Commander locking open before empty

[RJ357]

Actually the commander is all stock and new. It's the 1991 compact that was used but like new.

Dave Sample -
The angle at the rear of stop seems close to zero; there doesn't seem to be any tendency for it to move down by plunger spring pressure. Seems the same also on my other Colts and a Springfield. Gun is all stock and almost new.

George Hill -
Haven't tried a new lever yet. All my other levers seem identical. But I plan on trying something different in there.

Missouri Mule -
Did you have other reasons for changing the spring besides that one problem? And did the new spring affect anything else?

1911Tuner -
Just moving the magaine up through the well, nothing touches. But I can force the round far enough to the left so the bullet hits. With the slide on, the top round looks to be always above the stop, even while the bottom of the slide is holding it depressed in the pre feed position.

It is sounding like the stop is just bouncing up, especially since there is no actual downward spring force on it.

Here's a theory I have about the recoil springs:
Maybe everything has to be timed just perfectly for the stop to bounce up just as the notch is passing by. Could that any spring change, either stronger or weaker changes the timing of the bounce. In one case it bounces up too soon to catch the notch and in the other case it bounces up too late.

 

[Missouri Mule]

1911Tuner
Sir I do apologize...I din't really mean to be defensive. I reckon I may have transferred a little of the BS from some of the other sites I watch.
Again I am sorry!

I really do appreciate this site!

The solution to my pistols premature slide lock was probably luck on my part. It would occur with four different Wilson mags as well as 2 Kimber mags and 4 different Colt mags.

As stated I am not a professional in any regard to guns.
I have however owned and used various 1911s for more than 20 years.
I am also a tinkerer. I like to solve my own issues. I have also learned that no two 1911 are the same. Like any other mechanical device it will have it's own characteristics and preferences.

So far this is the only 1911 that I've owned which I haven't been able to resolve it's issues by tinkering with it.

That one issue is the occassional FTE after it starts getting dirty or fouled.
I have tried various oils on the rails I have also tried a number of different greases. I have varied recoil spring weights, different loadings etc, etc.

I have learned that with this pistol the factory set up is the most reliable.

I have lighty lapped the frame / slide rails and lightly polished the chamber.
I have also replaced the extractor with Kimbers " dimpleless" version.

Those things seem to have help since it now runs a little longer before failing. Another thing I have noticed is the pistol seems to be a little hard on recoil springs. I also experienced that with a Officer's model I used to own. In that case if I changed springs every 500 rounds it ran nearly flawlessly.

This little Kimber mostly "seems" to just be sensitive to dirt / fouling.

 

[1911Tuner]

Li'l Kimber

Missouri Mule said:

This little Kimber mostly "seems" to just be sensitive to dirt / fouling
_____________________

If your occasional FTF when dirty is a failure to return to full batttery,
it's very possible that the chamber is a little tight...likely right on the low end of tolerance. That seems to be a trend lately, and whenever I drop a finishing reamer in a chamber, I get chips 9 times outta 10.

One thing to check is to see if the barrel rides the link as the slidestop pin
rounds the front radius of the lower lug. If it does, that can cause a light 3-point-jam...aka stem bind. It may not be quite enough to cause a problem until the gun gets dirty.

Kimber's "dimpleless extractor"... Is it an internal extractor or external? I don't have occasion to run into many Series 2 Kimbers...if that's what yours is...but if yours has the traditional internal extractor,
it may be that it's a little too rigid to provide the springiness that it needs
when the tension is right. There's a simple cure for that...If this applies,
Let me know and we'll see if we can nail your bug. I've been known to
step outside of the traditional lines at times to get one to run.

Oh yeah! No foul, no harm...and I understand completely about some of the other forums.

 

[Missouri Mule]

My occassional, when dirty failure, is actually a fail to extract. The empty remains in the chamber while a fresh round noses up behind it.

I will try to determine if it is the stem bind failure you described. Thanks!

This pistol is a Series II with the external "Tactical Extractor".

The original factory extractor is actually dimpled, center punched? I assume that is for id purposes ??? Anyway, this one has no dimple. The Kimber rep I spoke with stated, these extractors have been through several revisions.
She called the one she sent me "Dimpleless" and the latest version at the time.
The newer extractor appears to have a slightly longer and wider claw.
Other than that I don't see any real difference.

Thanks!
'mule

 

[1911Tuner]

Premature Slidelock

Howdy Missouri Mule. Sorry I've been away from this one for a while.

Okay...Sorry I've been off this one for this long.

I've re-thought the question...again...and come up with an alternate theory on the mechanics of the event. See if it makes sense.

