Considering a 1911.

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JImbothefiveth

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Well, I'm planning on getting my first pistol, and am considering the option of a 1911. But before I buy I've got a few questions. How interchangeble are parts on various brands? If I get a conversian kit for a colt, will it work on a springfield? How many calibers can you run through 1 1911 without rebuilding the whole gun?(Maybe with a slide, barrel, magazine, and firing pin.)
Is it possible to shoot, .22 LR, .45 ACP, 460 rowland, and 38 super all out of one? Could same also shoot 38 special wadcutters?(Clark custom makes one that shoots those.)
If I want one that can, is building my own a good Idea? How difficult would that be, as I'm not really TOO familiar with the Inner workings of guns, and have never taken one apart more than field stripping? Any manuals on how to do this? And can I make this a double stack, like the para ordnance ones, if I build it? Thanks!
 
If you are looking to go in that direction, you are going to find that all things are not equal in the 1911's...

The Glock Mdl 21 now that is a different cup of tea.

I'd think if you are really after the various items you mention you might reconsider your choice of weapon...

The 38 Super is not better than the 9mm, so stick with that thought. The conversions and available others, is so much better in the Glock.

Regards,
 
That is true, he did not ask for the answer I gave him...But it is an honest response to a question.

I should have added good luck on your project, if you so desire. The big problem I see with many, is they don't realize how many working parts are in the 1911 that foul things up... The cost is another item, just not drop in parts they have to be form fitted and that is not something you do if not real knowledgeable.

So pardon my response... But it is an honest thought to save some real agony down the road.

Regards,
 
Wow, that was fast! I'm not really too hung up on 38 super, just wondering how many different calibers can be done! I'm open to glock suggestions, but I hear they are not so good in the accuracy department. Just remember, it must be chambered in .22 long rifle or have conversion kits available.(Glocks have the latter.)
 
Just thought of another place to start. If you are really wanting to learn the 1911 platform and its inner workings order a copy of "The Colt .45 Automatic" Volumes 1 and 2 by Jerry Kuhnhausen. Each will run you around 30 bucks or so from most online sellers but they are worth their weight in gold. If you can't learn the 1911 platform from reading those books, you can't learn the platform.

You can purchase .22lr conversion kits for the 1911's. I am not sure how many of the other caliber conversions are available but you could always build dedicated uppers and use the same lower. Chances are that you will not be satisfied with owning one frame and a bunch of slides... you will want whole pistols. So if you are married, prepare for war because you just stumbled upon one of the biggest diseases in the firearms world... Nineteenelevenitis
 
You can do all of that with one 1911 frame. If the gun is built for .45 Super then you can use .45 Super and ACP out of it without changing anything other than possibly the recoil spring. With a barrel change you can use 400 Cor-bon. Change the top end to a .40/10mm breechface and with appropriate barrels you can shoot .40 S&W, .357 Sig, 10mm, 9x25 Dillon, etc. Change the upper to a 9mm/.38 breechface and now you can use 9x19mm, 9x21, .356 TSW, 9x23mm, Super .38, .22 Zipperer, etc (with the appropriate barrels of course). .460 Rowland will require a conversion unit, even though it uses the same breechface as the .45 ACP and family. You'll need appropriate magazines for all of the above as well.

If you don't want to change the entire slide for the different families of cartridges then SV makes a slide that has an interchangeable breechface.

http://www.sviguns.com

Numerous conversion kits out there will let you change the top end out for .22 LR and .17 HMR as well.

Several companies make high capacity frames as well. SV, STI, Para, etc. I don't know of any .22 conversion units that have magazines that will work with the hi-cap frames though.

Unless you live in a state that requires a lengthy registration and approval process for handguns it would be much easier just to buy different guns for each caliber. Getting all of the parts fitted to your frame would get expensive and changing out parts every time you want to use a different caliber would be a pain in the ***.
 
Here's my attempt at answering your question and adding some commentary / thoughts:

1) Most 1911 parts should be interchangeable with the current 1911-A1 style models in the same size. The trick here will be some manufacturers may use different sized cuts for sights or a beavertail, and of course some designed for a 5" government model may not work on a 3" compact.

2) The easiest and most common caliber change is .38 Super to 9MM. This may only require a barrel change, but sometimes new 9MM magazines may run better. If you're thinking about going .45 ACP to 9MM, you'd be better off with 2 guns.

