Concealed speed loader?

[hinton03]

I was reading an interesting thread where the experiment was to carry a large frame revolver concealed for 30 days and determine the best methods and techniques.

I noticed that all the folks providing input were carrying their speed loaders (HKS, strip, moon clip, etc.) on their strong side.

Why is everyone carrying their speed loaders on the strong side? Do most shooters move the gun to your left hand when loading with a speed loader?

It seems that this is wasted motion and time. Why not maintain the pistol in the right hand and load with the left hand?

 

[rcmodel]

Because most folks can't hit their azz fast with their left hand, let alone the holes in the cylinder with a speed-loader.

And you can't control the revolver cylinder with it in your right hand.
It want's to flop around during speed loads.

See this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srM2qghDFuI

And this:
http://jeffersonian.therealgunguys.com/revrel.html

Note: The World Record holder does it with the gun in his left hand!

rcmodel

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Why is everyone carrying their speed loaders on the strong side? Do most shooters move the gun to your left hand when loading with a speed loader?

The proper manual of arms for using a speed loader (for a right-handed shooter) is:

1. Shift your grip. Wrap your left hand around the gun so the fingertips press on the right side of the cylinder.

2. Activate the cylinder latch with the right hand as the left fingertips press the cylinder completely open.

3. Point the gun straight up with the left hand. The fingers should be through the frame window at this time.

4. Press the ejector rod with the left thumb, so the cases fall down. (Ejecting cases with the muzzle pointing down is a good way to have a case slip sideways and fall back into the chamber below the ejector star -- and that puts your gun out of action.)

5. While this is going on, reach for the speed loader with the right hand.

6. With the left hand, fingers still holding the cylinder full open, rotate the gun downward and load with the speed loader.

7. Close the cylinder with the left thumb while getting a firing grip with the right hand.

8. Resume shooting.

(It helps to read this with your empty revolver in hand, and go through the motions to see just how fast this method is.)

 

[Geezer59]

4. Press the ejector rod with the left thumb, so the cases fall down.

This is especially appropriate for medium/large frame revolvers, ones where the brass ejects easily. But sometimes with small frame snubbies, particularly the lightweight ones, it's better to whack the end of the ejection rod with the heel of your right hand, instead of a left hand finger/thumb. The too-short ejector occasionally needs an extra impetus to clear the cartridges from the cylinder.

 

[hinton03]

I found the attached excerpt at policeone.com.

"Support Hand Reload:

I admit there is a certain logic to strong-hand reloading, but many revolver shooters, especially those who compete with revolvers, have gotten used to loading their revolvers with their support hand. The reason for this is the same as for a pistol: The gun stays in the shooting hand, eliminating transfer time and making it ready to shoot much faster.

If you think about it, it does make sense. If we can train officers to reload with their support hand when using a pistol, then there is no reason that it cannot be done when using a revolver.

To load using your support hand, open the cylinder with the thumb or a finger on your shooting hand and rotate the cylinder open with your support hand. Use your trigger finger, which should be off the trigger anyway, to hold the cylinder open. Use your support hand to grip the speed loader as described above and drop it into place. Then use your support hand to rotate the cylinder into the gun so you can continue firing."

I first read about this method in a gun rag; it was the topic of discussion because it was being taught at a snubbie training seminar--I can't find that article now. Anyway, I practiced it for a few days and it did speed up my loading (not that fast to begin with).

I like it because you are nolt required to transfer the pistol from your shooting hand, saving some time and also the risk of dropping the revolver in the transfer.

 

[rcmodel]

Do whatever works for you.

Just be aware it is not the fastest or most positive way to do it, which I thought was the object of the question in the first post.

rcmodel

 

[Big Bill]

RC - I'm going to do it the way Jerry does it in the first video.

 

[hinton03]

I would agree that it isn't the fastest since Jerry Miculik uses the strong hand reload, but I would have to disagree with it being the most positive method.

By definition, in this instance, positive means controlled and changing the gun from one hand to the other is definitely less controlled than maintaining the strong hand on the firearm.

If you spent as much time practicing the weak hand reload as Jerry Miculik does the strong I think you would find that the difference in time would be fractions of a second.

Here is a YouTube example of the weak hand reload; I think it is clear in this video that the gun is under more positive control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leAvwpy7hnw

 

[9mmepiphany]

when i took my first job in LE they were issuing wheelguns, so i have quite a bit of experience using a speedloader. i too did experiments to determine the fastest and most controlled way to reload. permit me to share some of my experience.

1. while a strong hand reload looks less secure...because you are transfering to gun between hands...it isn't. the gun is always in one hand before the other hand releases
2. the weak hand reload takes fewer movements, but is more awkward/less natural to perform. a) with the strong hand reload the speedloader is gripped with the bullets in-line with the wrist/forearm; b) with the weak hand reload the speedloader is gripped with a broken wrist...there isn't room, behind the cylinder, for a straight insertion
3. a strong hand reload allows indexing by feel, in the dark...we used to practice reloading with the lights off so we could do it during night quals

the only time a weak hand reload is faster is if you are using speed strips

 

[sidheshooter]

I'm with the "strong hand reloads" guys, above.

