Concealed carry in southern Illinois county voted down

[thegoodfight]

ha, I can't wait to move from this god forsaken state. Grad school, then I'm out!

 

[Jeff White]

Which really only shows that this kind of argument is truly a dodge. OTOH, very few people know what police training generally entails. I suspect most people think cop school is mostly done on the range.

I don't think that any state requires the 40 hours of firearms training that is mandatory for Illinois peace officers for a CCW permit.

Personally, as much as I am for training, I'm against any kind of mandatory training as it can be used to deny someone effective means of self defense.

Soybomb,
Great letter, did you sen did to the Sentinel?

One of the problems I've encountered in this area is awareness. Many people think that if they want one, they can get a permit in Illinois. I've had people look at me like I was from another planet when I told them they couldn't. I had one guy insist that a judge could issue a permit along with a protective order. People tend to get their knowledge of these issues from TV. Many people I've run into here think they have to register their guns.

Even though we're a rural area and virtually everyone owns guns and hunts, there isn't much of a gun culture around here. there is some Cowboy Action Shooting, but not much IPSC or IDPA.

There isn't much violent crime. Murders are rare, even the Gangster Disciples in Centralia and Mt Vernon usually only manage to wound each other when it comes to gun play. Most of the violence is bar fights, scumbag on scumbag fights and domestic violence. There is plenty of that, but people just don't feel the need to carry a gun to feel safe. CCW is going to be a harder sell here then it will be around the urban areas.

Jeff

 

[Soybomb]

Yup, letter sent, hopefully it will make thurs paper.

Even though we're a rural area and virtually everyone owns guns and hunts, there isn't much of a gun culture around here. there is some Cowboy Action Shooting, but not much IPSC or IDPA.

Thats the truth, it seems like alot of the gun owners are the couple times a year break out the shotgun kind. I think most people would be surprised to see what a rural area we're in and how hard it can be to find an area to shoot. I grew up going to get my hair cut at a gun shop/barber shop at least until I moved away for college. After college I came back and went in to buy a gun and was asked what I needed a gun for. Finding ipsc or idpa is just a dream. I think the area accepts guns but is inclined to be more geared toward hunters and sportsmen than anything else.

people just don't feel the need to carry a gun to feel safe. CCW is going to be a harder sell here then it will be around the urban areas.

Exactly, while the area isn't anti gun, it isn't really purist 2nd amendment either. Even with all the evidence on the side of concealed carry being safe and reasonable, people are going to look at the suggestion of it as trying to change the status quo to something that they still fear is unsafe for no good reason. Thats a tough sell if they don't believe there is a need for it.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

I don't think that any state requires the 40 hours of firearms training that is mandatory for Illinois peace officers for a CCW permit.

It isn't the hours, it's what is being taught. And the hours are a dodge. A lot of states require "40 hours", but then this includes two or three relays so that immediately cuts the hours in half or to a third. It also includes dryfire and lecture so actual trigger time is minimal. Let's be honest. All the "40 hours" is, is to get the officers "qualified" which isn't a real test of how a firearm will be used in a defensive situation. In fact, it isn't even a test of proficiency, just of competency.

 

[ShunZu]

I'd bet you that Salt Lake City is much more dangerous then Clinton County, IL. What do you want to bet?

I'll bet that East St. Louis IL is more dangerous than Salt Lake City.

 

[Jeff White]

I'll bet that East St. Louis IL is more dangerous than Salt Lake City.

How is that relevant? The issue here is that the Clinton County board voted down the advisory referendum, not the St Clair County board. East St Louis and Clinton County might as well be on different planets considering how different they are.

Jeff

 

[Onmilo]

Why carry a gun? Some criminal is just gonna come along, hit you on the head and steal your gun.
Better to just have the crook hit you on the head and steal your wallet.

The fine medical services in this fine state will have you up and drooling in no time,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[frogomatic]

I lived in washington county for abot ten years, and then in clinton county for about 5. I see some things never change...this is exactly the kind of BS that caused me to move over the river.

 

[ShunZu]

How is that relevant?

I was just trying to find some humor in the cities' comparison. In this area (E. St. Louis / Belleville / Fairview Heights), you're certainly correct that we might as well be on different planets, and a CCW discussion would be MOST welcome in St. Clair county but I doubt it'll ever happen in MY lifetime. I also agree with you that there is not much perception by folks living in Clinton County that violent street crime is much of a threat to their well-being. But shift west less than an hour's drive and it's like a whole different world.

 

[Intune]

Board Trustee Robert Fix stated that, as a police officer, he was not 100 percent certain in regard to his feelings about the proposed legislation. Trustee Jim Sullivan seconded Fix's position by information the board that his former occupation as a police officer also caused him to have mixed feelings.

Feelings... Nothing more than feelings... Whoa, whoa, whoa, FEELINGS... :banghead:
"Feels" to me like they are denying the citizens a chance to vote because they "feel" that they might lose. That's my "feeling."

 

[hotpig]

Off topic just a tad.

We have a Greene County Democratic fund raiser dinner here Saturday night. My wife is in the Central Committee so I have to go along.

I heard her on the phone last night getting a speaker for the dinner. The speaker wants to warn of us a dangerous plan by the Republicans to put C/C on the ballot.

He said this was a desperate act by the Republicans to buy votes. If it was to pass we would not be safe in our homes or in the public.

My County was one of the first five to pass the resolution condemning IL anti gun laws. The County Board has one Democrat and the rest are Republicans.

I guess I will have to just sit there and keep my mouth shut. I know my wife will be giving me the evil eye all the time we are there.

 

[lbmii]

What is the deal with Illinois anyway? Why can't the people of Illinois get into control of their state?

Real looking glass world of logic that simply dumbfounds me.

 

[Jeff White]

What is the deal with Illinois anyway? Why can't the people of Illinois get into control of their state?

What was the deal with MO? Why couldn't you get CCW by referendum? If it was all that popular it would have passed in a landslide. Yet the referendum failed and you were forced to go another route. How many years did you fight for it.

It has been a long hard fight for CCW in every state. You might as well face it, it's not an issue the general public cares about or even thinks about. People outside of the gun culture probably don't even think about CCW and if they do they probably think about what they see on TV dramas.

Illinois is just at the state that Missouri was 15 years ago. You fought a battle to educate the public, and you still lost the referendum. We're fighting that same battle now.

Carrying a gun is not cultural in America anymore. It hasn't been for 90 years or longer.

You should think back to the fight for CCW in Missouri. It wasn't a cakewalk and it certainly never had widespread public approval. But now there is something wrong with Illinois because we're fighting the same battle you fought? :banghead:

Jeff

 

[hotpig]

What is the deal with Illinois anyway? Why can't the people of Illinois get into control of their state?

The majority of the population of this state is crowded into the Chicagoland area. Gun control has worked so well there, they will never vote for C/C. Any attempts by the rest of the state to pass C/C is futile.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

The majority of the population of this state is crowded into the Chicagoland area.

Tyranny by majority. Just like Boston controls all of Massachusetts and Manhattan controls all of New York State.