3) At your level (gunsmithing and general familiarity with guns), I don't think building one would be a good idea. I'd suggest getting knowledgeable with automatics in general first, then buying a stock 1911 and learning how to 'tinker' with it before trying to do a ground-up build.

Remember, you need to learn how to crawl before you start running.
 
If you want a 1911 the go to the local range and fire as many as they have before you make any decision.

If this is your first firearm then I'd probably go with a revolver.

If you are stuck on a 1911 pistol then be prepared to spend $700+ for an entry level pistol from any of the better manufacturers. I'd look at a basic Springfield, Kimber, Colt, maybe S&W.

If you wanted to add parts yes concieveably they should be interchangable but they're not always. If you want to save on ammo get the .22LR conversion kits for any of the 1911's and be happy with that for teh time being. you can always have a competent gunsmith install upgrades correctly.
 
The big problem I see with many, is they don't realize how many working parts are in the 1911 that foul things up... The cost is another item, just not drop in parts they have to be form fitted and that is not something you do if not real knowledgeable.

So pardon my response... But it is an honest thought to save some real agony down the road.
Click to expand...
So a build is bad for a begginner then?





Unless you live in a state that requires a lengthy registration and approval process for handguns it would be much easier just to buy different guns for each caliber. Getting all of the parts fitted to your frame would get expensive and changing out parts every time you want to use a different caliber would be a pain in the butt.
Click to expand...
I was thinking it would cost less than buying a seperate gun for each use: .22 for general practice and bullseye. .45 for bullseye, .460 roland or 10mm for hunting.
I would be changing calibers at most 4 times a week.(To .22 for regular practice, maybe change to .45 for a bit more practice, then to a hunting caliber If i go or am worried about animals, then back again.) Heck, the .22 might even be the standard upper!.

If this is your first firearm then I'd probably go with a revolver
Click to expand...
This is not my first firearm, just my first handgun. I'm quite competent with autoloaders and clearing jams, my dedicated range gun is a 10/22.(Jamomatic when fed thunderbolts.)


You can do all of that with one 1911 frame
Click to expand...
Could I do this if I bought a 1911 instead of building one? If so, any reccomendations? I've rock island arms is good for the price, I'm not sure a trust taurus, and then there's colt, springfield, kimber, S&W and les baer(Probably out of my price range.)
 
I keep all of my 1911's box-stock, just like I bought 'em; and oh yes,
they only shoot .45 ACP's~! This includes my 2X Springfield
G.I. models, on up too and including my Les Baer TRS~!
Click to expand...
I didn't mean fire all those without modification! I meant can I preform the same modifications on a 1911 I bought as on one I built?
I really can't afford to feed a .45 acp, Hence the need for a the ability to shoot .22 long rifle, and I don't want to learn on a .45 and get a flinch.
 
JImbothefiveth said:
I really can't afford to feed a .45 acp, Hence the need for a the ability to shoot .22 long rifle, and I don't want to learn on a .45 and get a flinch.
Click to expand...

Why not get a Ruger Mk. II 22/45? Same(ish) ergonomics as a 1911 (grip angle, controls), cheap .22LR ammo.
 
I really can't afford to feed a .45 acp, Hence the need for a the ability to shoot .22 long rifle, and I don't want to learn on a .45 and get a flinch.
Click to expand...

You have asked some good questions and hopefully others will continue to give answers that are better suited for you, at your time frame of shooting.

The 45 is not the one to start with IMHO...You should go with a nice 22 for starters, I like the 22a made by S&W The super conversion kits are just that, not for the serious target shooter. Good luck in your pursuit best to be done as you are doing it, and don't lay down any cash until you feel real good about it..
:)
Regards,
 
I was considering a 22/45, but I thought it might save some $$$ to get a 1911 and convert it(I'll probably get one down the road anyway.) How much does an average caliber conversion cost, anyway? Also, I'm willing to consider a norinco, but it cannot be too recent of an import. I don't want my cash going to the chinese government.
 
Is it possible to shoot, .22 LR, .45 ACP, 460 rowland, and 38 super all out of one?
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Yes. You have to have the appropriate conversion kits, however. For .22 LR, there are several kits on the market. (I have one early Ciener kit and one Colt Service Ace kit.)

