Concealed carriers can be the worst people.

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

Nice, projection, metallic.


What we have here is a large group of people ignoring an important story involving what not to do if confronted with a belligerent fellow CCWer.


I mean, at least be honest with yourselves, there is something to learn here, but everyone's so offended about being called "the worst people" that they're jumping on a "bash the OP" bandwagon.

 

[rainbowbob]

I mean, at least be honest with yourselves, there is something to learn here, but everyone's so offended about being called "the worst people" that they're jumping on a "bash the OP" bandwagon.

I'm always ready to learn something, which is why I frequent this forum.

I could not care less if someone lumps me in a group of "the worst people".

In fact, I could not care less if someone calls me me names or otherwise disparages me personally to my face. My self-esteem just isn't that fragile.

So tell us...

What is the "important story" - and what lesson is there to be learned?

I'm not interested in bashing the OP. It's just that I believe he grossly over-reacted to another man eye-balling his chick, and made assumptions about the other's evil intent based on a firearm he never saw.

As metallic wrote: A non-story - EXCEPT - I think the OP could learn something from many of the responses if he is willing to open his mind and consider that HIS reaction and behavior was out of line in the "incident" described.

 

[texas bulldog]

why should we assume it's the same person? the OP hasn't said as much.

 

[meef]

This is what five pages of thread have boiled down to:

A bunch of people feeling butthurt because they feel they've been grouped into a group such as "the worstpeople"

Butthurt?

You crack me up. Honest, you do.

Aside from that, you miss the point.

 

[Bluenote]

Quit looking at everyone's pockets and below their waists. That is just CREEPY!
As far as I read, the OP has placed himself in the "Concealed carriers can be the worst people" category with his behavior toward a perfect stranger who passed by him and happened to look at a (hopefully) pretty girl.
I guess playing music in bars for the past three decades has made me somewhat immune to guys "checking out my lady". She's a grown woman and takes care of herself when I am playing and she is in the club.
Frankly, my wife would be ticked off if no one checked her out...most women would be (whether they care to admit it or not). Women do not get all dressed up to NOT be noticed....Duh.
The fashion industry would shut down if women didn't want to be looked at and "checked out" ........ Men as well!

Gotta agree with the above , at times I've tended bar for a living ,in Houston I was going with a girl that was a Houston Oilers cheerleader ( yeah yeah I just marked myself as old fart now) , it was relatively speaking hilarious watching the guys checking her out when she came into the bar to see me , and my attitude was along of the lines of " drool all you want , but she's going home with ME " (chuckle chuckle).

As far as the O.P. goes , perhaps responses *were* a bit harsh , but then he *did* title the thread with a heading that could be contrued to be controversial , and perhaps just perhaps he should examine his own insecurities as regards his girlfriend.

Folks are going to look , and I can tell you from long experience working in clubs it's not just the guys looking , women look too. And I'd infinitely rather have to break up a row between two 300 lb men than have to attempt to break up one between two 100 lb women because one looked at anothers 'boyfriend' , those damn fingernails can hurt ,don't ask how I know that one.

And it really sounds like it was all just the proverbial tempest in a teapot between the equivalent of two banty roosters anyway.

 

[Bluenote]

Wildcat McCane, I don't think you have any idea what you're doing! You haven't got a clue what's going on!

Now, if those comments got your hackles up right away I think it will make my point.

I also had no idea, no clue, what I was doing. A girl made a comment to me, "Why did you stare at them like that?" Huh? I didn't think I was staring. A little later, "See, you did it again!" I thought, man, this girl's getting weird here.

Then I began to watch 'me'. Wow, she was right! Several times before I'd had encounters with guys that I didn't expect, like them getting aggressive. How come? Because of ME! I was staring at them and plenty of people take that as aggressive behavior, a challenge, "You looking at me, punk!??"

