Component Prices vs Ammo Prices

[WVsig]

Granted, I don't go searching for it, but I sure don't see 9mm ammo for 13 cents anywhere. That's what I reload it for using fmj bullets. I have seen it for 18-19c per round, but then there was shipping involved.

That deal was AE @ Brownells for 1000 rounds for $199. You added a $1 item to get to $200 used a coupon for $20 off and free shipping. You then get a 25% off rebate from AE.

It's only been 10 months since people thought it was the end of the world.
The shelves are filling up.. and up.. and up. Which means at some point there will be a correction assuming there is room for a correction. It "may" be possible the component companies just can't make it much cheaper. I don't know.

That is not what I am seeing in my area. There is better availability online but locally it is still pretty low. As for price I looked at my logs and I bought 8 lbs of HP-38 in Dec 2015 for $135 delivered, in a fairly large order justify the hazmat fee, I could get that same 8lbs today for $145ish depending on what else I ordered online. That is just about double the rate or inflation. $5 inflation + $5 raise in price. I can't find an 8lb jug locally. Powder markets are still very local.

 

[rg1]

We've been gouged by ammo and component companies for several years now. Plus gun manufacturers. NOW they are beginning to panic. Sporting Goods and Gun shops in my area are practically empty. The employees behind the counters look perplexed. I think you should buy only what you need short term now and wait for the 300% price increases to plummet. They are offering 10% sales which is nothing. Yes, supply and demand so the supply is up and demand down so they need to drop prices.

 

[z7]

perhaps it is just my observations, but I believe I am seeing more adds and coupons for more discounts on reloading components like powder and primers. there have been bullet sales occasionally ever since I started reloading in 2014, but the sales for powder and actual good deals on primers seem new. granted, primers have gone up a lot, but not recently for me. I "grew up" with $30 being a decent price. the S&B from Cabelas for $24 is too good to pass up for me.

 

[egd]

I started about 2015 and my experiences mirror z7. I consider primer cost under $30 (final delivered) to be a decent deal.

 

[FROGO207]

Well it was not too many election cycles ago that primers were $12 per K and Blaser Brass 9MM 50 RDS FMJ were $3.99 locally about anywhere. Everything will increase in track with inflation but any more than that and it becomes "no deal" to me. I am the patient sort and will wait for the eventual correction to happen if things are artificially too high to begin with. Sometimes you can see the future for certain like me buying my tank of fuel oil four days before the hurricane hit Texas and saved $.50 a gallon so far. Got lucky that day. I agree that you should buy only what you need to stay at current levels for the immediate future. Then take advantage of the sales when they happen. For years I did this as well as buy two use one program over the years. I still have .22 ammo that I paid out $10-$12 for 555 round bulk packs. Two full 50 cal ammo cans worth (one WIN/one FED) just dumped in that I did not have to get into before .22 ammo came back on the shelves in good amounts. I doubt that I was any part of the reason .22 ammo dried up around here when it did either. Please note however this only works if you have the spare funds to purchase supplies in the first place though.

 

[otisrush]

I like the previously mentioned idea of dollar-cost-averaging.

As far as buying now vs later is concerned I look at it this way: In which scenario will I feel the worst?
* I buy now and component prices come down.
* I wait thinking prices might come down. Then prices come down.....or something bad happens and there's another shortage.

Being stuck in a shortage is the worst. By far.

During the last shortage (before I started loading) I went a full year without pulling the trigger on a round of .22. I had none. At that time I vowed I would never be out of what I wanted again.

I'm going to stock up now and be happy I'm stocked. That's much better to deal with than not being able to get what you want, IMHO.

 

[brewer12345]

Well, it looks like you can buy Aguila standard velocity .22LR for $20 a brick again. That tells me people are well and truly done panicking, at least for rimfire. It also tells me I can bide my time on buying powder and wait for sales.

Frankly, the whole reason I started reloading is that I do not like being at the mercy of panics and droughts for target, trap and hunting. I managed to lay in enough ammo as the last panic was just getting started to not feel any pinch on what I wanted to do, but I also took the warning seriously. I started reloading shotshells first as there is nothing I cannot take (save elk) with some kind of 20 gauge shell. I now reload for pistol and am learning rifle. I plan to cast my first batch of bullets next week. If you have the molds, a pile of scrap lead can be turned into anything from a round ball to a handgun bullet to any kind of rifle bullet to a shotgun slug. Throw in some powder and primers and shortages pass right over your head.

