VPC stats show gun states have higher gun deaths.

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The statistics may show that states with guns have more gun deaths. However, that is not what matters. What matters is how the number had been affected by gun control. For instance, if a state with terrible gun crime allows CCW, which reduced gun crime slightly, and it still has terrible gun crime, then CCW is not the problem.

Another factor to look at is total murder rate and how gun laws affect it
 
In More Guns Less Crime John Lott states that the other side often slants the statistic to suit their purpose.

Could it be because thieves, rapists, murderers, etc. are more likely to be shot in a "gun" state anyway?

VPC Legislative Director Kristen Rand states, “More guns means more gun death and injury. Fewer guns means less gun death and injury. It’s a simple equation
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I call BS. What is the difference between "gun" deaths and "normal" deaths anyway? Because I think it is time common sense legislation against heart disease, the #1 killer of people in this country, is passed into law. [sarcasm]
 
Like JImbothfeveth said.

Also...

Say a guy breaks into a house with a baseball bat at 3AM and beats a family of four to death.

Zero "gun deaths". Four dead innocents. Murderer lives to kill again. VPC counts this as "good", with no gun deaths.

Say the same guy breaks into a house and the homeowner kills him with a load of buckshot.

One "gun death". No dead innocent people. Murderer won't be murdering any more. VPC counts this as "bad", with one gun death.

"Gun death" means nothing, by itself.
 
ArmedBear:
Also...

Say a guy breaks into a house with a baseball bat at 3AM and beats a family of four to death.

Zero "gun deaths". Four dead innocents. Murderer lives to kill again. VPC counts this as "good", with no gun deaths.

Say the same guy breaks into a house and the homeowner kills him with a load of buckshot.

One "gun death". No dead innocent people. Murderer won't be murdering any more. VPC counts this as "bad", with one gun death.

"Gun death" means nothing, by itself.
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Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!!
These stats include any person killed with a gun, including those shot by police, armed citizens in justifiable self-defence shootings, suicides, and gang on gang violence. Plus they do not show the overall murder rate per state, just those people killed by a firearm.
As has been stated also, the more tools you have in an area (guns) the more they are going to be used for neferious purposes as apposed to having to use another type of tool.
 
These stats include any person killed with a gun, including those shot by police, armed citizens in justifiable self-defence shootings, suicides, and gang on gang violence. Plus they do not show the overall murder rate per state, just those people killed by a firearm.
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That's pretty much it. No relation at all to "good" or "bad" use of a gun, just whether or not a gun was present at a death.

For instance, if you look at suicides you'll see that in states with 'easier' gun laws the gun suicide rate is higher, but the OVERALL suicide rate remains the same. So, if guns are not available, people find other means to kill themselves. So, guns are often the tool of choice for suicide, but not the CAUSE. That's where the dishonesty starts.

Useless information. But, when your entire argument has no evidence in your favor you have to take what you can get.

VPC and Brady have no real facts on their side, and never will.
 
Side bar in NYT

today. Falls involving a dog or cat caused 5x as many emergency room visits as accidental gunshots.
 
I was trying to distinguish an accidental gun death (where, but for the gun, the death would not have happened)
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Hmm, maybe - maybe not. Sometimes the people involved have such a polluted gene pool that their brain cells are not numerous enough to avoid stupid decisions which can lead to tragic results. Whether they cause their own death or the death of others, their carelessness can and does cause fatalities in autos, poisonings, drownings, and other accidents. The human body, unfortunately, is susceptible to many forms of expiration.

(It's a shame we just can't classify the death of the careless as a "gene pool filtration process". That would help to clarify the gun death statistics.)

"The school of experience is a hard teacher, but fools will learn in no other
 
Tomatoes used to be thought of as deadly. The fcats bear this out, just look att he statistics. Almost every person who ate tomatoes between 1809 and 1909 is now dead.
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Interesting side-note: Tomatoes have a high acid content. Pewter plates used by the rich contained lead. The acid would leech the lead out of the plates and cause lead poisoning. Thus people thought tomatoes were poisonous.
 
I bet the suicide rate is what vastly skews these numbers, if they are in fact genuine.
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Suicide also has a very high rate of method replacement. That is, if you cannot get a gun to blow your head off, you walk out to the bridge and take a leap instead. So, including suicide statistics in "gun deaths" is doubly disengenuous.

Mike
 
Suicide also has a very high rate of method replacement. That is, if you cannot get a gun to blow your head off, you walk out to the bridge and take a leap instead. So, including suicide statistics in "gun deaths" is doubly disengenuous.
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Absolutely. This particular one was studied intently during the launch of the Brady Law which originally had a waiting period.