You stated that you STARED at them for 20 seconds, a third of a minute, and then turned and stared at them as they walked away, after passing you. Hey, guess what? That's pretty aggressive, especially in the bars I used to hang in. And in the bars I went to guys didn't spend their time looking at other guys below the belt, reason enough right there to get your teeth punched in! That crotch eyeballing wasn't included in the 20 seconds, because the 20 seconds were spent watching their eyes closely.

So, these guys are leaving a bar and some guy comes up giving them the stare down, spends 1/2 a minute watching them intently, and then he's checking out their crotches, plus turning to watch them as they walk away. And you're surprised they didn't like that much, and maybe thought you were a potential problem? Or a little perverted?

You seem to have a confrontational state of mind and also regularly engage in confrontational behavior. In other words you challenge people continually, whether you know it or not. I know I did, but only after it was pointed out to me.

I changed my ways, like others here have suggested. Now everywhere I go, everyone I meet or pass, I try to give a nod, or a friendly smile, or 'Hi' or 'How ya doin'?' or whatever. Downright amazing how many nice people there are out there, who smile back and say hi. Haven't had to shoot anybody all week and it's Tuesday already.

Like others said, you maybe need to take a close look at your own mind set before you go and shove a pistol in your pocket. A hair trigger temper isn't allowed for those that carry....

An yet another plus a thousand post in a thread based on a semi-ridiculous encounter.

To quote a really stupid movie........." Be nice , then BE NICE again , and then be nice after that ,until the time actually comes to NOT be nice."


The moral of that saying being that if you do the above your opponent is most always unready for that change should it become necessary.

And within the context of interaction with fellow humans it costs you nothing to brighten someones day , the guy walking down the street glowering , may just have his horrible day/mood/whatever made a little better if you just say " Howdy , hope you're well today."

One of the most overused cliches on the face of the earth is also one of the most pertinent bits of truth to ever come down the proverbial pike , that being.

Ya catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.


Not that i always do it , being the curmudgeonly old cynic that I am. Bit it IS the truth.

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

So tell us...

What is the "important story" - and what lesson is there to be learned?

I'm not interested in bashing the OP. It's just that I believe he grossly over-reacted to another man eye-balling his chick, and made assumptions about the other's evil intent based on a firearm he never saw.

As metallic wrote: A non-story - EXCEPT - I think the OP could learn something from many of the responses if he is willing to open his mind and consider that HIS reaction and behavior was out of line in the "incident" described.

The lesson is this:

Be curteous to everyone, because some CCW having moron with a chip on his shoulder could pull his gun on you if you look at him the wrong way.

 

[X-Rap]

Why is there some assumption that the guy in question has a CCW or is even packing a gun?
I guess that I am one that believes we should not need some paper from the gov. to carry and defend ourselves anyway.
We will encounter a holes no matter what or where, the fact they have permits for something is irrelevant. I also believe self examination might show that we need to tone our own actions down when we carry a weapon.

 

[rainbowbob]

The lesson is this:

Be curteous to everyone, because some CCW having moron with a chip on his shoulder could pull his gun on you if you look at him the wrong way.

Well...that's fine advice, David. I just don't know how you derived that "lesson" from this "important" non-story in which a gun never appeared.

I would add that you should be courteous to everyone because it's the right thing to do, and because you might get punched in the face for giving someone the stink-eye or otherwise disrespecting them. If you're CCW, and you provoke someone to punch you, you could have a real problem if you escalate from there with a firearm.

But again...these lessons are not evident in the story or subsequent posts from the OP.

 

[justashooter in pa]

hey wild cat,

so you're 25 and have a hot girlfriend. marry her now.

i'm one of those 45 year old guys who carries a gun into bars. i have a 27 year old asian wife that goes 105 pounds and has a porno rack and likes to show it off. she gets looked at all the time. i deliberately never notice other guys looking at her, and never comment when the hit on her. she dances with me and goes home with me, and that's all that matters.

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

Well...that's fine advice, David. I just don't know how you derived that "lesson" from this "important" non-story in which a gun never appeared.