The .460 Rowland requires among other things a new barrel (the .460 case is longer than the .45 ACP) and a compensator.

For .38 Super (or 9X19) you need a new slide as well as a new barrel because the head size is different from the .45 ACP.

On the plus side you can shoot .45 Super merely by swapping out the recoil spring (I use a 28-lb Wolff spring which comes with matching firing pin return spring). This puts you pretty close to .460 performance at minimal cost. And you can still shoot full-power .45 ACPs with the same recoil spring.

You can shoot .45 ACP cases necked down to .40 and .357 with a simple barrel switch.

With the proper die (made, I recall by RCBS) you can cut down .308 or .30-06 cases and make a shot round that will cycle the gun.
 
Clark custom makes a 460 rowland conversion kit. If the conversion kit costs more than a complete ruger pistol, I'm probably not going to get the 1911.
Would still like to hear more on the subject, though. Is it possible to buy a 1911 and then buy parts for your own conversion kit? What would this cost?
 
I made a mistake

I wrote:
Clark custom makes a 460 rowland conversion kit. If the conversion kit costs more than a complete ruger pistol, I'm probably not going to get the 1911.
Would still like to hear more on the subject, though. Is it possible to buy a 1911 and then buy parts for your own conversion kit? What would this cost?
Click to expand...
Whoops! I switched subjects without really clarifying!
what I meant to say was:
If the .22 conversion kit costs more than a complete ruger pistol, I'm probably not going to get the 1911.
Would still like to hear more on the subject of 1911s though. Is it possible to buy a 1911 and then buy parts for your own .22 conversion kit? What would it cost to make your own .22 conversion kit?
Click to expand...
Sorry!:eek:

I will also probably get a 1911 later down the road, since it just seems so versatile. Special thanks to post number 18!
 
JImbo,

Welcome to THR!

I think that you want too much out of one pistol. You need to be realistic. Especially since this will be your first handgun, you should buy something NIB with a warranty. I think it is a horrible idea for you to try & build a first handgun since you ave no experience with assembly & fine tuning anything, besides, the parts & gunsmith-specific tools will cost many times more than if you just bought something new. Did I mention warranty? -You can always go yell at the manufacturer if the gun has a problem, but if you screw-up with a hand-built, you have no recourse.

Have you ever fired 10mm? .460 Rowland? Do you pistol hunt now? Do you really need these calibers -especially if you posted that you can't afford a steady diet of .45ACP?

Good thing you shoot a 10/22 -it has endless parts & configurations doesn't it? What have you done to yours? Have you tried to convert the caliber?

If you really want modularity in one pistol, I suggest the Sig P250. You will still need to buy a separate .22lr pistol though.
 
"I was considering a 22/45, but I thought it might save some $$$ to get a 1911 and convert it(I'll probably get one down the road anyway."

That's the way to get lots of shooting without lots of costs or time spent reloading. And get the 1911/.45 too.

Attempting a build and/or conversions at this point in your shooting experiece is simply to big to bite off. Frustration, and costs, would rob you of the fun you should be enjoying. All that may come but it should be years down the road. Neither I or and my J frame wife think the recoil of a .45 is significant.

It IS easier to learn the basics of shooting - breath control, stance, grip, trigger finger position and squeeze, sight picture, recovery, etc. - with a light pistol round but I doubt there is any "learning" improvement with 1911 conversions into middle range calibers. Learning with a decent .22 AND .45 is simple enough! A good used 22/45 is in the range of most quality .22 conversions so there's little real advantage in converting. Perhaps that's why so few conversion kits are sold?

Maybe the "best" newbie "training aid" is a set of ear muffs! That big BANG! at the end of their fingers disrupts more beginners minds than the recoil.
 
Lots of good advice,

Perhaps you should just think about doing this in steps,

* master firing a Semi-Auto .22 LR.
The RUger 22/45 has the same grip angle as a 1911 and
similiar operational controls, but of course the balance is a bit
different. However,it's a starting point, you can learn sight
alignement, trigger management for very low cost ammo wise.

In the meantime, latch on to questions asked about the 1911
and follow threads, learn about the various manufactueres of 1911
latforms, - find out a make with the properties that lend themselves
to conversions, what makes do gunsmiths like to work on, etc.