Gun suicides dropped dramatically for the short time that there was a waiting period.

However, the OVERALL suicide rate continued the steady INCREASE that it's seen since the 1960's.

When the gun wasn't available, people simply found other tools.

So, including any gun suicide statistics is bogus from the start, since those people have proven they are going to kill themselves no matter what.

To give an honest view you have to remove suicides, remove cops shooting bad guys, remove private citizens shooting bad guys, remove hunting/shooting accidents, and leave only the criminal use of guns. Can't define "children killed by a gun" to include 19 year old carjackers shot by cops etc.

Problem is when they do that their argument is gone.
 
I could not find Florida on the listing, but at first glance you know the report is BS. There are many other things that influence high crime and gun violence and those things are not taken into account in the report.
 
Just because a gun was used to kill some one it is not necessarily a bad thing.:D

Note that this report does not make a distinction between good guys killed and bad guys killed.

Of course "gun deaths" will be higher in states with more guns; more law abiding citizens fight crime by SHOOTING BACK.

Some people are alive just because it's illegal to kill them.:mad:

Also note the use of the term "civilian." Are they admitting we live in a "POLICE STATE". I was under the impression I was a "CITIZEN", having the same rights as every one else to defend my life, not a "civilian" subject to a military authority.


Douglas

Appleseed Project: Where marksmanship meets history and the heritage begins.
Revolutionary War Veterans Association http://www.appleseedinfo.org/
Paying Tribute To April 19, 1775 Through Awareness, Learning & Marksmanship.
 
This report tells us more about the minset of the people behind the report (ignoring just uses of firearms, ignoring non-firearm deaths, etc) than about gun violence in America.
 
Who pays for these studies? It seems that the cost of this nonsense could have gone to more worth while things like firearm safety classes. I mean if groups like this really wanted people to be safe with and around guns wouldn't that be more logical than some study with botched and cherry picked statistics. I lived in California and I tell you what I feel a lot safer in a state like Texas than I ever did there, even with its sensible gun laws.
 
I see no mention of Vermont, Montana, and other very notable "gun-friendly" states, where gun ownership per capita is incredibly high, yet violence is very low.

Hey, did you guys know that knife injuries are most likely to occur in restaurant kitchens? (Chef boo-boos.) Maybe we should call for stricter registration on restaurant supplies.
 
Here is my parallel version of the report:

Since I got my third dog a year and a half ago, the neighborhood children are 150% more likely to step in dog crap in my yard. Vote YES on the dog crap ban...do it for the children.
 
I'm thinking the statistics were hand picked to fit the outcome.
How do gun deaths in Chicago or Detroit compare to gun friendly cities like Prescott, AZ. or Bozeman, MT.? Hmmmmm?
 
Louisiana: (Pop 4,410,796)=882 Gun Deaths
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I'll add to as why Louisiana has a high gun death rate.

Louisiana has a very large gun ownership level and has a very large hunting population here. Accidents do happen.

Despite having a much lower unemployment rate compared to the national average, we have nearly 1 out of 5 (17%) people live either under or near poverty level. The higher the poverty level, the higher the crime.

We have New Orleans.
 
A couple of things I would suggest:

First, access to trauma care may play a role. If you get shot in rural Alabama, Mississippi, or Louisiana, you are probably looking at a delay of many hours before you can get to a place with a trauma center or at least a surgeon that can treat you. A wound that might be minor if it occurred on the doorsteps of a major trauma center might be lethal if treatment is delayed for 6 hours.

Second, the number of gun deaths is not as important as who is getting shot. In a state that allows people to own guns and defend themselves, I would expect the death rate for criminals to be higher than in states where people must be helpless victims. If bad guys are getting killed, that is a good thing.

Third, if guns were completely removed from the planet, I suspect the death rate from knives, swords, and clubs would skyrocket.

Fourth, the CDC and the public health system in general is not an unbiased source of information.
 
Here is my parallel version of the report:
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Excellent idea!

Since I started buying guns no members of my family have died and my father in law beat his cancer.

Guns save lives AND cure cancer.
 
TexasRifleman,

Nice!

When I went through my divorce, I sold several of my guns. So...buying more guns would have kept me married longer.
 
When I went through my divorce, I sold several of my guns. So...buying more guns would have kept me married longer.
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But you are probably happier now that you're divorced, so guns cure depression.

We should have thought of this years ago, Brady Bunch has been doing it forever!
 
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