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Concealed Carry in PA?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by exoduster18, Dec 28, 2005.

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  1. exoduster18

    exoduster18 Member

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    I've read all the info on PA that Packing.org provides and that damn legalese has me confused. So my question is this: Can I, at age 18, legally carry concealed here in PA? Or do I have to be 21?

    I'm confused because it looks like I can at age 18, but then it seems to contradict itself in saying that I have to be 21. I'm confoosed.....

    Thanks for the replies.
     
  2. Brian Williams

    Brian Williams Moderator Emeritus

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    You can get a handgun Hunting carry permit at 18 but to carry for Self Defense you need to be 21.

    I just got my reminder to get mine renewed $25 for 5 years.
     
  3. exoduster18

    exoduster18 Member

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    So I can carry in the woods but not on the street? ***?!:cuss: I can carry concealed in the woods but in the areas where crimes against people are being committed, I have to be 21? What more do I learn about gun handling/safety and being proactive in my own defense in the three years? Or is this just to make sure that I become a really good shot if need be in the public by practicing while hunting?:D :what: :neener:
     
  4. exoduster18

    exoduster18 Member

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    Oh and thanks for the info too.
     
  5. goon

    goon Member

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    In principle I agree. But it is what it is. When you turn 21 you will have no trouble getting a CCW permit. PA is a gun friendly state.
     
  6. FallenAngel

    FallenAngel Member

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    PA is very gun friendly. PA has some of the least restrictive gun laws, specifically on where you can/cannot carry.

    As for the 21 thing, yeah it sucks, but then again any laws limiting our 2nd admendment suck.
     
  7. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    Yes indeed, 21 ... for SD.

    But be glad that PA is very shall issue. My own county is good - no delays - in and out 20-30 minutes. Some seem to do it slower - like mail it to you in a week. But compared with many - it is good.

    I do tho recommend when time comes - do at least a Basic Pistol course from NRA and then Personal Protection - it is good to carry with some semblance of initial training - after which much more should follow.

    Patience - sad to say - only way to go.
     
  8. exoduster18

    exoduster18 Member

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    I love living in PA. I just wish I could carry concealed at age 18 instead of 21.

    I also know that it is also a very gun friendly state. Of course, then again nothing is as bad Kalifornistan. I love living in PA.

    Thanks!!
     
  9. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    Get your sportsman's firearm permit. Use it to apply for a nonresident NH permit. Start packing.

    That's what I did.

    edit: Packing as in carrying. Not packing as in moving to NH or something.
     
  10. exoduster18

    exoduster18 Member

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    So let me get this straight: I can get my sportsmen hunting permit here in PA and use it to get a nonresident CCW for NH? And I'm assuming NH's CCW is honored here in PA?

    How does me getting a nonresident for NH get honored here in PA? This is all to confusing......clarifications please!! :)

    There is nothing illegal about this?

    One more question: Do I have to have the sportsmen hunting permit for PA first? And if so, in order to get a sportsmen hunting permit in PA, do I have to own a pistol, or just use one while hunting?
     
  11. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    PA will honor an NH permit, resident or non-resident, as though it were a PA permit. NH has no age requirements for a CCW permit, but has the same law as PA, that you must be 18 to possess a handgun without adult supervision.

    The PA Sportsman's firearm permit should be accepted by the NH police as a license to carry with restrictions, for the purpose of getting an NH CCW. You must have a prior CCW, with or without restrictions, before NH will issue a nonresident one. They accepted my Sportsman's permit, so it should be good enough for you as well. This way people in, say, New York can get an NH permit even if all they have for their home state is a "hunting only" license. In theory, anyway. From what I've heard, the NH state police will sometimes turn down applications from people in NY that were made with a hunting only CCW.

    To get a PA Sportsman's firearm permit, you must be 18 or older, and you must have a valid hunting, fishing, furtrapping, or dog training license. Fishing is the easiest to get (no hunter safety course), though I believe it costs $5 more than a hunting license. The PA Sportsman's permit allows you to carry a concealed handgun while hunting, fishing, furtrapping, or training dogs, provided that you also have a valid license to do one of those. The license is intended mostly to let you carry a sidearm in case of bears or coyotes, and keep it concealed so you don't scare people.

    Oh, the reason why it's called a Sportsman's "firearm" permit is because PA state law defines a "firearm" as: Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length of less than 15 inches, any rifle with a barrel length of less than 16", any shotgun with a barrel length of under 18", and any pistol, revolver, rifle, or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26". So every handgun I know of is a "firearm." If you know of a model of pistol which is 26" or longer, I'd like to see it.
     
  12. exoduster18

    exoduster18 Member

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    RyanM - Thanks for the clarification. I think that is what I'm going to do then. If it's legal and I can't get into any trouble (I don't particulary care for lawyers, unless they are on my side or they are pro-gun (cough *LawDog* cough)

    Thanks again for the info. All I can say is sweet!!
     
  13. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    Well, whether you get into trouble depends on the area. But with an NH permit, you can be relatively certain that you wouldn't stay in trouble (unless you're in Philly, but not even a PA CCW will keep you from being thrown in jail for packing, there). In other words, it's kind of like open carry. Open carry on foot is 100% legal at age 18 and up, but you may be arrested anyway (or maced, or tackled, or tased). But you wouldn't stay arrested for very long, since it's not actually illegal.

    Just avoid doing anything suspicious, don't act like a punk if you ever have to talk to the police, and if it looks like you're going to be arrested anyway, do everything the officer says. If they go over the line, do everything they say anyway, and sue them later. But all the police around here I know are nice guys, and would probably just go "huh, I didn't know that, I guess it's fine then," if you had a printout of the reciprocity laws, or something.
     
