Concealed Carry on Campus

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Halwg

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I'm a major proponent of concealed carry permits. I've had my concealed firearms permit in WV for many years, and renew it every 5 years. I want to be able to carry a firearm when I feel the need and think it's appropriate. I took the required class and range qualification, I'm a law abiding citizen, and I feel it's appropriate for me to be able to carry.

That being said, I think it's a bad idea to allow students, most of who are aged 18 - 21, to carry handguns on campus. While I know many of them are responsible young adults, I know what kinds of stupid things I did while in college and under the influence of tap-a-keg-a-day! Not a good idea to mix the two. Plus, securing the firearm in on or off campus housing becomes a volatile issue!

Now I do think that having people armed on campus would help deter some of these senseless shootings, and defend students and staff if a shooting was taking place. To that end I think allowing certain members of the faculty and staff, who are properly trained and qualified, to carry concealed weapons. Just like having airline pilots armed in the cockpit, this can be a definite deterrent to a senseless shooting.

But allowing the students to have firearms, I just don't think they are ready!!
 
University of Utah lets students 18+ to keep firearms in their dorm rooms, and allows 21+ students to carry if licensed by the state. Zero problems since 2001, says the police chief.
 
But allowing the students to have firearms, I just don't think they are ready
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How many people fighting over in Iraq are the same age range as students, Allot of those people are also students. We can trust this country's youth with firearms and empower them with the ablity to use thier reasoning to selectively target and kill others as long as thier in some foreign country, but when they are home we no longer trust them enough to posses weapons for self defense.

Why should we continue to shelter our youth into thier adulthood. Lets keep our youth sheltered until they are 22 now. 18 just wasn't good enough. Lets continue to raise a generation of people that have absolutly no interaction with firearms besides what they see on TV. We can also perpetuate the idea that gun are evil by telling/teaching our youth that guns are so bad we have to use our authority as educators to keep everyone away from them.

College is not grade school, its an adult environment, comprised of adults. Students should be treated as such.

How many rapes happen at or around campus? (Im assuming alot) Who are we to tell our young ladies they are not allowed to have the tools required to defend themselfs. Who are we to tell our sons that they must remain defenseless while thier girlfriends are victimized.

How many people have been killed or injuried as a result of university shootings. Who are we to tell our countries youth, you don't have the right to adaquity defend yourselfs or your friends.

How many 18-21 year olds (college type people) get drunk and party off campus. Oh my God we don't restrict thier ablity to own/carry/be around firearms based on thier age and party habits. We need to stop them befor they completely kill each other off. We should restrict thier rights because of our ignorance and fear, and then appoint certain resposible trained adults to protect them.

When seconds count, your physics teacher is at home sleeping and the student aid working the front desk isn't resposible enough.

and btw- you have an elitist aditude. I'm a responsible gun owner, and im (was) a college student. But i know college students, they aren't like me, im the only one responsible enough to cary. So lets just flat out ban them on campus.

end rant
 
As I gun owning college student I would like to speak for my constituents.

You apparently were an idiot in college and are still an idiot now. This looks like a trolling attempt to me. "I just don't think" is not a reason to deny adults their constitutional rights, at least not in America. Lets see some evidence, and as jibraun said, Utah has been a test case showing just how baseless your ignorant fears of gun toting drunk college students are.
 
There is a screening process for a reason. It is the law and as such won't fit everyone perfectly, but needs to be followed. Anyone who takes and passes the required coarse, and CAN legally carry a firearm, should be allowed to carry that firearm wherever and whenever they go. Again, within the laws of the STATE which issues the permit (and legal recoprocity between the states). Laws arent' perfect, but they CAN be changed in time. I live in Kansas where the governor at one time promised concealed carry would NEVER pass. Well, guess what? After a statewide letter writing campaign and public education on the facts, the governors veto was overturned. Overwhelmingly. We now have the legal right to carry. If you don't agree with a law, whether you're for or against it, write your government representatives and state your opinion. Get your friends to do the same. Until then, obey the laws, whatever they are. That includes people of any certain age being able to or not to carry a weapon.
My opinion.
Sarge
 
As long as the age of ccw is 21 I will never understand the logic, or lack of it, that tells me I am qualified to carry a weapon everywhere but my college campus. There is no magical wall at my school like there is at disneyworld, and there is crime all over campus. My campus is basically my whole town. How does that make it magically different than the rest of the world. I know what it is, the school presidents and legislators are afraid we'll mutany after all the bs they pass down.
 
@ingram
Calling a forum member idiot or yelling 'troll!' just because they disagree with you is impolite and violates the code on this forum. You owe Halwg an appology.

I disagree with Halwg's conclusion also, but there are reasons why potentially dangerous activities have age restrictions - drinking, driving, voting, carrying guns, running for public office are all examples.

You would agree with me that it is idiocy to advocate a 3-year old should be allowed to CCW. Halwg believes 18 year olds should be included in that group. Now, we are disagreeing where to draw that line (school regs and state laws, mind).

No, the 2nd A does not include an age limit, and I agree that it is inconsistent at best to prohibit vote-eligible teenagers from CCW, but that does not give me the right to call someone an idiot for disagreeing with me.
 
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sounds like the problem the OP has is with younger people carrying. There is nothing special about a college campus. Nobody is having a tap-a-keg day inside a lecture hall. So if you feel 18 or 21 is too young for a ccw, say so. Try and change the law if you feel that way. But I will be there opposing you. Try using some logic in your arguments though, if you're not challenging me I get bored.
 
