Concealed carry in southern Illinois county voted down

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Soybomb

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County says no to concealed carry law
By Joseph Witthaus
Centralia Sentinel

Carlyle - The question of whether or not concealed carry legislation should be placed on the November ballot in Clinton County was discussed for several minutes by the Clinton County Board Monday evening.

In an 8 to 3 vote, with one member abstaining and two members absent, the board elected not to place the question of whether the General Assembly should enact legislation to allow for the carrying of concealed firearms before the voters at the General Election to be held on Nov. 4.

A number of trustees and county officials also expressed their opinions on the matter prior to the vote.

Board Trustee Robert Fix stated that, as a police officer, he was not 100 percent certain in regard to his feelings about the proposed legislation. Trustee Jim Sullivan seconded Fix's position by information the board that his former occupation as a police officer also caused him to have mixed feelings.

"I can't see the use for firearms on anyone," said Sullivan explaining that policemen follow all required firearms training prior to being issued a firearm.

Trustee Don Murray state that if the average citizen could carry a concealed weapon, then the possibility of criminals obtaining firearms could be ever greater, even with the implementation of required background checks for all citizens who apply for a gun license. Murray also asked that Clinton County Sheriff Mike Kreke weigh in on the situation, considering his position with the county.

According to Kreke, the legislation, as presented to the board, does not contain enough specific information in regard to the subject other than being able to carry a concealed firearms. "There's just not enough there," he stated. "The way it's presented now, you just get to carry weapons."

In defense of the proposed legislation, board Chairman Ray Kloeckner expressed to the board that it made no difference whether the legislative question was placed on the ballot or not. Other various members of the board in support of the legislation also informed the board that the question would simply be placed on the ballot to gain a sense of county residents' opinions on the matter and would not be automatically enacted.

County Clerk Tom LaCaze, while unable to vote on the issue due to his elected position in the county, supported the proposed legislation by openly expressing his approval of firearms.

"We should be able to carry guns," he stated simply to those in attendance, defending that firearms are often needed for proper protection in today's society. LaCaze also cited the extensive training that police often have to through to earn the right to defend themselves, and that the average citizen has the right to defend themselves as well.

*snip*
 
Remind me to never go there... I always try to avoid places with severely restrictive gun laws. They tend to be the most dangerous places in the country... go figure.
 
Dude I feel your pain. Maybe I'm just to simple minded, and I'm sure someone will point that out before this Thread is over, but how can anyone mis-interpet the 2A. Is it up for interertation, didn't our fore fathers agree with a signature that this should be law.
I mean if our fore fathers had known when they wrote the 2A, that sometime in the future all there hard work to unite this Country under a common set of rules / laws were in vain, they could have just gone fishing!
 
Remind me to never go there... I always try to avoid places with severely restrictive gun laws. They tend to be the most dangerous places in the country... go figure.

I'd bet you that Salt Lake City is much more dangerous then Clinton County, IL. What do you want to bet?

Jeff
 
I'd bet you that Salt Lake City is much more dangerous then Clinton County, IL. What do you want to bet?
And thats the problem I face as I sit here deciding if I should write a letter to the editor or not. I can cite statistics for safety of concealed carry all day, but if people don't feel like there is a safety problem where they live to begin with, will it help the cause at all or even potentially harm the pro-2a cause?
 
Trustee Don Murray state that if the average citizen could carry a concealed weapon, then the possibility of criminals obtaining firearms could be ever greater...


:banghead: Is there a criminal anywhere in the USA that can't already get a firearm if they have a few bucks to buy or rent one off the street?
 
I'd bet you that Salt Lake City is much more dangerous then Clinton County, IL. What do you want to bet?

Jeff

Salt Lake City proper? No. West Valley City*? Yes.

*Suburb of SLC.
 
And thats the problem I face as I sit here deciding if I should write a letter to the editor or not. I can cite statistics for safety of concealed carry all day, but if people don't feel like there is a safety problem where they live to begin with, will it help the cause at all or even potentially harm the pro-2a cause?

Soybomb,
I don't think we're going to sell concealed carry around here by the argument that it will make everyone safer. There just isn't any street crime to speak of. Even in the ville in Centralia, they prey on each other over heroin and crack but that's in Marion County. I don't think there really is a bad area in all of Clinton County.

I'd suggest that we use the abused spouse not being permitted the means to defend herself argument. There is plenty of domestic violence, it's something most people are aware of.

Jeff
 
I want to express my disappointment at the overall vote the Clinton County Board on the concealed carry issue. Currently 48 states allow their citizens to carry concealed weapons, Illinois and Wisconsin being the only two states that allow no provisions for concealed carry. Illinois and Wisconsin both need to catch up to other states that recognize the need and right of their citizens to defend themselves. There is no need to resort to speculation of the outcome of such legislation as Mr. Fix and Mr. Sullivan do, we can look at what actually happens in states that already allow it.

One of the most notable is Florida, a state that has been issuing licenses to carry weapons since 1987 and has issued over 1.3 million licenses in that time. During that time period the state has revoked 165 licenses due to firearms crimes by the license holder, a mere .01% Other states that issue permits report similar numbers. I would urge those that have safety concerns for concealed carry to investigate the real world outcome and not just guess.

