compromise on AWB II?

[Ratzinger_p38]

The first AWB seems mild in comparison, as I guy who only collects C&R it wasnt a big deal for me, but I know everyone's AR-15 is just as important as my beloved P-38 is to me.

But this latest bit is an assault on C&R, since from what I can tell, it could BAN further import of 'military type weapons' which would include a number of C&Rs, like the G41, G43, SVT40 among others.

But after seeing in the above thread that the bill had 16 co-sponsers, I am even more worried than I was at first (all my friends down at the gun shop still think this wont fly, as gun control is not as in vogue as it was mid 70s-mid 90s)

What do you guys think about trying to push for a compromise? I know, we shouldnt have to take any, but Id prefer all 'bans' be taken off the table in favor of something more like a limit of 'assault weapons' be made a year, a set number that firms could bid on, or something. (For that matter, I want the NFA weapons laws to be changed to allow 'amnesty' for autos, where a person can go in with his unpapered auto, have it held while he applies for the same legal permit all class III owners go through now - this is what Finland does)

But surely compromises will be made, like the Clinton AWB? m1 Garand and m1 carbine being banned? cmon? thoughts on what compromsies would be likely (where the hell is the protection C&R guns are supposed to have)?

 

[SoCalShooter]

No compromise, they will not stop trying to take them away and we will not stop trying to get them back. There is no middle ground there is no compromise.

I know your new here did not want to come across as an "A HOLE" but we here at THR dont like compromise on this issue.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

hell no.

Its like feeding seagullls. If we give them even the littlest peice of food they will eat it, and call all their freinds over for more.

and most of the time they get fed more.

 

[Thin Black Line]

(all my friends down at the gun shop still think this wont fly, as gun control is not as in vogue as it was mid 70s-mid 90s)

We must've been going to the same gun store where the fat chewers
behind the counter all though the 86 mg ban, the 89 import ban, and the
94 ban weren't going to fly either.

What do you guys think about trying to push for a compromise?

That Sun Tzu was right when he said the outcome of a battle was already
decided before it was fought.

 

[TexasRifleman]

where the hell is the protection C&R guns are supposed to have

What makes you think C&R's get any special protection?

The protection they are afforded is the same as others, Amendment #2 to the US Constitution.

No where else do you see any special protection for C&Rs or anything else.

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

Ok fair enough, but part of my original post was asking what compromises are 'likely' . the first AWB was barely the same bill as originally written (and we see how poorly written this bill is).

Guys I do want to say agree - no compromises should be needed, but from what I read, many of you are too 'doom and gloom' about the issue.

Remember we are all the same side - every AR-15 owner I have ever known has been responsible and not your typical 'gun nut'

 

[Master Blaster]

Here's a compromise for you, I get to keep all of my guns and buy any damn new ones I like including Modern semi autos.

You can go turn in YOUR guns at the nearest police station.:banghead:

No compromise, NONE

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

Master Blaster, once again, what I am asking is WHAT COMPROMISES ARE LIKELY -

By all means, buy at many AK clones and AR 15s as you can. Stock up on class IIIs. None of it should be 'illegal' as bans are a bunch of BS.

Please dont start treating me like I am a mole sent by the Brady clowns.

 

[SoCalShooter]

Re: Ratzinger

Your speculating, we dont speculate any compromises, we accept no compromises at all. I and I know many others who are not willing to compromise and we won't even discuss it. I am not trying to shoot you down or be mean but I think as you can already tell we intend to give no ground on the subject.

 

[kcmarine]

No compromise. Victory only.

 

[The Freeholder]

No compromises. To a gun grabber, a compromise just says "Hey, come back later and I'll give you some more."

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Today's "compromises" are tomorrow's "loopholes".

Compromise is exactly what they want.

Do you really think they think they can get it all at once? One little compromise is a win for them and a disaster for us.

They get your "assault weapon" today, your gas-operated autoloader tomorrow, your manual autoloader the next day, manditory "training" along the way, a hefty tax on ammo from another direction, a trigger lock law and pretty soon it's too much of a pain to shoot at all. Might as well just play video games and obsess over celebrity legal trouble.

[RANT ON - the only reason legal issues are "news" is because they are cheap and easy to track - public record. We also need to demand more of our "news" sources - Fox included - to protect our FIRST Amendment rights. RANT OFF]

Previous compromises:
-Income tax - developed to pay for the Civil War. I'm sure they promised it would go away after the war.
-Withholding tax - developed to pay for WW2. I'm sure they promised it would go away after the war.
-Social Security number? That's only to be used for Social Security, never, ever for identification.
-State Sales tax? We promise to cap it at 1%.
-Bill of Rights "...shall NOT be infringed..."

During the first AWB, many of us had no clue about what was going on. I knew nothing about it and it didn't affect more effective weapons like 30-06 and 12ga, so I really would not have even cared at the time.

During the first AWB. I needed education. There was no talk radio, no internet. The guys in my deer camp saw no need for "banana clips", so why not outlaw those non-USA-made guns?

