COM size?

[M2 Carbine]

COM size?
I'm working on a new head target on 8.5x11 inch paper. Almost all my targets for any gun and any distance are on this size paper.

In the new target I'm thinking about having a thin lined box the "official size" of COM.

At present in my timed practice I use a 4x6 inch circle. A shot out of the circle disqualifies the entire target. In other words, accuracy wise it's either a perfect score or Zero. I'm trying to get the time below a second a shot and still maintain accuracy.
But there are some drills that I may use COM instead of the 4x6 circle.

So, what is the "official" size of COM?

This is all I've done to this new target so far but it's working OK.

 

[Mtnvalley]

If you're making a head target, I'd think a box around the cranio-ocular cavity to be better than a vertical oval. I think the "traditional" boundaries are from below the eyebrow, to the outside of the eyes, to the top of the trough beneath the nose.

"COM" generally stands for "center of mass", which wouldn't appear on a head-only target.

 

[Soap]

There is no official size of COM because it refers to the center of whatever it is that you're actually able to shoot at, not a specific part of the body. For example, if a BG is standing right in front of you, facing you, COM would be the center of his chest. If a BG is behind a concrete wall corner and only 1/2 of his head is poking out, COM is the center of this part that you're able to see. Thus, COM could refer to the center of 1" (the tip of a guy's foot sticking out) or the center of the entire body in a frontal shot.

 

[M2 Carbine]

I probably shouldn't have used the head target as an example because the type of target isn't important.

What I have in mind is putting the correct size COM "box" on other targets also.

This way my most used targets can be used when I, for instance, I am trying for a fast time and COM is good enough.

In other words making my targets more useful.

The funny thing about COM is I haven't seen a standard size. People talk about accepting COM accuracy as good enough, but what size is COM really?


This is the target that I've used for years and I have been accepting the whole BG as being about COM.
But now, if there is a "official" COM size I want to have it on the targets also.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Daniel Flory,

That's the definition I've always accepted to but I thought that in, say, competition circles there is a standard size COM for frontal shots.

And since it's no problem printing any size COM outline on these targets I'd like to print the "correct size" if there is such a thing.

 

[Fred Fuller]

For practice from a static position on a two dimensional static target, you can be as arbitrary as you want, in order to accomodate whatever parameters you wish to impose on yourself. In other words, if you are working on your presentation/sight picture/trigger press, any target you care to establish will work pretty much as well as any other.

But I certainly hope you don't believe that shooting from a static position at a set distance using a a two-dimensional target that is not moving will prepare you for anything other than shooting from a set position at a set distance at a two-dimensional target that is not moving... in other words, punching holes in paper. Traditional target shooting is absolutely necessary in order to establish good habits.

But it has certain limitations if your intent is to better prepare yourself for using a sidearm defensively. It is good at what it does up to a point. And it is a necessary thing to do- no one can progress beyond the flat range until they have flat range skills down pat.

But defensive shooters need more than just flat range skills and habits- some flat range habits are dangerous in a different environment, in fact. Gunfights are dynamic events, and static practice is limited in its ability to prepare you shoot on the move and hit moving targets. You have to learn to shoot on the move and still make hits, you have to learn to hit at different ranges and different angles of engagement, you have to learn to hit from the holster, you have to learn to hit moving targets, you have to learn to place bullets on a three-dimensional target so as to intersect vital areas within the target. All of this takes time and requires a more elaborate practice routine.

Please note that I am not saying there is anything wrong with what you are doing- not at all. But I hope it isn't the only thing you plan on practicing.

Stay Safe,

lpl/nc

 

[RyanM]

For the torso, I'd use the whatchamacallit triangle, formed by the nipples and the top of the sternum. For the head, that other triangle going around the eyes and nose.

 

[jaholder1971]

There's a humanoid silhouette target out there that has 2 flavors, one has the scoring zones and the other is anatomically correct: What I mean by that is that it has the proper placement of the heart, lungs, spine, etc. overlaid on the target. It's one of the targets I use and try to train to keep the shot group centered in the heart/spine area.

Sometimes, I'll put 2 targets up, one behind the other with the zone target in front. After shooting I'll pull the targets and see how I shot based on the rear anatomical target. Brings shot placement into perspective.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Thanks for the replies.

So, apparently there isn't a standard size COM.

I haven't explained this well by using printed targets. The 8.5x11 inch paper can just as well be blank but with about a 1 inch bull and a circle or box representing COM.
So I guess it comes down to opinion.

On an average size individual, facing you, how much extreme spread could your hits have and you would still call them COM hits?

Of course I realize there's a lot more to it than a 7 inch circle or 7x10 inch box but by using a 8.5x11 inch target I have to reduce the accuracy down to the simple concept that inside the box is a hit and outside the box is a miss.