 

[Buck13]

I am thinking of selling my 10 mm pistol (EAA/Tanfoglio Hunter) and replacing it with a Glock 34 or something along those lines. When all ammo was scarce, the 10 mm kind of made sense, but I don't really need the excessive recoil (I thought I would use it for IHMSA Field Pistol, but I have not shot that game since buying it, and the 9 mm would probably do anyway, if I did finally get back to that range) and I am tired of chasing rare brass. Without progressive reloading, shooting auto pistol is not much fun! I am dreaming of just reloading for my revolvers and burning 9 mm factory ammo.

 

[Speedo66]

+1, agreed 9mm is too inexpensive to reload. I save my time and energy for bigger ticket items like .357 and definitely for .38-40, which runs to $75 a box for some brands.

 

[everydefense]

I haven't taken action yet, but recently I realized that I have been slacking on stocking up, and right now is a great time to steadily build up supplies. The biggest hurdle is always clearing these purchases with the CFO...

 

[LiveLife]

The biggest hurdle is always clearing these purchases with the CFO

I resolved that issue many years ago ... My CFO (wife) simply gets to spend double what I spend.

2014 was a good year for her as I spent over $7,000 on shooting/reloading items for Christmas and you guessed it, wife was happy to spend over $15,000! Sure, my wallet takes a big hit but she no longer questions what I buy.

You know, life is short and you can't take money with you.

 

[Toprudder]

I have to reluctantly agree that 9mm factory ammo is cheap enough now that it really doesn't make much sense to reload it, as far as cost savings go. BUT, I have a 9mm 16" AR that does not do well with factory loads, but is just awesome with a load that I worked up for it. The rifle is a little finicky with bullet profile (likes RN only) and seating depth.

I also load reduced recoil loads for my wife. She pays for the bullets.

 

[LiveLife]

Regarding feasibility of reloading 9mm ...

How do you like your steak?

If you like your steak rare or medium rare, then well done steak just won't do, no matter how cheap it is.

That's the beauty of reloading - You get to produce ammunition just the way YOU like it.

 

[thomas15]

Regarding feasibility of reloading 9mm ...

How do you like your steak?

If you like your steak rare or medium rare, then well done steak just won't do, no matter how cheap it is.

That's the beauty of reloading - You get to produce ammunition just the way YOU like it.

You are of course correct and it seems that what you are saying is somewhat lost on some posters. For example, I have several thousand rounds of 9mm factory ammo (I have had this for years) of various makes and loads and still only use my handloads. Why? because I load for specific requirements (as you do also) and factory ammo in the popular load configurations does not deliver the performance I want. Will it go bang? Yes. Does it do what I want? No. Most of my handguns have had action work done on them and light springs that will not set off some ammo such as win white box with their hard primers. So I get so-so performance and unreliable ignition which is ok for the occasional shooter but a major problem for the competitor, even a competitor that isn't top shelf.

If saving money is the motivation for handloading 9mm then probably not worth it. If having the optimal load(s) for specific applications and having an uninterrupted supply and you consume large quantities then you will not even be asking the question (for the umpteenth time) "is it worth it to handload 9mm?"

The other aspect of this question is how much ammo is the 9mm shooter consuming on an annual basis? Not to offend anyone but if you consume 500-1000 rounds per year then buy factory ammo because you are not shooting much and you probably wouldn't appreciate the performance improvements handloads can offer.

Finally high volume shooters can shoot during times of scarcity of ammo. 10,000 rounds of 9mm (in 50 round boxes) is 200 boxes. This is like buying 4 boxes of ammo every week of the year. No one that I know does this and everyone I personally know who uses even 5000 rounds of 9mm/year handloads on a progressive press. Yes the first year you will be lucky to break even then after that things are better.

 

[LiveLife]

The other aspect of this question is how much ammo is the 9mm shooter consuming on an annual basis? Not to offend anyone but if you consume 500-1000 rounds per year then buy factory ammo because you are not shooting much and you probably wouldn't appreciate the performance improvements handloads can offer.

Finally high volume shooters can shoot during times of scarcity of ammo. 10,000 rounds of 9mm (in 50 round boxes) is 200 boxes. This is like buying 4 boxes of ammo every week of the year. No one that I know does this and everyone I personally know who uses even 5000 rounds of 9mm/year handloads on a progressive press. Yes the first year you will be lucky to break even then after that things are better.

When I shot USPSA matches, my monthly round count was around 1000-1500 and went up as high as 2000+. You could probably get by with 500 rounds but that's with very limited practice.

Many reloaders tell those interested in reloading that while cost-per-round decreases, since they end up shooting more it will negate the money saved.

But consider this.

I am approaching 500,000 rounds reloaded (I use number of primer boxes to keep track of round count) and while there currently are 9mm ammo available for $9/50, that hasn't been the case for me in past decades. Cost of 9mm where I lived averaged twice what I could reload.