  14. exoduster18

    exoduster18 Member

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    Is this really legal? I'm all set to do it. I'm from McKean County and I don't think that I would have a problem there with it. I just don't need to be paying fines or anything of the alike as I am in college and always strapped for cash. That is unless it comes to me self defense, then price is no objection. I just want to know if I should expect trouble to come my way or not.

    And what would I be arrested for? For doing this? Or are you implying something along the lines of robbing a bank or stealing a car?

    I just want to know all of the facts before I commit to it.
     
  15. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA Member

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    Huh?? :confused:

    Carrying in Philly is perfectly legal with a PA CCW.
     
  16. Brian Williams

    Brian Williams Moderator Emeritus

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    A Pennsylvania Sportsmans permit is not a Concealed carry permit it is an open carry permit for only while in the woods while hunting for game that is in season and can be taken by handgun or while running a trap line.


    RyanM I am not sure you would win if you are found carrying with that NH permit because a sportsmans permit does not allow concealed carry
     
  17. exoduster18

    exoduster18 Member

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    Brian - I understand that the Sportsmen Hunting Permit is for use with what Pennsylvania declares is a handgun for hunting. This is where I get confused. NH states that I have to have a permit from my state to get their's. But the Sportsmen Hunting Permit isn't CCW. So how would this work and still be legal? It seems to me that if I got caught going through this process, well, it wouldn't be a pleasant experience. I really enjoy shooting and guns in general and I don't want to lose that just because someone says I can go through this process.

    I may not be clearly defined in law. But it just sounds a little to suspicous and a little to many loops to jump through in order to get it. Simply put: it doesn't sound entirely legal.

    Thanks for the replies but I think I'll just wait till I'm 21.
     
  18. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    Something along the lines of "possession of a firearm while young." Then you'd be kicked out of jail a short time later after someone opens a law book.

    Legal according to state law. But according to the horror stories I've heard, the Philly DA and PD pretty much make up their own laws, and will fabricate charges to keep you in jail, if you're found to be in possession of a firearm. Though the recent case where someone shot a mugger may have proved that wrong.

    § 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
    (a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

    (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:

    9. Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers or fishing or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers or fish or returning from such places.
    10. Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually training dogs during the regular training season.

    c) Sportsman's firearm permit.--

    1. Before any exception shall be granted under paragraph (b)(9) or (10) of this section to any person 18 years of age or older licensed to hunt, trap or fish or who has been issued a permit relating to hunting dogs, such person shall, at the time of securing his hunting, furtaking or fishing license or any time after such license has been issued, secure a sportsman's firearm permit from the county treasurer.

    --------

    Whether that license allows concealed carry is irrelevant anyway. The NH license does allow concealed carry while in NH, and any states (such as PA) which will honor a nonresident NH permit. If the NH state law were changed to be crazy, you could get an NH permit with a gum wrapper. The fact that a gum wrapper won't let you carry concealed is irrelevant, as long as it gets you the NH permit. Better example. If you live in VT, you can get an NH permit if you get your county sherriff to write a letter to the NH state police. A letter from a VT sherriff won't let you carry concealed anywhere, but it's still good enough to get an NH permit, and that permit is still good enough to let you carry concealed in NH, PA, NC, etc.

    In any case, a Sportsman's permit was good enough to get me an NH CCW.
     
  19. PaladinVC

    PaladinVC Member

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    While we're on the topic, what is the authority of a business owner to restrict firearms possession on the grounds of his business? For instance, there's a "No Firearms" sign on the door of the dollar movie theater in Erie. If a licensed individual is discovered to be carrying concealed there (unlikely, but assume it happens), are there legal ramifications, or do you just get kicked out?
     
  20. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    I have not put that to the test here - not yet seen a notice anywhere in my general area.

    Unless tho IIRC the notice has any true legal status, it is only possible for the establishment to ask you to leave - and if you do not then you commit a trespass.

    This is what seems the case in many states - maybe an LEO here could comment on that.
     
  21. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    In PA, the only places where CCW with a license is not legal are courthouses (courtrooms, judge's chambers, and DA's office only, in two counties), correctional facilities, post offices, state parks, any other federal or state property, and I think that's it.

    A "no firearms" sign on a movie theater has no more legal weight than a "don't bring your own food into the theater" sign. You could be kicked out for either though, and you could be charged with defiant trespassing if you don't leave when asked.

    You may spend a couple hours in jail if caught with a gun, though. It depends on what the reaction to the "man with a gun" 911 call is. The ideal response from the dispatcher would be "has he shot anyone? Has he threatened anyone? Is he brandishing it? Are you some kind of moron? I'm sending the police to arrest you for disturbing the peace."
     
  22. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    My understanding could be faulty, but I'm under the impression that the sportsmen's license is a leftover that predates shall issue reforms.

    None the less, it was left on the books, probably so as not to invalidate permits that existed at the time.

    I never heard of anybody who actually had one.
     
  23. exoduster18

    exoduster18 Member

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    Ok then, this is entirely legal? If I were to get caught, I may be thrown in the slammer and then if they (the arresting officials) actually look into the laws, I would be set free without any sort of charges brought against me?
     
  24. Brian Williams

    Brian Williams Moderator Emeritus

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    RyanM is saying it is legal, but I will disagree with him and say he obtained his New Hampshire permit under false pretenses, the Sportsmans permit is not a concealed carry permit and it will only allow an 18 to 21 year old the ability to open carry while going to and from and while hunting.
     
  25. Kurt_M

    Kurt_M Member

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    I'll have to side with Brian here. The NH permit may be a legal loophole, but I wouldn't want to be the test case. If you really want to try it, I suggest writing to the AG for a legal determination before you shell out the money and start carrying. His decision is the only one that truly matters as far as the legality of the thing goes. I hope it does work out for you, I sure wish I could have gotten my permit at 18.
     
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