Full moons or speed loader?

[Robert B]

I have been using full moon clips for my 686PC, but bought an HKS speed loader over the weekend. Couldn't find a leather carrier for the moon clip, but found one for my speed loader. Moon clips were first used in WWII I think, and have become popular recently. I like the option of using clips, but the speed loader seems more practical. What do you guys prefer? Pros and cons?

 

[MrBorland]

What do you guys prefer?

Speedloaders (push-release type) for long & skinny revolver rounds.

Moons for short & fat semi-auto rounds.

 

[Robert B]

If I go with the speed loader, how much of a concern is the failure where the ejector star ends up with a round under it? I think moons prevent this.

 

[Glock Doctor]

No if's, no and's, no but's! Moon clips are the fastest and most fumble-free way to load a revolver. There are holders for them. Here's a couple:

http://www.amazon.com/TEK-LOK-Post-Belt-Rack-Clips/dp/B005KNI7V6

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/28...teel-silver-package-of-2?cm_vc=ProductFinding

If you want leather, a custom-maker like Matt Del Fatti made mine for me. (Matt does beautiful work; but he can be a little expensive; and there's usually a waiting list for his products.)

 

[9mmepiphany]

If you are trying to load .357 Mag rounds there are two things to consider:

1. For the highly practiced, speedloaders are faster as there is less tendency for the bullets to bow inward

2. For the less practiced, the speed is about the same, because you won't really have the skill to take full advantage of the moonclips.

This all changes when loading .45ACP or 9mm rounds with moonclips; but you'd still need to practice a lot to take full advantage

 

[Crayfish]

+1 on what MrBorland said.

 

[tomrkba]

http://www.amazon.com/TEK-LOK-Post-B.../dp/B005KNI7V6

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/284...ProductFinding

If you want leather, a custom-maker like Matt Del Fatti made mine for me. (Matt does beautiful work; but he can be a little expensive; and there's usually a waiting list for his products.)

Unfortunately, both those holders print badly.

I ended up creating my own from kydex. I built one that held two eight round moon clips IWB in the center. This is not difficult to construct. It held them firmly and didn't print at all. The moon clips didn't fall out even when doing somersaults. The only downside is that the gun has to be carried OWB because carrying IWB made the pants too tight at the waist.

These should give you some ideas on how to build your own rather than using inadequate competition gear for defensive use.

 

[rcmodel]

how much of a concern is the failure where the ejector star ends up with a round under it? I think moons prevent this

No concern at all.

There is no way an empty case can get under the ejector star if you point the muzzle up and then eject the cases on the ground straight down.

That also solves the problem of unburned powder getting under the ejector and binding it up when closed.

rc

 

[tomrkba]

This simple holder protects the bullet tips and prevents the clip from being bent in the pocket. It is a simple loop of 0.08" kydex with a width (at the front) that is 1/8" more than the length of the cartridge. It is tensioned such that it can be dropped from waist height and the loaded moonclip won't fall out. You just push it through the loop into the cylinder and let it fall away.

They are convenient, but print badly in pants and bounce around for inconsistent presentation.

 

[tomrkba]

Here's a single holder for a six round HKS speed loader. It's quite a bit smaller than the eight round double holder.

 

[tomrkba]

If you want leather, a custom-maker like Matt Del Fatti made mine for me. (Matt does beautiful work; but he can be a little expensive; and there's usually a waiting list for his products.)

I do want leather! What model of Del Fatti are your holders?

Update: The SLC-2 looks like it would be adequate since it's based upon the common "Split Six" design. The other ones shown on the site will print badly.

Del Fatti Accessories page: http://www.delfatti.com/2011 Belts,Accessories.html

 

[barnbwt]

tomrkba,
That dual 327 rig is straight booyahkahshaw! Looks much more practical than the only alternatives I've found which are post-type setups plainly aimed at competition use (look like a coin-dispenser belt ).