So if I averaged $6/50 reload cost for 500,000 rounds, it comes to $60,000. If I had to buy factory ammo (and I have bought plenty of factory ammo mind you), I would have spent at least $120,000 (And just imagine the amount of sales tax I had to pay on $120,000).

And I loaded plenty of 40S&W/45ACP and 500,000 round count does not include rifle cartridges I reloaded which all have cost savings way more than 9mm. So actual cost of ammo overall could be way north of $150,000.

So for me, reloading is absolutely "feasible", even for 9mm.

Fact is, I probably have saved over $80,000 by reloading various pistol and rifle cartridges over factory even though I shot additional rounds. And since I plan on shooting another 20+ years along with my children and their children, I may save another $80,000.

Think about it.

 

[Jim Watson]

My present 9mm load is $117 a thousand for powder, primer, and bullet. Range pickup brass, mine or anybody so extravagant as to not recover theirs.
"Remanufactured" ammo with the same bullet is $218.50 a thousand.
That is 147 grain plated subsonic. Generic 115s would be cheaper to buy or load, but I like the recoil characteristics of the heavier bullet. Others do, too. Three shooters here have tried my stuff and have gone to similar ammo.

 

[Fire_Moose]

I am approaching 500,000 rounds reloaded (I use number of primer boxes to keep track of round count)

Think about it.

I'm imagining a corner of a room stacked floor to ceiling with multiple stacks of empty primer boxes.

 

[LiveLife]

No, empty primer boxes are long gone.

I just keep track of them as they are used up. Besides, it would only be about 500 boxes.

 

[Fire_Moose]

Ya, guess i should have said sleeves.

 

[LiveLife]

Yes, about 100 sleeves.

Ah, memories of good times ... still being made.

 

[WVsig]

My present 9mm load is $117 a thousand for powder, primer, and bullet. Range pickup brass, mine or anybody so extravagant as to not recover theirs.
"Remanufactured" ammo with the same bullet is $218.50 a thousand.
That is 147 grain plated subsonic. Generic 115s would be cheaper to buy or load, but I like the recoil characteristics of the heavier bullet. Others do, too. Three shooters here have tried my stuff and have gone to similar ammo.

I am loading at $102 per thousand. That is with 124gr bullets, HP -38 and range brass. For me it is worth doing but only if I do not factor in the time it takes me to reload.

In the end I think these threads are silly because it is really just people justifying that they want to do. People who like to reload always find reasons to justify it.

 

[LiveLife]

In the end I think these threads are silly because it is really just people justifying [what] they want to do. People who like to reload always find reasons to justify it.

Avid hunters and 1000 yard benchrest shooters won't consider what they do is "silly" nor countless bullseye and action pistol match shooters who hone their "art" to perfection.

Talk to some tuna fishermen (Not commercial fishermen but sports fishermen) and hear some of their "essential" justification for expensive gear and you will soon agree that such expensive equipment is necessary for their sport and ensuring they come back to harbor instead of being shark bait. Just one of their salt water reel will cost more than a Dillon 550 or LNL AP press. And there are many reasons why a Yamaha 150 HP outboard costs more than $12,000 and you need two of them on your boat. I work with a "sport" fisherman with a 60 foot boat who just returned from a 2 week fishing trip and diesel fuel alone costed him $3500 - Yes, he did catch a lot of tuna but that's for a different thread.

Yet I can't bring myself to justify an upgrade from my humble 21" aluminum fishing boat for a trophy boat or Boston Whaler or even a Mako boat. Why? While I like to fish, I am deathly afraid of being shark bait and will keep trolling around the coastline for Ling cod, Rock cod and Vermillion zipping along in my boat with Berkeley jet drive.

Talk to four wheelers and they will gladly explain why they need to spend $30,000 on a brand new $60,000 4x4 truck to "bullet proof" everything. Our family grew up riding quads and we went through several tow vehicles and toy haulers not to mentions various quads. Of course you can't afford to break down in the middle of nowhere and my wife could easily justify every dollar spent on every upgrade of "her" trucks and quads - absolutely necessary for family fun without the worry of break down. No, we didn't spend $30K on a new $60K truck, more like several thousand dollars on a used truck that costed several thousand more dollars. Cost of toy haulers? That's another story and wife did finally get her new 2016 Ram 4x4 truck with EcoDiesel and Outdoorsman trim with all the goodies yet to be installed for retirement.

I like to cook and can absolutely justify every dollar spent on my outdoor kitchen and various cooking equipment/utensil of several thousand dollars but since we ate home cooked meals instead of dining out, we probably saved tens of thousands of dollars over the decades.