We now have new assault communication weapons. Now we can descend upon these...[insert your favorite non-high-road epithet here...my latest is "quisling"]...politicians from both sides when they start to "compromise". When I say "both sides", I mean 1. as a constituent AND 2. publicity and public relations (ala Zumbro).

Continue to spread the word ladies and gentlemen. Keyboards have more power than we can imagine. Especially when we take the high road and defend our thinking clearly.

Enough with compromise. Today's "compromises" are tomorrow's "loopholes".

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

I just am not sure how good our chances are anymore of total victory. It has my honestly worried if my collection is going to be in trouble.

I agree with the long post above - this is how it starts -

1. AWB II
2. Gun owner ID cards, much like IL, or perhaps a more tough one like they have in MA where you have to get the police "permission" to own a gun, and have to state a 'reason' (guess I should apply for a free speech card while Im at it huh)
3. "training" (IE - to annoy you so you wont want to bother getting a gun anymore) - thus bringing the ownership of any firearm on the same plane as getting a DL.
4. Some kind of handgun ban, we all know that since they are used in most gun crimes, they are next to be in trouble, esp if one of the CPUSA people (Clinton or Obama) wins.
5. Total gun regisration
6. Shotgun ban (the British path)
7. Permission, also much like the UK, to own disabled guns (IE - useless hunks of steel)
8. Guns are the playthings of only the rich elite so in a sense, the US becomes:

Europe.

I dont like this any more than you guys. If the bill could be watered down to almost nothing (IE restrictions on how many could be built) I might breath a little easier, but it is as you just another step closer.

Funny, until FDR guns were barely as issue at all.

 

[dave_pro2a]

Sure, I'll compromise:

The .gov can take ALL your C&R guns, and all the FUDD guns, but they MUST leave my EBR and "high capacity" mags alone!

Is that what you were looking for Ratzinger_p38?

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

didnt expect to get mobbed here, sorry if I offended everyone (which I seem to)

 

[longeyes]

It's a bit early for a compromise, isn't it?

In fact, it's ALWAYS too early when your basic liberties are at stake.

No damn way.

 

[44Brent]

Please dont start treating me like I am a mole sent by the Brady clowns.

Just like Nixon proclaimed "I am not a crook".

 

[SoCalShooter]

RE: Ratzinger

I think we all have an excellent idea of what you were trying to propose. But as you can tell things get heated very quickly over the word "compromise". We dont like it, we dont do it and we have good reasons.

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

44Brent, do I have to swear a blood oath to the forum?

I guess I wont ever ask 'what if' questions again.

 

[Prince Yamato]

All a compromise says is, "Yes, owning an AK is morally wrong, but thank you for letting me keep mine oh gracious overlords. Now please, stop this evil of arms proliferation..."

 

[Dave Workman]

Compromise?

Lemme see, Ratzinger, if I have this correct. You did ask a legitimate question, as I am certain there are people out there right now thinking about this.

IIRC, wasn't it the feeling on the part of thousands of people that a guy named Jim Zumbo represented "compromise?" Give up black guns in favor of traditional hunting gunss?

(He never really said that, of course. He only ssuggested originally that EBRs might be banned for hunting, but you know how internet messages grow their own legs )

Zumbo has "come to Jeezuhsss!" and there is no room for "compromise."

We've been "compromised" enough. What did it get us?

The setback for gun banners came Friday from the DC Court of Appeals. The fact that the MSM isn't speaking about it all that much, and the anti-gunners are howling about kids and blood in the streets leads me to conclude this was a real nut-buster.

McCarthy has ONLY 16 co-sponsors. In a 435 member House, that's pretty poor.

 

[dave_pro2a]

Quote Ratzinger_p38: "where the hell is the protection C&R guns are supposed to have?"

Here's your problem Ratzinger_p38, you think that the gun grabbers will respect/protect the kind of gun YOU like, because after all YOUR expression of the hobby (and YOUR understanding of the RKBA) is "reasonable."

To the brady bunch gun-grabbers NO gun is to be protected, and NO private hobby use of firearms is reasonable and there is no private RKBA.

You have fundamentally unrealistic expectations.

 

[G36-UK]

How's this for a compromise?

The bill changed to be the same as the 1994 bill, including the 10-year sunset.

Complete exemption for pistols.

Complete and unconditional repeal of the Hughes Amendment to the 1986 FOPA, which (like moving certain shotguns to the NFA) does not sunset with the rest of the bill.

Brady Campaign to be BANNED as a "terrorist" organisation.

 

[Titan6]

I smell a Ratzinger

- Twweeeeet!

- Piling on!

- 10 yard penalty!

Seriously though guy did you really think that anyone here would find that a good idea? Any ban is still a ban, who here would support that? The Ruggers? David Petzal? Go sell that somewhere else.

 

[geekWithA.45]

The "AWB"s are about one thing, and one thing only: The right of the American citizen to keep and bear militarily credible arms.

Period, full stop.

That, my friends, is not up for grabs.

Never again.