Those of us in this area are lucky enough to enjoy a safe place to live and a low crime rate. Crime and violence do still exist however. Domestic violence is a serious problem in our area. Shouldn’t battered spouses be afforded the ability to protect themselves both in their home and outside of it? We sometimes call police officers like Mr. Sullivan because we need the “man with a gun” to keep us safe, but the officer is still minutes away when he is needed immediately. Domestic violence victims are in danger even out of the home and they need to be able to protect themselves while in public.

This vote would also serve to send an important message to legislators in Springfield. Rural areas like Clinton County often find themselves fighting northern Illinois legislator’s efforts to impose Chicago and Cook County style gun control laws on the rest of the state. This year 83 Illinois counties have passed a pro Second Amendment resolution to show that they disagree with the barrage of gun control laws that are introduced every year. A vote on concealed carry is another way to show that the rest of Illinois recognizes the need of the citizens of Illinois to be able to protect themselves and their families. It is a shame that Illinois residents with an out of state concealed carry license can carry a weapon for protection while on a weekend trip in Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, or Missouri but their own home state could charge them with a felony for doing it here.

Hopefully in the future the Clinton County Board will re-examine the issue looking for facts and evidence instead of just speculating.
Commentary is welcome, there's a fine line between idealism and looking like a nut to the local farmers :D
 
I don't think we're going to sell concealed carry around here by the argument that it will make everyone safer. There just isn't any street crime to speak of. Even in the ville in Centralia, they prey on each other over heroin and crack but that's in Marion County. I don't think there really is a bad area in all of Clinton County.

I'd suggest that we use the abused spouse not being permitted the means to defend herself argument. There is plenty of domestic violence, it's something most people are aware of.
Why not use the argument that CCW prohibition is not a reasonable restriction?

More than 4 million carry permits have been issued in locales outside of Clinton County.

Those permits have met the reasonable test already...
 
LaCaze also cited the extensive training that police often have to through to earn the right to defend themselves

They ought to take a good hard look at what that "police officer training" actually entails. Nationally, it is hardly extensive and barely adequate.
 
I'd bet you that Salt Lake City is much more dangerous then Clinton County, IL. What do you want to bet?

So what? I can carry concealed in Salt Lake City. I cannot in Clinton County. I don't care if Clinton County was made of Nerf and every resident was coated in downey soft fur and drove pillow covered cars and were under powerful, mind numbing narcotics...

The issue is, they are taking away a right to self defense, capriciously... I love how the two "cops" conveniently forget that the reason they carry guns is to protect themselves... but that's not a good enough reason for the mere serfs in the county.
 
Board Trustee Robert Fix stated that, as a police officer, he was not 100 percent certain in regard to his feelings about the proposed legislation. Trustee Jim Sullivan seconded Fix's position by information the board that his former occupation as a police officer also caused him to have mixed feelings.
For those of you on this forum that continue to wonder why so many of your fellow forumites (and pro RKBA people in general) reflexively distrust (if not outright despise) those in law enforcement THIS IS WHY.

Even if these two chuckleheads only represent 10% of all Illinois law enforcement and even though our own Jeff White cancels one of them out (being a pro-gun ILL LEO) its still no wonder that most of us just can't trust the police when it comes to RKBA.
 
Domestic violence victims are in danger even out of the home and they need to be able to protect themselves while in public.

Good job, Soybomb. Be prepared somehow to counter the arguments that will be raised on the above point. They will undoubtedly drag out the old crap about a woman being more likely to be killed be her own gun...blah, blah, blah.
 
They ought to take a good hard look at what that "police officer training" actually entails. Nationally, it is hardly extensive and barely adequate.
Which really only shows that this kind of argument is truly a dodge. OTOH, very few people know what police training generally entails. I suspect most people think cop school is mostly done on the range.
 
Be prepared somehow to counter the arguments that will be raised on the above point. They will undoubtedly drag out the old crap about a woman being more likely to be killed be her own gun...blah, blah, blah.
If only, 1 letter to the editor per topic per person every 90 days so it has to be wrapped up as best as possible in this letter. With any luck someone else local will be kind

I also emailed Mr. LaCaze to thank him for being the voice of reason at the meeting, his reply
The paper didn't get all of what I said (cut off here since I didn't ask his permission to quote his remarks)
 
Sigh...where's that DEA agent that shot himself in the foot when you need a dose of reality?

One has to stifle the intellectual leap many of these stuffed shirts take when they associate training with competence. It's a falsely invoked sense of safety to think all "trained" folks all the time will have the ability to protect you at all times. It's not fair to the folks in blue to think that way. We all need to look out for ourselves first.
 
Clinton County is full of drunks...
so maybe they are afraid someone will do something stupid.

heck if i know. I would like conceal carry in my state, but I dont see that happening anytime soon.
It would give me an excuse to buy a handgun I can actually use for self defense.

anyway, i know how a lot of the people think here anyway. I live right near Clinton County.... I go there to get ski...
People don't dislike guns, they just think people will get out of hand. I have heard the argument so many times....

the agreement goes:
country taverns and firearms do not mix
 
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