I owe nothing to someone who wants to deny the ability for law abiding TWENTY ONE year olds (If you think 18 year olds are the ones with permits wanting to carry on campus you need to do a little research on age restrictions) to exercise their rights. What he said is ignorant, elitist, and backed by no evidence besides his own idiotic transgressions in college (self admitted, and totally anecdotal).

And when someone comes and posts this crap after being here for 2 days and 4 posts, troll is my immediate assumption. I've been here long enough to see the pattern.
 
If they're ready in the eyes of the law to carry at Wal-Mart, in the car, at a gas station, in the park, etc...how does being at a school all of a sudden make them not ready?

No one is saying that w should start issuing guns to all 18 year old students. But if a student has already gone through the CCW process in their state, why should being at a school mean they can't be trusted?
 
There is a background check and training process associated with a carry permit, not to mention fees ($300 and a 90 day wait where I'm at) if they pass that, what else is needed? State legislatures set the requirements, if you meet them, that's all there is to it. The applicant has been deemed responsible enough to carry, personal misgivings of third parties notwithstanding.

The type of person who applies and gets a carry permit does not strike me as the type to take his pistol along to a bar and get wasted, regardless of their age.
 
To the OP:

In Texas, legalized concealed carry on campus would not authorize 18-21 year olds to pack in the classroom. Except for the instance of active duty or honorably discharged military, you have to be 21 to even get a CHL. Also, the law prevents me, a 59 year old professor, from carrying on campus. Now, why would the state of Texas consider me as trustworthy off campus but dangerous on campus? That business about 18-21 year olds is a red herring from the "no proletarian peasant can be trusted with guns" crowd. Please don't fall for it.

By the way, I have one student who is 18 and better qualified for a CHL than many of my faculty collegues, so don't assume that all 18-year olds are too immature for CHL. Besides, we trust them with Driver's licenses which puts them in control of a one-ton projectile. What is the difference between that and CHL?
 
Halwg,

Just last month you were telling us how you got your first shotgun at the ripe old age of 13. It was a 16 ga. H&R, iirc.

That sounds a little young for a shotgun. You could have killed somebody!

I can't discuss this openly, as I have pushed the CofC limits a little lately. But I know what I see.

Anyone old enough to help us choose the next POTUS is old enough to defend themself against a threat. You wanna do some good? You wanna seem genuine? Advocate for a change in the legal driving age. If you think that college kids should not carry, you must certainly agree that they can't be trusted with a far more dangerous tool (car).
 
I am a college student. I am 40 years old. I have a CWP, and I have had one for nearly 20 years. Your proposal would disarm me. Why?
 
I agree with divemedic. I am 30 years old, law abiding, and if you believe in statistics there are a lot more "non-traditional" students around.

Why do you want to disarm me?
 
[hawg] I know what kinds of stupid things I did while in college and under the influence of tap-a-keg-a-day! Not a good idea to mix the two.[/hawg]

Just because you did the keg-a-day dance does not mean that everyone does. While I agree regarding firearms/booze there are already laws on the books that regulate this.

There are some kids out there who have not matured enough however I think the same thing about some in the higher age brackets as well.
 
I am currently in college and am 20 years old and plan on getting my CC permit on my 21st birthday. I don't drink, but I guess I should be lumped with the idiots who can't stop because it's "the college experience"? You DO NOT know me and cannot say how responsible or irresponsible I am.

Spare me from your idiocy.
 
I'm a college student who just hit 21. It makes no sense to let people like myself carry in movie theaters, and, in some cases, bars, but not at a university. Why is someone carrying so much more dangerous if they cross the street to a college campus?
 
Not all college students are 18-21. I'm 25, for example.

Further, 18-20 wouldnt be allowed to carry anyway, as students would be bound by the state CHL age requirements... so you'd only have 21+ college students carrying.
 
Isn't it pretty un-American to propose punishing millions of other people because of your poor choices when you were in college?

Oh, and yeah, 29, college student. Nice to meet you. :)
 
The fact is that allowing CCW on campus would likely mean that one out of every 500 students (it's one out of every 300 on average in the general population, probably less for 21+ college students) would avail themselves of the privilege. On a campus of 20,000, there'd likely be 10-15 armed students at any given time actually on campus. It would likely do very little to nothing to prevent a massacre, but would certainly wouldn't lead to one.

I think public universities (and those are really the only ones that are at issue, private ones can make whatever rules they want) could make special rules, including a "one-strike, you're out" rule for any and all slip-ups. In my state, you cannot have any alcohol in your blood and carry - none. In fact, you can't be in an establishment where alcohol is served. The same should hold true on any campus. And if you're made, well, that, too, should warrant loss of the privilege. It's called "concealed" for a reason, and if you can't manage that, you shouldn't carry.

But so long as strict rules are in place, there's just no evidence that CCW on campus would be dangerous. In fact, CCW holders tend to be über-safe and serious citizens. I doubt that the very tiny majority of students who would carry on campus would be any different.

I will say this: if a CCW holder, especially a student, did go commit a massacre on campus, gun rights would suffer enormously, much more so than if a CCW holder committed a crime anywhere else. The chances of that are very unlikely, as CCW holders are five times less likely than the general population to commit violent crimes, but it is something to keep in mind.
 
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