Colt Series 70 Gold Cup

[countertop]

Just searching for some opinions.

I've come across a Model 70 Gold Cup from the early 70s (its about as old as I am) in fairly decent shape retaining most of the finish. The only problem I found was that the barrel link pin wasn't very snug and would fall right out when you broke t down. I expect thats easy enough to replace - Brownell's sells replacement links and pins, but don't know if the pin falling out is indicative of some other potential problem. What should I look for?

Is a Series 70 Gold Cup a suitable choice as an occasional concealed carry gun (I work in DC so i can't carry on a daily basis, but I do most weekend days at home, driving my son around).

Also, the price was $650. Is that reasonable??

 

[stans]

I have seen some barrels with really loose link pins. It may well be an undersized pin, I have run across them. You can stake the old pin in place by using a mallet and an small punch to upset a little of the lug metal right around the pin hole. Put the pin and link on the barrel and punch in three spots around the hole on both sides of the barrel. If the gun has been shot a lot or the barrel was improperly fitted, the pin hole could be wallowed out. Look at the leading edges of the upper lugs for signs of peening or smearing.

 

[45auto]

IMHO, if you want a GC and it's in good shape, the price isn't bad. If it's been shot a lot, they are expensive to rebuild.

However, and I have one, I think you could pick a better "carry gun" than a GC. The wide trigger, flat top slide, sharp edges, fragile sharp sights, etc. are not what I would consider to be the attributes of a carry gun.

Again, IMHO, if you want a Colt and will spend $650, you are probably better off with a new goverment model or commander.

 

[endure161]

Probably not the best choice...

My bullseye .45 is a Series 70 Gold Cup. It is a very nice, classy gun that I had accurized by Clark Custom Guns in Louisiana. When I got it from my Dad it had a loose link similar to what you described. It did not affect function but probably made accuracy worse. At distances up to 25 yards I would not think it would make any difference at all in accuracy. Mine was replaced along with other mods so that my gun would shoot tight 50-yard groups. It's a great gun and I like these guns a lot.

That said, I would not use a Gold Cup Series 70 as a carry gun for several reasons. As someone said, it does have several things that could snag on clothing at the worst possible time. Also, most people are not properly trained so that they can confidently and safely carry a single-action auto in cocked-and-locked condition. If one has to rack the slide to load a round into the chamber then it will probably not be ready when a sudden need arises. Most BG's are not going to wait while one gets ready to respond to a threat. Finally a full-size 1911 is a heavy weapon to carry continuously. My thought is that the bigger a gun is the less likely one will carry it regularly. And a carry gun should be part of one's daily routine - not a sometimes thing.

For myself, I carry an Astra A75-L 9mm in a belt holster when I am dressed to conceal it. It is a conventional double-action auto with a decocker. That allows carrying a round in the chamber and the first shot is double-action. Remaining rounds are single-action. When I cannot conceal the mid-size 9mm auto I carry a Kel-Tec P3AT .380 auto in a pocket holster. It conceals great and is easily accessible. The newer and better .380 rounds perform as well as 9mm did several years ago. At 10 yards the little gun is amazingly accurate. As with any weapon carried for protection one needs to practice frequently.

Hope this helps!

Dave Bennett
Georgia

 

[Arc-Lite]

the price is good...very good, and a series 70 is a great base gun to start a custom build, a GC even better. if you don't get it you will kick yourself for passing on it.... as for a carry gun, it will work just fine.... people have been doing it....for a hundred years or more.

 

[GaryP]

I find a full size 1911 a tad on the large side for CCW but that is a personal opinion. Another issue is the rear sight on a GC will tend to snag on loose clothing in CCW mode. Having said that $650 is a good buy if weapon is in very good condition.
A new link pin will most likely fix the loose pin situation. I have seen 1911's NIB with this problem!

Gary

 

[countertop]

I find a full size 1911 a tad on the large side for CCW but that is a personal opinion. Another issue is the rear sight on a GC will tend to snag on loose clothing in CCW mode. Having said that $650 is a good buy if weapon is in very good condition.

How difficult is it to switch out the sites??

The gun I am trying to emulate is my father in laws 1960s colt 1911 he bough in the army. The marksmanship armorer put a gorgeous bluing on it, dropped in a match target barrel and placed a high speed lug on the barrel (essentially a larger and heavier link for quicker action and improved accuracy)

A Gold Cup without the adjustable sites would be very much like his - and its a beauty to shoot. I can only afford one gun and am deciding between this and a 1970s Combat Commander. I occasionally carry (I work across the street from the white house, so I don't carry most days) but really enjoy target shooting at the range.

I understand the carry limitations of the Gold Cup, but what are the target shooting limitations of the Commander?