I would add that you should be courteous to everyone because it's the right thing to do, and because you might get punched in the face for giving someone the stink-eye or otherwise disrespecting them. If you're CCW, and you provoke someone to punch you, you could have a real problem if you escalate from there with a firearm.

But again...these lessons are not evident in the story or subsequent posts from the OP.

I used that chunk of grey stuff between my ears to come to that conclusion, rainbowbob.

Story isn't about ccw having person vs. non ccw having person, rainbowbob.

It's about average ccw having person vs. belligerent ccw having person, rainbowbob.


It's an entirely different dynamic, rainbowbob.


The fact is that someone displayed what the OP perceived to be aggressive behavior (in any other thread, the two guys would've been "casing" the couple.)

OP should have stopped sharing macho stares with the guy at this point.

The other guy then suddenly reached into his pocket (in any other thread, this would have been declared " ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG Code Orange! reaching for a knife / weapon"

All of the people whining and crying troll should go to the "It happened to me" thread. There's a ton of stories in there that makes the OP ofthis thread look like a hero.

 

[rainbowbob]

...someone displayed what the OP perceived to be aggressive behavior...

Just because the OP "perceived" something, doesn't make it real.

The other guy then suddenly reached into his pocket (in any other thread, this would have been declared..."Code Orange"!

This might be construed as defensive behavior. But - as you say - that's an "entirely different dynamic".

OP should have stopped sharing macho stares with the guy at this point.

I certainly agree with you on that point, David.

I'll go you one further and reiterate that the OP shouldn't have been trading macho stares in the first place.

By-the-way...I boldface the username of the person who's comments I am addressing so that they will more likely see it and respond - as you did.

Thanks for playing.

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

I'll grant you that, bob; the OP's perception is a unique thing


I gathered that, I was just trying to make a small joke (hence smiley face.)


I also agree...

I think it's fair to say that both sides of the coin are a llittle right in this case.


The OP could've avoided both theoretical situations, one with no consequences, and one with deadly consequences, if he'd just kept a cool head and minded his own business

 

[wild cat mccane]

I am curious.

Since everyone has said it is impossible that I knew it was a gun...

Does anyone here have situations where they have marked a concealed?

SO why is that even being quesitoned?

he was wearing light levis. Light is the worst for printing.

They were tight. Worst for printing.

I really am amazed that it is so hard to believe that we all couldn't make out an outline of an auto...

 

[rainbowbob]

mccane:

It is possible (perhaps even likely) that your perception of what you thought was a gun was an accurate one.

The point is that regardless of whether or not you were certain he had a gun in his pocket - it was never drawn or otherwise used offensively.

He may have been reacting defensively in preparation for what he perceived as threatening behavior from you.

You see how perceptions are in the eye of the beholder?

Had you not over-reacted to his non-threatening (although perhaps rude) behavior in the first place, this would even be less of a story than it is (if that is possible).

As far as I can see the only lesson to be learned here is the one that has been offered repeatedly:

Don't engage in behavior that may be perceived by others as threatening, challenging, or disrespectful.

Both parties to this incident are guilty of one or the other of those transgressions. We're criticizing you because you posted the story, and you are at least 50% to blame for the confrontation.

Let's imagine for a moment that the other guy had posted a story about how he was ogling a beautiful chick in a bar, and her boyfriend stopped and stared at him threateningly, so he put his hand on his pocket pistol just in case the boyfriend made a move to attack him.

We'd be criticizing him for rude behavior and telling him that if he's going to CCW, he needs to be more respectful and circumspect in his behavior.

You have to be more patient, more forgiving, and slower to take offense than most every one else if you are going to take on the responsibility of CCW.

As soon as you acknowledge that concept, we can put this thread to bed.

 

[Autolycus]

Why would we get all up in arms when the polcie stop people from open carrying? They don't know if they are law abiding or not, but we assume that these guys are not? I am sorry but the OP was right to be nervous.