The push-feed speedloader "conversion" loops are likewise a brilliantly simple solution, and if suitably refined, could probably work as well if not better than speedloaders while retaining the simplicity and compact size of moon clips. Press a bead or groove into the kydex when folding it to form a 'detent' for the clip ring to securely snap into, and it'd be as secure as a round in a link of ammunition. Flare the opening to align to the edge of the cylinder as it is pressed in. I also wonder if a C-shaped half-moon Kydex clip could hold three ball-nose rounds tensioned such that a thumb swipe through the opening would push them down/out into the chambers of a smaller cylinder, sort of like a stripper clip.

As far as printing, I don't know why moonclips would be something to worry about. I mean, they don't look like a gun, after all, so depending on their placement would not raise suspicion any more than a flashlight (I'd just say my 327 clips are spare SLR camera lenses ). A flashlight probably "prints" as a baton or mace-can, after all.

TCB

 

[Lucky Derby]

To correct the history:
Moon clips were developed during WWI. 1911s could not be produced in great enough numbers to supply the military. S&W & Colt both began producing revolvers (M1917) for the military that would fire the military standard .45ACP round. That way the military didn't have the logistics issues of having two different pistol rounds, one for 1911s and one for the M1917s.
In order to make the auto pistol cartridge work in a revolver the moon clip was developed.
It's only been in the last couple of decades that using them for traditional revolver cartridges, such as .38 Special has become popular.
Personally I prefer a speed loader unless I'm shooting a .45ACP revolver.

 

[rcmodel]

To further fill in the history.

Joseph H. Wesson, of Smith & Wesson, invented and patented the half-moon clip, but at the request of the Army during WWI, allowed Colt to also use the design free of charge in their own version of the M1917 revolver.

More
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7255013&postcount=21

rc

 

[MrBorland]

In order to make the auto pistol cartridge work in a revolver the moon clip was developed.

Joseph H. Wesson, of Smith & Wesson, invented and patented the half-moon clip

And AFAIK, the full moon clip didn't appear until relatively recently - 60s perhaps? As I recall hearing the story, full moons were "invented" by a shooter in his garage who welded two halves together. Voilá. We can likely thank him for the continued popularity of moon-clipped revolvers.

There is no way an empty case can get under the ejector star if you point the muzzle up and then eject the cases on the ground straight down.

Yet, I've seen it happen. One was by a top wheelgunner who chamfered the entire charge hole, including the ejector star. The other was with .45AR brass (really tiny rim). Perhaps their technique was the issue, but reloads are normally more forgiving.

 

[StrawHat]

J. H. Wesson patented the full moon clip in 1916. The Army felt it too fragile and went with the 1/2 moon. The 1/2 moon also fit better into two row boxes and carried well in the web gear of the time.

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US1202343-0.png

(Can't get the picture to print, follow the link.)

And there are 1/3 moon clips available for "tactical" reloading. I have used full moons and speed loaders in competition. With short, fat cartridges, 45 ACP, the moon is the faster of the two. With long slender cartridges, 38 Special, the speed loader is the champ. Carrying either of them concealed is a challenge. I split the full moons over my belt and use a large keeper to hold them in place.

Kevin

 

[earplug]

How you carry them

Speed loaders and moons are bulky.
Bend a full moon clip and it won't work.
I haven't carried my 625 around town, if I did i'd consider the half moon clips that the Army used.
They would lie flatter and be less likely to bend.
I often wonder why police or other agencies didn't adopt full moon revolvers and they stayed with speed loaders.
I'm guessing the bending issue and the bulk of a full moon

 

[Panzerschwein]

I mostly shoot my .357, and I stick to speedloaders. The main reason is my speedloader of choice, Safariland Comp IIs, keep the long skiny .357 cartridges firmly in place. They drop right in the cylinder, and with a push forward pop all right in. No shaking, no fumbling, it's a very CONSISTENT reload, and for me that equals smooth and in the Army they say smooth is fast and that's about the truth of it. I've gotten to where I can reload my revolver with those speedloaders with my eyes closed. I'd feel comfortable carrying the gun on duty I am that confident with them.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I often wonder why police or other agencies didn't adopt full moon revolvers and they stayed with speed loaders.

Mostly because the most common LE revolver was the S&W K-frame...and then for a short period the L-frame.