 

[Robert Hairless]

$650 for a Gold Cup in good condition is an excellent price. It's so good that if it's coming from a dealer I'd be suspicious of it.

The loose link pin is common. Check the barrel lugs for peening, battering, or other damage: if they're okay I wouldn't be concerned about replacing the pin. If possible have a good pistolsmith--one who knows the Gold Cup--check the pistol out. If circumstances don't allow you to take it to a smith develop a friendship with someone who will look at the pistol on site for you.

Don't be concerned if the pin in the Elliason sights is loose: you can replace it yourself for about $2.00. (Call Brownell's tech people for how to do it and the cheap part you need.)

Nevertheless I would look elsewhere if what you want is a carry gun. It was and is a target gun. The Elliason sights weren't made for concealment and are likely to snag when the pistol is drawn from concealment. I don't know of a fixed rear sight to replace the Elliason. There also are some non-standard (i.e., not standard 1911) parts such as the wide trigger. By the time you have the Gold Cup converted to carry use you won't have a Gold Cup anymore. Me, although I have carried a Government model 1911, I find a Commander-size 1911 more concealable and convenient. If you know what you're doing and are careful I bet you could find a used Kimber Pro Carry in good condition for about $650-$700. There are other good Commander-size pistols too. If you prefer a full-size 1911 there still more options.

Understand that I'm not knocking the Gold Cup. It's a wonderful pistol. It just wasn't designed as a carry gun and, in my opinion, there are much more suitable alternatives.

I wonder if what your father-in-law bought while he was in the Army during the 1960s was a military surplus Model 1911 or 1911A. They were so plentiful then that they were (it hurts to say this) a drug on the market. The going price, if I remember correctly, was about $65. I think that's what I paid for mine in 1963. One in good condition was a wonderful defensive weapon and one in not-so-good condition could often be revitalized, as your father-in-law had done. I'd trust my life to mine, but I still prefer the Commander size.

Colt introduced the Gold Cup in the 1950s so I doubt that many people have been carrying it for a hundred years or more.

 

[g56]

How difficult is it to switch out the sites??

I had a Series 70 Gold Cup for a number of years, it would be difficult to impossible to change it over to fixed sights, it uses a different slide from the fixed sight models.

 

[pogo2]

Not a good carry gun

I like Gold Cups and have a number of them, including Series 70. My comments would be:
1. The loose pin on the barrel link could be easily repaired by buying a new pin from Brownells or Numrich.
2. Gold Cup sights are rather unique, and fit in a longitudinal groove on top of the slide. Most replacement sights require a dovetail slot, so changing the sights would be a major production, and not worth the expense, in my opinion.
3. The $650 price is lower than I would expect from a dealer. Has the gun been shot a lot or modified in some way? I'd look it over carefully. But there are bargains in the world, on the other hand, and maybe this is one. A series 70 in excellent, unmodified condition is probably worth at least $900.
4. I wouldn't carry a Gold Cup. The rear sights are big and sharp, and will snag on things. It is also a big, heavy gun. The only 1911 I carry is an aluminum frame Kimber Pro that weighs 28 ounces, with a 4-inch barrel. It is easier to carry and conceal.

 

[pogo2]

Afterthought

I went back to your original posting and saw that you described the gun's condition as "fairly decent" and "retaining most of the finish". That sounds like a condition of good to very good, but not excellent or new, by any means. I think the $650 price may be ample for a 70's Gold Cup in that condition. I'd offer the dealer $600, in fact.

 

[ClarkEMyers]

Wide trigger means problems with holsters from stock

I would particularly emphasize that the wide trigger does not fit a holster properly made for the normal width trigger. There have been negligent discharges from forcing a cocked and locked Goldcup into a holster boned in the modern manner. If not carrying cocked and locked in a good holster why bother? If money is an issue following up with an unusual holster for carry might not make sense.

My bottom line agrees with everybody else - it's a fine gun at an attractive price - it wouldn't hurt to buy it for general use but even if you already owned it I'd say get something else for carry or modification beyond target use.

 

[BluesBear]

I see someone finally brought up the wide triger issue.

Be very careful when selecting a holster. That nice wide trigger it great for target shooting but it is possible for them to get hung up on holster edges.

Now I know the safety is supposed to prevent anyhing bad happening but why take the chance.

Other than that it would be fine for CCW.
I reccommend you buy it anyway.
It seems to be a good deal and if you don't carry it it will only go up in value.

 

[countertop]

Thanks for all the info. I think I've decided to pass on this Gold Cup for a number of reasons - many of them listed in this post so far but also because after examining it once more I notice strange wear patterns on the barrel, as if it was rubbing against the top of the frame for thousands of rounds. Its a weird groove in the side of the barrel that has been worn into it.