Both are due to the stop jumping into engagement under recoil, but two different forces are at work. In my case...recoil spring being too heavy...
inertial response is the bug. I've noticed that the heavier the spring, the more the gun fights my grip, and my had tires faster than with a lighter spring.

In your case...the stop pops up into engagement due to higher impact
energy between slide and frame...and the heavier spring softened that impact enough to either reduce/eliminate that rebound effect...or it occured at a different time. By the time the stop bounced, the window of opportunity...the stop notch...had come and gone. What your spring change did was to alter the timing of the bounce just enough to prevent
engagement.

My spring change also altered the timing and eliminated the window of opportunity...but in a different way. I may have been able to accomplish the same thing by going even higher on the recoil spring change...but
I tend to think in terms of lower spring rates to keep other timing issues at bay.

Both reasons for the premature lock are related to timing...Both are
cured by altering the timing of the slide, but for different reasons. My guess is that inertia or impact-induced premature slidelock has such a narrow window of opportunity, that the conditions must be just so in order for it to occur...assuming that the slide stop isn't overly heavy, and the angle at the rear isn't out-of-spec....and that if we can change the slide's position just one-tenth of an inch when the bounce occurs, we can eliminate it. A good plunger spring would also work to keep the stop where it belongs, but that's not the whole issue. It's part of the picture, but only one part.

This matter of timing apparently goes deeper than we suspect.

Oh yeah...Don't sell yourself short because you're "Just a Tinkerer". When we get a real problem child that won't respond to conventional adjustments or cures...which often happens...we all become tinkerers in order to fix the problem. That's what a lot of engineering and design entails. Try something. If it doesn't work, try something else until ya find what does...and then use it often to see if it works consistently enough to mark it down in a log for future reference.

Several years ago, I learned one of the most basic lessons of troubleshooting from a guy who used to come hang around and watch me tinker with pistols. he had been brain-damaged due to a bicycle accident when the was about 7 or 8, and his mental state had frozen at about that level of maturity. I had a pistol that just wouldn't respond. He asked me what was wrong, and I told him that I had done everything that I was supposed to do, and the gun wouldn't work. This man-child shrugged
and said: "Well..Then try something that you're NOT supposed to do."
The logic of a genuis came from a man who couldn't even learn basic multiplication tables...but he had the gift of logic that was uncluttered by
education.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[Missouri Mule]

Damn Man!
You put a lot of thought into that explanation. I understand what you are saying. In my situation I fell back on my experiences with a somtimes cranky Colt Officer's model. That dang thing would go though new recoil springs in about 400-500 rounds of hardball. At that point it would start throwing fits until I dropped in a spring.

Eventually I got around to trying some Cor-Bons in it. Those things really pounded that little pistol. It would prematurely lock the slide back sometimes every other round. So I tried a 24lb spring setup. Wah Lah!
That fixed that and I ran that spring trouble free for the next ~1000 rnds +/-.

Chances are in this case I probably just got dumb butt lucky.
I tried the heavier spring just because I was shooting +p's

It is my opinion that the Speer 200gr +p's are too hot for this pistol even
with the x-tra power recoil spring. I don't intend to use them anymore in this Pistol. They work great in my 5" Kimber though.

It makes me feel good though that a man of your experience and a man of my experience ,Ha! Ha!, seem to have come to roughly the same conclusion in similar but separate situations.

I bought a plunger detent spot drill to try if it pops up again.
And, I am sticking with standard HP's for CCW.

Thanks again kind Sir!
'mule

 

[1911Tuner]

Explanations

Missouri Mule said:

Damn Man!
You put a lot of thought into that explanation.
__________________

Yeah. Makes my head hurt sometimes. It's a helluva lot simpler when the lug gets bumped...

 

[RJ357]

So my theory was pretty good, huh?

Here's a theory I have about the recoil springs:
Maybe everything has to be timed just perfectly for the stop to bounce up just as the notch is passing by. Could that any spring change, either stronger or weaker changes the timing of the bounce. In one case it bounces up too soon to catch the notch and in the other case it bounces up too late.

Anyway, what is the best way to fix it? Do I want to change the angle on the rear of the lever? Or cut a small indent?

Are the Colt parts expected to work by friction pressure alone?

 

[1911Tuner]

Friction

Friction and spring tension on that plunger pin, RJ...

Yep. Your theory was logical. As to whether yours OR mine are correct is anybody's guess...

So...We're back to "Try another stop and see what happens. Put a new plunger spring in it and see what happens. That's the way these things go sometimes, and we're reduced to mere tinkerin' to find the cure...

Tuner <---Proud to be a Tinkerer

 

[RJ357]

Tinkerin's good. Something to do when not shootin'.

OK, that should give me some things to try.