When LEAs pretty much converted to the semi-auto pistols, full moon clips for these size guns were very rare...as were moon clips for rimmed cartridges in general

 

[StrawHat]

Speed loaders and moons are bulky.
Bend a full moon clip and it won't work.
I haven't carried my 625 around town, if I did i'd consider the half moon clips that the Army used.
They would lie flatter and be less likely to bend.
I often wonder why police or other agencies didn't adopt full moon revolvers and they stayed with speed loaders.
I'm guessing the bending issue and the bulk of a full moon

Full moon clips can easily be carried in a speed loader case when in uniform. It is easy to fit two into one case, one on top of the other. When I carried my 45 ACP revolver, I was able to carry four moon clips in the issued double speed loader case. Off duty and undercover, not so easy. I used to put the moon clips over my belt with three cartridges IWB and three OWB and hold them in place with a big "belt keeper". It worked and during the time I carried that way, none ever bent. I am not sure how much effort it would take to bend one but during the course of duty, arrests, range time and general wear and tear, I never managed to bend any of my moon clips.

The primary reason the moon clips were not adopted was they do not work as well as speed loaders for revolver cartridges and the 45 ACP revolver was neither plentiful nor inexpensive. When I wanted one for duty in the early 80s, I had to build one from a S&W M28-2.

Kevin

 

[redbullitt]

Always been partial to the speed strips myself since they are so much easier to carry with how most people dress.

Nice flat shape, keeps all the rounds together in one place in and out of the pocket. Not as fast a clips or speed loaders, but they are what I always wind up carrying out the door when I have a revolver. Never got particularly comfortable with the typical speed loaders, but I do love moon clips for my 45 ACP revolver.

 

[BobWright]

As to moon clips being used in WW II I can't verify that. As far as I know moon clips did not come into use until maybe the late 'Seventies or early 'Eighties.

Half moon clips were introduced in WW I and remained issue in the Army through about 1958~1959. .45 ACP ammo issued in 1959 came with two pairs of half moon clips per box of fifty rounds.

Bob Wright

 

[jmorris]

1. For the highly practiced, speedloaders are faster as there is less tendency for the bullets to bow inward

2. For the less practiced, the speed is about the same, because you won't really have the skill to take full advantage of the moonclips.

The world record for 6 shots, reload and 6 shots was set with a moonclip revolver.

Just less to do, drop in and close vs. drop in, push or twist then remove/drop loader then close. Also with moon clips all cases are ejected as one too.

IDPA separates moon clip revolvers from speed loader fed ones and the time to make different classes are the same despite having to use more powerfull ammunition in moon clip fed revolvers.

 

[MrBorland]

I recently wrote this on TFL, so I'll just cut & paste:


"Moon clips aren't fast. Speedloaders aren't fast. The shooter, using either moons or speedloaders, is fast (or slow). How fast depends on how much practice they put in.

A master-class moonclipped revolver shooter will reload faster than a master-class speedloader shooter, but a master-class speedloader shooter will reload faster than nearly all other moonclip users. It takes more hours to master a good and efficient speedloader reload, IMO. Master class revolver shooters of either persuasion have many many hours of practice under their belt.

I've heard of moons bending, but never had one bend myself. Carry them in a moonclip holder, like they ought to be (just as speedloaders ought to be carried in a holder), and they won't get "easily bent".

"Sure loading"? It's much easier to catastrophically bobble a speedloader reload. The moonclip insures all rounds come out (and come out together), and a case getting stuck under the ejector is impossible. Speedloaders can also "puke" before getting the new rounds reloaded, and long/skinny speedloader rounds don't just drop in as easily as the short/fat rounds usually used with moons."

 

[9mmepiphany]

The world record for 6 shots, reload and 6 shots was set with a moonclip revolver.

You left out the prior sentence to my post that you quoted, which when you consider that it ended with a colon {:} would have obviously been part of the statement

If you are trying to load .357 Mag rounds there are two things to consider:

Jerry set that record with a 625, not a 627...and the last sentence of that same post addresses this issue specifically