom that wouldn't shoot means they are all super accurate, or observe how tightly fitted all of them have been that I have seen. I've handled both at the same time and the FA's were all frankly much more solid, and appeared to be made to much higher precision. But appearances are just that.... appearances, and they can be quite subjective.

All that said, given a test where say a Python and Freedom Arms M97 were purchased at random with similar barrel lengths in factory new unfired condition (to keep the control parameters even), I would expect the Freedom Arms to be more accurate by a comfortable margin with a wider variety of ammunition. This prediction based on manufacturing tolerances and inherent mechanical advantages alone.

 

[Guillermo]

more efficient to mass-produce and thus cheaper, per unit, to make

undeniable

 

[HelterSkelter]

colt pythons tend to shoot slower than more modern revolvers, especially smith and wessons. a shorter barrel sw will shoot faster than a longer barrel python. i'm not saying i don't like colt's guns, but if you are going for a gun to shoot get the sw, better yet, get a ruger.

 

[vanfunk]

colt pythons tend to shoot slower than more modern revolvers, especially smith and wessons. a shorter barrel sw will shoot faster than a longer barrel python.

My 6" Python must be defective, then, as it displays velocities over 100 fps faster than my neighbor's 6" S&W 686. Seriously, though, given adequate sample size, I cannot imagine this assumption being true.

As to the Colt vs. S&W debate, I have had both, and now have many more Colts than S&W revolvers. I just prefer the feel and action of the Colts, and I shoot them better as a result. My Python, made in 1976, still locks up tight as a drum and can't have more than an 8 lb double action pull. The single action trigger is divine, and better than anything I've experienced with a S&W PC handgun. The S&W guns are very, very nice, but for the things that matter to me, I'll go with a Colt every time nowadays.

vanfunk

 

[Stainz]

I have a bunch of MIM-equipped S&W's. Like most everyone you talk to who owns and uses such, and not the non-owner self-proclaimed firearm pundits, plinker or competitor alike, they have been 100% reliable. They definitely don't look as good as CCH forged parts. If you are into function vs form, you won't mind the MIM parts.

The PC Shop, witness my two new 2 5/8" PC 627 UDR's bought last year, still uses forged parts. They must be hand-fitted - a requirement - and something you expect from a PC Shop product. The uniformity of MIM parts make regular production S&W's easily produced with quite good triggers. In fact, a comparison of my two PC627 UDR's and my 627 Pro will reveal the latter 627 has the better trigger. And, by all means, if you like cast metal parts, consider a Ruger!

A PC627, heck, even a 627 Pro - and a return to S&W for a lighter action - will give you a real-world shooter you can try to wear out. Congratulations.

Stainz

 

[Guillermo]

even S&W admit that MIM was to lower costs, not raise quality.

FYI, MIM parts are more expensive to make that forged but require no finishing. When they come out of the mold they are a "finished product"

So basically, MIM is not better than forged, just better than hiring an expensive, unmotivated union worker to finish a forged part

I AM into function over form therefore my Smiths have forged parts.

they can be polished (not true of MIM)

they fit or can be fitted (difficult with MIM)

forged parts can be chromed, although rarely need it (MIM parts, like the Jerry Miculek trigger have been chromed but the chrome doesn't stick well)



so for anyone that sits around, sipping the S&W kool-aid with an MIM, IL revolver in your holster ask yourself this...

if forged isn't better, why does Smith crow about using forged in some PC guns?

 

[Cocked & Locked]

hard decision...

I like to shoot my S&W 627-PC often...



I like to gloat over my Python, shoot it some and carry it even less.

 

[David Drury]

If we're talking heirloom quality, I'd say go with the Python every time... but can I give another selection? The Python and 627 PC are both very nice revolvers... but I got one that will surprise you.


Get a GP100. Ruger's may not be the most fancy of the lineup, or the most pricey, but they are bank-vaults in lockup and they have extensible range to modify and work with. Every Ruger I've ever put my hands on whether it was 30 years old or 30 minutes old, has has the same excellent quality of lockup, timing, and durability. You can't go wrong with a nice Ruger.

GP100 is the way to go...

Dave

 

[tinygnat219]

Mr.454,

Just wanted to know what you intend to do with the revolver? If it's a "working gun" where you're going to have it on your person most of the time, or even sometimes, I'd get the Smith simply because it's current production and if there's a problem, the PC at S&W can fix it. With the Python, those parts are now hard to come by and smiths who can fix them are slowly going away.

If it's for a collectible, just for occassional shooting, get the Colt. They aren't made anymore and prices are going up.

 

[Win1892]

My 45 year old Python, a 6" Nickel 99% beauty, used to sit in the safe. I now very carefully take it to the range about once a month and fire it about 50 times.

Funny thing is, it's the only double action, out of dozens that I own, that I only shoot double action. I relish the slow, smooth, perfect trigger and actually get excited shooting that gun.

I just looked at it in my safe one day and decided not to leave a 99% Python in my estate. If I live long enough maybe it will be 90% instead.

 

[Ric]

I have three PC revolvers and have fingered a few Pythons. I agree that if you want an estate gun to pass on then go with the Python, but I shoot the daylights out of the PC guns and love it.
Early PC 627
PC 586 L-comp
PC 629 2.5 in

 

[NMGonzo]

I have owned a python for a short while.

It was like shooting a carbine kind of accurate.

Smooth as silk action, and with commercial .357 felt like I was shooting my old 22/45.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Too bad Colt isn't interested in making them anymore, it would drive prices of used ones down to sanity. I really wish someone or some organization that really wanted to make good guns and invest in both old and new product lines would buy Colt, move the company from CT, and start building world class products again.

 

[lucky-gunner]

I don't have a Colt Python but do have a King Cobra, Trooper and a PC S&W. I've shot the python before but it was a long time ago. I doubt my frame of reference is very useful there.

The DA action on the PC is smoother than the Cobra. The Trigger breaks cleaner. More of a feeling of breaking glass vs the Colt feeling like breaking wood. Crisp but not as much. The fit and finish is better on the Colt.

I would lean towards the Colt though. Simply because there aren't anymore being made. The PC S&W will be available for the foreseeable future.