Concealed Carry lowers Gun Deaths. MSNBC (of all agencies) Reports.

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"In the 1980s and '90s, as the concealed-carry movement gained steam, Americans were killed by others with guns at the rate of about 5.66 per 100,000 population. In this decade, the rate has fallen to just over 4.07 per 100,000, a 28 percent drop. The decline follows a fivefold increase in the number of "shall-issue" and unrestricted concealed-carry states from 1986 to 2006."

Here's the link.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34714389/ns/us_news-life//


MODS: Please delete if this has already been posted. Didn't see it.
 
AND, if we look at statistics, the majority of gun, and other, crime is committed by repeat offenders. The role of the government should be to get these people off the streets and keep them off, not worrying about the 85% of the rest of us who don't commit crimes.
 
Good to hear that common sense is also being borne out by the numbers. Also refreshing to see that kind of news coming from MSNBC. I'm typically a hater of right wing Fox News, but I've had no love for the left wing MSNBC either.
 
The news media is citing all kinds of reasons for the decrease in the overall crime rate.

My liberal local newspaper recently ran an article that said the decline is due to the population of potential criminals getting older. They also posited that it's due to the economy, people walking around with less money in their pockets and unemployed people being at home during the daytime to thwart burglaries.

I'm still waiting for them to mention another major factor that THR members are already aware of: the BG now knows his prospective victim is apt to be armed and to fight back.
 
They also posited that it's due to the economy, people walking around with less money in their pockets and unemployed people being at home during the daytime to thwart burglaries.
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That is only for the recent drop in crime. Not a 15 year trend.


Also, the media can make up any reason they want. Even if CCW isn't the actual cause of the lower crime rate, it certainly proves that increased CCW doesn't raise crime rates like Brady and Company would like people to believe. In all honesty, there probably are many factors that led to a lower crime rate, CCW being one of many. But obviously more licensees didn't raise the rate. They would argue back though that if there was no CCW, the crime rate would be even lower, which is a terrible argument.
 
Lakeshore said:
The news media is citing all kinds of reasons for the decrease in the overall crime rate.

My liberal local newspaper recently ran an article that said the decline is due to the population of potential criminals getting older. They also posited that it's due to the economy, people walking around with less money in their pockets and unemployed people being at home during the daytime to thwart burglaries.

I'm still waiting for them to mention another major factor that THR members are already aware of: the BG now knows his prospective victim is apt to be armed and to fight back.
Click to expand...
Our local paper claims it is because the economy has crashed. Of course they printed nothing to support this contention. Mainly since crime always gets worse during a poor economy is probably the main reason they ran no figures.
 
Preaching to the choir. But good to hear nonetheless.

AND, if we look at statistics, the majority of gun, and other, crime is committed by repeat offenders. The role of the government should be to get these people off the streets and keep them off, not worrying about the 85% of the rest of us who don't commit crimes.
Click to expand...

Its not even 85%... far less than 1% of the guns in America are actually used in a crime. There are over 300,000,000 guns in the country at any given point in time, and only 16,000 gun murders in an average year. That means 1 out of 18,750 guns out there are used in a homicide. Compare that to the 2,500,000 times guns are used lawfully to save lives every year, and you couldn't make "gun control" look any worse if you tried.
 
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How do I copy this story

and save it for future reference? Thanks for the link BTW. Good article.
 
Its not even 85%... far less than 1% of the guns in America are actually used in a crime. There are over 300,000,000 guns in the country at any given point in time, and only 16,000 gun murders in an average year. That means 1 out of 18,750 guns out there are used in a homicide. Compare that to the 2,500,000 times guns are used lawfully to save lives every year, and you couldn't make "gun control" look any worse if you tried.
Click to expand...

It's even less than that. According to the FBI (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_08.html) there was 14,180 homocides in 2008 and 9,484 of those were with a firearm. Then you have to take double murders and such into account. Of course, many firearms are used in armed robberies and such, so the number of guns used in crime is higher than just the number of homocides that year. Still, I'd say the less than 1% number holds up.

By the way, some select murder weapons of 2008:

Rifles 375
Shotguns 444
Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.) 861
Blunt Objects 614
Knives (or other cutting instruments) 1,897

As you can see, more people were beaten to death using no weapon at all than were murdered with a rifle of any type (bolt, lever, pump, semi, scary evil black, anything). More people were murdered with a blunt object than with a rifle of any type. Just over 5 times as many people were stabbed or slashed to death than by being shot with a rifle of any type.