When TSHTF, the only thing that matters (IMHO, of course, take it with a grain) in revolver reloading is A) Taking cover, B) positively clearing brass, C) keeping a massive locked grip on the piece of metal that most ensures your survival (which is now the cylinder, nobody gives a rip if the frame of the empty gun flaps around) and D) getting those skinny little missiles poked into their skinny little silos reliably.

I personally vote for delatching the cylinder with the RH thumb as the LH pushes the cylinder out; pointing the business end skyward (gun still held in RH) while the LH smacks the dickens out of the ejector rod, then immediately grabs the cylinder, cupping it and hanging on for dear life, with the rod rebounding back up through whatever fingers it ends up through (in between the index and middle, or middle and ring, ideally) while the strong hand (RH) indexes/rattles the new rounds into place, spins the (HKS) knob–and promptly lets go–which will send the loader flying off into space as the RH re-acquires a firing/fighting grip and the LH thumb shuts the cylinder. The LH can then slide down and support grip; or let go to fend, gain footing, or whatever.

This may not sound fast, but it’s steady and reliable, and it can be eye-opening when someone practiced up keeps up with less dedicated Auto shooters this way–one can be back on target and pressing the trigger before the loader has even finished pinballing between your inner arms, let alone hit the ground. This reload also works standing, sitting, kneeling, crouching or moving (the idea of, say, trying to recharge my smith with my left hand while scooting around a car body to avoid someone trying to hit me with a board or something gives me the willies); and is about the only thing I’ve personally tried that can “sort of” work by feel prone (say, when a high curb is all you have for cover), so long as you don’t mind scratches on the underside of the end of your barrel. My opinion, anyway, FWIW–I’m just a guy though, and certainly no pro operator.

 

[hinton03]

Very good discussion and information. Thanks all for the input and advice.

 

[Daizee]

If you are going to do a reload with the gun in your stong hand, you *cannot* use HKS speedloaders, or any others that may require rotating of the device to unlatch the cartridges. The cylinder will just spin.

-Daizee

 

[hinton03]

You hold the cylinder with your right index finger through the frame.

 

[9mmepiphany]

You hold the cylinder with your right index finger through the frame.

yeah, that's secue enough to give me peace of mind.

actually it's one of the reasons i switched over to the Safariland speedloaders. releasing the rounds only requires that you continue to push the rounds into the cylinder. when you feel the release, you just let go of the loader and push the cylinder closed.

i actually attended an "officer survivial course that pitted a wheelgunner (SW M-19) against a semiauto (Beretta 92). the COF require a draw, 2 shots on each of 3 target, a reload and 2 more shots on each target. they went through 5 head to head shoot-offs before there was a clear winner (this was before the days when electronic timers were common). the Beretta guy finally dropped a round

 

[sidheshooter]

the Beretta guy finally dropped a round

There ya go. That's what happens when you get used to one of those "spray and pray" service jobbies instead of a good 'ol revolver...

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I didn't read all the posts so sorry if I repeat. I hold the revolver in my left hand while reloading with my right. Once the cylinders are reloaded you can close with the same left hand while re-gripping with the right and be ready to fire quickly.

 

[David E]

The "cylinder" is the round piece that has the "chambers" bored into it.

Proper nomenclature avoids confusion.

.

 

[FoMoGo]

I decided that strong hand reload was for me without any outside information.
It just seemed natural for me.
I am left hand stupid... it is good for very few things.
Altho I work on weak hand shooting when I am at the range.


Jim

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The "cylinder" is the round piece that has the "chambers" bored into it.

Proper nomenclature avoids confusion.

David E,
Smile face or not was that really necessary? How did it add to this conversation? Even though you are correct it just seems a little childish to correct me on something that small without adding to the thread in any other way.

 

[armoredman]

We somehow managed to get away from a question I'd like to see the answers from this crowd - how to conceal speedloaders...

 

[David E]

You hold the cylinder with your right index finger through the frame.

Just how long ARE your fingers?

For me to be able to do that, I have to shift the gun in my strong hand. This, of course, negates the whole reason I'm keeping the gun in my strong hand to begin with.

At least, for me.

.

 

[David E]

David E,
Smile face or not was that really necessary? How did it add to this conversation? Even though you are correct it just seems a little childish to correct me on something that small without adding to the thread in any other way.

YES, it was necessary. It wasn't a typo, it was the wrong term. Therefore, it was misinformation. This can confuse some readers of this thread. You don't want to confuse people by using the wrong terms, do you?

It's like calling an extractor an ejector. Adjusting one won't fix the problem caused by the other, now, will it?

Nothing personal, but again, proper nomenclature avoids confusion.

.

 

[jad0110]

1. while a strong hand reload looks less secure...because you are transfering to gun between hands...it isn't. the gun is always in one hand before the other hand releases
2. the weak hand reload takes fewer movements, but is more awkward/less natural to perform. a) with the strong hand reload the speedloader is gripped with the bullets in-line with the wrist/forearm; b) with the weak hand reload the speedloader is gripped with a broken wrist...there isn't room, behind the cylinder, for a straight insertion
3. a strong hand reload allows indexing by feel, in the dark...we used to practice reloading with the lights off so we could do it during night quals

My thoughts as well. As FoMoGo put it, I am also left hand stupid. Leaving the gun in my right (shooting/strong) hand and reloading with my left feels awkward and totally unnatural.

 

[FoMoGo]

I carry speedloaders in my right front jacket pocket and in my inside pocket.


Jim