Ultimately for me, shooting and reloading is a hobby that some may consider a passion. My approach to life is that it is short and we will leave it just like we entered, with nothing of this world. So I am more focused on what I do during my lifetime than what valuation the world places on "things." For me family and friends mean more than "things" and enjoyment of life means much more than simply existing. And after 50 years of walking around this life, I refuse to simply "exist" as I desire to "thrive" and share the joy of shooting and reloading with others with a passion.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to justify what I do, I am explaining the reasons why some of us passionate hobbyists do what we do.

Where's my credit card - I need to order that new PSA 22LR upper - http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...eight-keymod-upper-with-bcg-ch-516446955.html

 

[WVsig]

Avid hunters and 1000 yard benchrest shooters won't consider what they do is "silly" nor countless bullseye and action pistol match shooters who hone their "art" to perfection.

Talk to some tuna fishermen (Not commercial fishermen but sports fishermen) and hear some of their "essential" justification for expensive gear and you will soon agree that such expensive equipment is necessary for their sport and ensuring they come back to harbor instead of being shark bait. Just one of their salt water reel will cost more than a Dillon 550 or LNL AP press. And there are many reasons why a Yamaha 150 HP outboard costs more than $12,000 and you need two of them on your boat. I work with a "sport" fisherman with a 60 foot boat who just returned from a 2 week fishing trip and diesel fuel alone costed him $3500 - Yes, he did catch a lot of tuna but that's for a different thread.

Yet I can't bring myself to justify an upgrade from my humble 21" aluminum fishing boat for a trophy boat or Boston Whaler or even a Mako boat. Why? While I like to fish, I am deathly afraid of being shark bait and will keep trolling around the coastline for Ling cod, Rock cod and Vermillion zipping along in my boat with Berkeley jet drive.

Talk to four wheelers and they will gladly explain why they need to spend $30,000 on a brand new $60,000 4x4 truck to "bullet proof" everything. Our family grew up riding quads and we went through several tow vehicles and toy haulers not to mentions various quads. Of course you can't afford to break down in the middle of nowhere and my wife could easily justify every dollar spent on every upgrade of "her" trucks and quads - absolutely necessary for family fun without the worry of break down. No, we didn't spend $30K on a new $60K truck, more like several thousand dollars on a used truck that costed several thousand more dollars. Cost of toy haulers? That's another story and wife did finally get her new 2016 Ram 4x4 truck with EcoDiesel and Outdoorsman trim with all the goodies yet to be installed for retirement.

I like to cook and can absolutely justify every dollar spent on my outdoor kitchen and various cooking equipment/utensil of several thousand dollars but since we ate home cooked meals instead of dining out, we probably saved tens of thousands of dollars over the decades.

Ultimately for me, shooting and reloading is a hobby that some may consider a passion. My approach to life is that it is short and we will leave it just like we entered, with nothing of this world. So I am more focused on what I do during my lifetime than what valuation the world places on "things." For me family and friends mean more than "things" and enjoyment of life means much more than simply existing. And after 50 years of walking around this life, I refuse to simply "exist" as I desire to "thrive" and share the joy of shooting and reloading with others with a passion.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to justify what I do, I am explaining the reasons why some of us passionate hobbyists do what we do.

Where's my credit card - I need to order that new PSA 22LR upper - http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...eight-keymod-upper-with-bcg-ch-516446955.html

Thank you for taking the time to write such a long post 100% proving my point. Each one of your examples is someone who has a passion or hobby. In each example you illustrate how those who participate in that hobby convince themselves that the money and time that they invest in that hobby are worth it. When asked why they spend what they do they attempt to justify what they have done. It is needed. I have to have it in order to compete.. etc.

My point is that one does not need to justify how they spend their money on their hobbies. I do not need to make up mythical arguments in order to justify what I do. I think it is "silly" to seek public affirmation for your investment in your hobby and passions. That is exactly what many of these type of threads amount to. You seem to have misunderstood what I am saying. I am not saying that the hobby or activity that one spends money on is "silly". What is "silly" is the need get affirmation from strangers on the internet that I am justified in what I want to do because in the end it is just circular reasoning. You are asking a question who already have the personal subjective answer to.

 

[LiveLife]

The main difference between other hobbies and reloading is that most people do not start a hobby to save money while many people start reloading in the hopes of producing ammunition at lower cost than factory ammunition.

While many people start playing golf or fishing to become better golfer and fishermen, many reloaders start out not wanting to reload the best match quality ammunition but rounds that simply work to cycle the slide and make holes on paper.

- Some reloaders after a period of time may become handloaders.
- Some reloaders may never even learn what the term "handloading" means - there is a big difference.
- Some reloaders start out reloading only match grade ammunition.

Above reasons are why we may perpetually get the "component vs factory" and "Is it feasible to reload" threads.

Nobody on golf forums asks, "Can you save money by playing golf?"