So opinions on max COM size please.
I think everyone would agree that a hit 1-2 inches from the center of the BG's chest is a COM hit, but what about 4 inches from center, 5 inches from center?

Is the whole paper size, 8.5x11, COM ?
Hitting anywhere within 8.5x11 inches would be a hit on most people but I don't think it could be called COM.
Maybe a 6 inch circle?
Or maybe a 6x8 inch box?

I tend to like a 6x8 inch box or 7 inch circle..

Please note that I am not saying there is anything wrong with what you are doing- not at all. But I hope it isn't the only thing you plan on practicing.

No, Lee.
I have a couple home ranges and shoot 2-6 days a week and several evenings a week practicing with lasers, doing most anything that comes to mind.
Since I got a timer a while back I've become interested in improving my speed without a decrease in accuracy. That's one reason I have a self imposed accuracy limit of 4x6 inches during timed practice, so I don't sacrifice accuracy for speed.

But I thought I'd also use another level of accuracy for some timed shooting and accept a COM hit as good and a COM miss will disqualify the whole target and time.

 

[ACP]

From the nipples north, a space about the size of a shoebox (12-14" x 6-8").

From the mouth to the mid-forehead is a space about half the size of a shoebox.

So, from the nipples up, one and half shoeboxes, or about 5-6 horizontal handwidths. That's what I try and keep my shots in -- more vertical than horizontal.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I dislike the term 'COM' as center of mass is somewhere near the diapharm and not a real vital place like the heart/lungs or CNS.

Personally, I'd like to see a cross between a IDPA and a IPSC mil-park target.

Use the IPSC head with the small 'A' zone, and the IDPA '0' circle zone on the chest. Anything outside either one rates maybe 1/2 of 'A/0' zone and anything in the outer zone is considered a miss.

We tend to make the targets way to large as for scoring, maybe that's to not discourage newbies, but still it's unrealistic.

 

[Obiwan]

I use a 10-8 inspired target

see attatched

 

[BedPimp]

It seems to me there is no standard size as it would change depending on distance.

Something 5 yards away provides a much bigger target than something 25 yards away.

For me, I'd like to be able to shoot the smallest area at the furthest distance in the quickest time when it comes to traditional paper target shooting. On top of that, I want to train in a vast number of different scenarios with reactive, changing targets in a variety of different environments.

Paper target training works on my basic handling/targeting skills. Getting the gun from the holster into firing position, acquiring target, reloading, etc. Makes it all part of muscle memory so I don't need to think about what I'm doing, it just happens. It's the unconscious part of the skill set, for me.

Reactive targets help refine those skills, but also add the conscious part into what I'm doing. Where is my target going, is it appropriate, what's behind it, do I need to be concerned with anything else. It builds on the prior skills, which can't be neglected, and adds new elements.

These are my opinions based on how my mind works, and what methods work for me. I don't profess to be anything more than some guy on the internet who shoots on occasion.

 

[RyanM]

On those anatomical targets, those are probably not a particularly good idea. The location of organs is going to be highly dependent on the specific angle the guy's body is at, relative to you, and the majority of those targets have the guy facing you directly. Not exactly realistic.

 

[Hardtarget]

My buddy always said "the center of everything is the same size...a pin point!"

thinks he's smart.

I don't shoot good enough to worry about the center...doing good just to hit it!

Mark.

 

[strambo]

If we're talkin' torso and fast/close defensive shooting...anywhere within an 8 1/2 X 11" paper size if centered from diaphragm to sternum if fine with me. That will cover the heart, lungs, spleen, kidneys, liver and vena cava/aorta as well as spine.

Head shots, use the cranial-ocular cavity mentioned earlier. Smaller target to hit and get good results. Blowing through the jaw or cheek won't do much. A high shot can glance off the skull like a helmet or just damage the frontal lobe and exit. basically, from below the eyebrows to just above the upper lip in an inverted triangle. Tip of the nose as a low of center reference.

 

[M2 Carbine]

The no longer used Texas concealed carry qualification target has a 12 inch COM circle.
The target is on the large size though.

 

[Trebor]

The NRA uses a 8.5x11" sheet of paper or a 9" paper plate to represent COM in their "Personal Protection" classes.

 

[M2 Carbine]

The NRA uses a 8.5x11" sheet of paper or a 9" paper plate to represent COM in their "Personal Protection" classes.

OK, good info.
This is what I'm going to do.

The square, white, body area of my most used target is 6.25 inches high x 7 inches wide. I think that's close enough to call COM.

I tried it out this afternoon.
My time improved with about two thirds of the shots below a second.
I'm not satisfied with how much the hits are spread out but it leaves room for inprovement.

Thanks you all for the opinions and information.