By trying quoting these numbers from the FBI to some poeple (the types that hang out at the Huffington Post, for example). Some just can't be convinced, not even by hard numbers from the freaking FBI.
 
"In the 1980s and '90s, as the concealed-carry movement gained steam, Americans were killed by others with guns at the rate of about 5.66 per 100,000 population. In this decade, the rate has fallen to just over 4.07 per 100,000, a 28 percent drop. The decline follows a fivefold increase in the number of "shall-issue" and unrestricted concealed-carry states from 1986 to 2006."
Click to expand...

OH NOES! :D
 
Adaptation refers to a longer term process whereby the offender population as a whole discovers new crime vulnerabilities after preventive measures have been in place for a while. Paul Ekblom, Ken Pease, and other researchers often use the analogy of an arms race between preventers and offenders when discussing this process. So, in time, we can expect many crimes that have been reduced by preventive measures to reappear as criminals discover new ways to commit them. Adaptation may occur as the original offenders slowly discover new methods, or it may occur as new offenders take advantage of changing opportunities.
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Does this change in criminal behavior indicate that we are in for an increase in crimes of violence/gun deaths as the criminal population becomes more attuned to a higher percentage of potentially armed victims or is it even germane?
 
I contributed to the poll thats there too... currently"
81.5%
Very safe: If a crime is committed or a threat of violence made, they’ve got the means to respond.

65,354 votes
15.3%
In danger: These people could be trigger-happy yahoos or stumblebums whose weapon might go off by accident.

12,296 votes
3.1%
Not sure: How would we know? Wouldn’t it depend on the state laws involved and circumstances?
2,519 votes
 
According to the VPC (Violence Policy Center). There have been 151 violent crimes committed by CWP holders since May 2007 (they started collecting in 2009). Using the number of CWP holders (6 million), that works out to about .0025%. So much for blood in the street...
 
According to the VPC (Violence Policy Center). There have been 151 violent crimes committed by CWP holders since May 2007
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I read the vignettes of the first four - two of those could have been self defense from the descriptions. Could it be that as many as half of the 142 could have been justified actions! If so the VPC has a severe credibility problem-not a news item to anyone I suspect.
 
Something else to add to my original post. During that same period that VPC (I keep mentioning them because they were mentioned in the article) was collecting data, 270 people were struck by lighting (2007-2009). That was 90 per year. There are more instances of people BEING STRUCK BY LIGHTNING THAN PEOPLE COMMITTING VIOLENT CRIMES WHO HAVE A CWP.
 
Some where in Heaven; Cooper, Skelton and Keith are looking down with big smiles on their faces.

Mas when he sees this will sit down and have a cold one and smile.
 
According to the VPC (Violence Policy Center). There have been 151 violent crimes committed by CWP holders since May 2007
Click to expand...

Do they actually break down how many of those crimes were gun related, or, are they just lumping all violent crimes together?
 
Well, the point they're trying to make is that CCP holders can't be trusted. Hence, it doesn't matter if the homicide was with a firearm or not. However (quoting what I just posted on Huffington Post in response to Josh Sugermann's latest article):

Ok, so according to the VPC, 151 CCP holders have been charged (not convicted, charged). For the purpose of this math exercise we'll accept their number, for now. That's over an almost 3 year period: May 2007 to the present. It's currently the end of March, so that makes 151 in 35 months.

From the FBI: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_08.html

Number of homicides by year:
2006 15,087
2007 14,916
2008 14,180

So (15087 + 14916 + 14180)/3 = 14,727.67 average homicides per year.

Now take that # and divide by 12, so 14,727.67/12 = 1,227.31 homicides per month. Now we can take that number and multiply by 35 months (the length of time the VPC is using) and we get 1,227.31 * 35 = 42,955.69 homicides. Note I could have just added all 3 years from the FBI, but then I'd have a number for 36 months, but I need a number for 35 months since that's the VPC's time frame.

So, 151 out of 42,955.69 is 0.00352 (murders committed by CCP holders). The 2010 census numbers aren't out yet, but according to Wikipedia the over 20 number of Americans is around 224,000,000. Sadly, they don't seem to have an over 21 number, the age needed for a CCP. But if we figure 6,000,000 CCP holders out of, say, 220,000,000 we get 0.027.

Hmmm, 0.027 is a bit bigger number than 0.00352. Without an exact over 21 number from the 2010 census we have a slightly less than scientific number with the 0.027, but it's still pretty close and still a lot bigger than 0.00352.

So, it looks like a CCP holder is less likely to commit a homicide than a non holder. You might want to pad your 151 in almost 3 years number Josh, looks like you're hurting your case.
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