 

[meef]

Why would we get all up in arms when the polcie stop people from open carrying? They don't know if they are law abiding or not, but we assume that these guys are not? I am sorry but the OP was right to be nervous.

Huh?

 

[wild cat mccane]

He pointed out that there is inconstancy in the people attacking me.

1. people got mad at my title

2. they attacked me because of the title and assumed I shouldn't be angry that I clearly saw a gun grab his gun while stopping and looking at me.

I said I was unarmed. So his gripping a pistol is not justified. A legally defined 'reasonable person' should not be threatened of life and limb by a young guy with 3 girls near him...WHO WAS UNARMED. he was armed. it was obvious. Though not obvious, I was not.

 

[EdLaver]

I have to somewhat agree with the OP, I remember when I took my CCW class there were 17 people and IMO it looked like only 5 of us were mature, intelligent, and responsible enough to be getting a license to carry a firearm. But I guess you cant descriminate, b/c if so, alot of people wouldnt have driver's licenses either. LOL

 

[rainbowbob]

mccane:

1. I didn't get mad at your title. I sincerely don't care about derogatory epithets that don't apply to me. I don't even give a north-bound rat's south end if someone calls me a derogatory name to my face. My self esteem is not based on the opinions of strangers.

2. I didn't attack you (and neither did the guy in your story). I merely pointed out that your behavior was a contributing factor in a "confrontation" in which no firearm was drawn, there was no violence of any kind, and no verbal threats were exchanged.

You say because you were unarmed, there was no justification for him to prepare for a possible assault from you. Even though by your own description, you were looking at him with the intention of intimidating him to change his behavior.

You further assert that a "reasonable person" need not feel threatened by a young guy who was unarmed.

How does he know you aren't armed?

How does he know you aren't about to deliver a potentially fatal sucker punch to the head?

A "reasonable person" would likely conclude an "unarmed" man was justifiably shot if he wrongfully assaulted the shooter with his fists, boots, etc.

I have been in the position where a belligerent young guy was challenging me verbally while coming directly at me.

I had no idea if he was armed - and didn't care. He presented a potentially lethal threat regardless.

Be assured that my body was bladed, my left hand was up, and my right hand was on my pocket pistol. He never saw the firearm - but I think he got the idea.

You should learn that you can't change the behavior of anyone but yourself.

You CAN make the choice - as I did after the incident I just described - to refrain from correcting the rude behavior of others in public.

I will attempt one more time to convince you that your behavior (as described by you) was meant to be intimidating. You were successful. The fellow apparently felt intimidated enough to put his hand on his gun in case you took your intimidating behavior to another level.

So no - you should NOT be angry that he did what most folks would do if they felt they were at risk of a possible assault.

Learn it here - or perhaps learn it on the streets the hard way.

It's up to you.

 

[gglass]

RainbowBob,

+ 1,000,000,000 For a lifetime of mature advice given in a few short paragraphs. If only the OP were mature enough to listen.

 

[Snakum]

Personally, I am proud when I have a girl that every guy wants to "eye-ball".

+1

I don't pull into restaraunts where there are no other cars. And I don't travel with women that other guys don't care to look at. You should be proud - as long as he is only looking.

If you eye-f@#$&* a guy hard enough that almost pulled on you, just for looking at your woman, you may want to take a long hard look at yourself. You may need to grow up a tad.

 

[101]

The person that started this post also seems to stare at people alot with a dirty look. No wonder they drew their guns! I would get pissed if someone was giving me the look.

 

[SwampWolf]

I'd recommend people reread rainbowbob and Armed Bear's takes on the op's "problem". He made his own "problem" with a juvenile "stare", apparently intended to give the guy eyeballing his babe a message-"Hands (eyes) off! She's my property." It's clear to me that the op should not be carrying a weapon until he grows up a little.

 

[metallic]

Can't really say that I disagree with anything that rainbowbob has said in this thread. If you carry a weapon, you owe it to yourself to check your ego at the door when you leave in the morning. This applies if you are carrying that day or not.