* Look for a manufactuere that has a good rep. for making the 1911
to a standard spec. and not proprietary uniqueness in features, as well
as a company with good Customer service.

* .22 LR Conversion Kits
Marvel and Chiner(sp?) offer kits,
Advantage Arms does as well,
SOme makers advise use one but not the other,
find out before you buy.
A .22 LR conversion kit consists of
a .22 Abbel
A lighter weight slide and it's inner parts,
a lighter recoil spring
a magazine that fits the larger magazine well
but centers the small .22 LR cartridges for feeding
into the barrel.

SO, someday you may find you've got a 1911 and a
.22 LR conversion kit, and realize if you take on a
conversion project , sending the gun off or doing it yourself
the gun is down until the project is finished by yourself,
or the gunsmith returns your 1911

* so then you buy a second 1911 so you have at least one
operating and available, you might have sold the RUger 22/45
it having served it's purpose but whatever you might lose if anything
should be written off as a learning experience.

If you do want to persue gaining some gunsmithing skills, you'll
invest in the proper tools, etc. but a basic rule is to ALways try to fit
the Cheaper part to the more expensive (frame) part eh?

SOme say a Colt is paying for the name, but when you look at the
materials and methods that it is built, Forged frame and slide and
top quality internals as well as most aftermarket parts needing only a little
fitting it's actually cheaper in the long run. Many say a Cast frame is
just as good as Forged but if you go for a Hot BLue and polish job
the Cast parts may have microscopic boids which are revealed by the
polishing, whereas the Forged takes the polishing much easier in the
process

SOme have said going to a higher recoil spring will allow the 1911 to be
used with heavier cartridges than the .45 ACP. Well, some of the 10MM as well as 460 Roland look like 1911s but the frames and other details have been beefed up and a simple bbarrel swap and you may end up battering the
frame .A heavier recoil spring retards slide rearward movement but the
opposite direction that heavier spring is slamming the slide forward at a higher velocity than is needed to chamber the next round and could beat on the barrel lug, and slide rel./lock pin that takes the force of going to battery.
a heavier recoil spring by 2-4 lbs over the standard 18 lb spring AND a
heavier Main SPring in combination will slow the slide - the main spring escpecially at the last of the slide's rearward travel as the hammer is cocked, then the slide comes forward with the 20-22 lb spring instead of a
heavy 27 lbers. It's a balancing act - that's why the .22 LR conversion
kits have lightweight wluminum slides, it's matched to the power of the
.22 LR cartridge.

Food for thought eh?

Randall
 
Have you ever fired 10mm? .460 Rowland? Do you pistol hunt now? Do you really need these calibers -especially if you posted that you can't afford a steady diet of .45ACP?
Click to expand...

I have not fired them, and was not planning to even convert it until much later, when I am more experianced, could handle such a caliber. By "steady diet" I meant for target practice, which is about 150 rounds a session. For hunting I would not need to feed it a steady diet, that would be way over the tag limit. I would probably not convert it to a lot of the calibers listed, I was sort of seeing what it could do, and if I could get a pistol to cover all bases for less money than buying three or four different ones. I could then add calibers as needed. or wanted (The big boomers for hunting, .45 ACP for my centerfire bullseye(and carry gun), maybe .38 spcl wadcutters or .38 super for other bullseye centerfire.)

Thank you though, for making sure I wasn't planning to get a magnum caliber for my first handgun, when I can't afford to practice much with .45 ACP.

And, also a valid concern, I do wear earmuffs. The noise was actually causing me to close my eye right before I pulled the trigger, so I put on earmuffs and the problem was solved a few weeks later.


Thanks for the info guys, and for letting me know I shouldn't start off with a 1911 and 5 conversion kits, then wait to shoot even the lower recoiling ones for a long time.

Neither I or and my J frame wife think the recoil of a .45 is significant.
Click to expand...

I was planning on getting proficient with a .22 before ever shooting the .45, are you saying that the .45 isn't that much more recoil, or that it isn't so much more when you have experiance?

So, I have some more questions. How much experiance should I have with a 22 pistol before shooting maybe a dozen rounds of centerfire each range session? And how much money would be saved, if any, by buying a 1911, a hunting caliber conversion kit, and a medium centerfire conversion kit over buying a seperate gun for each purpose, considering I could roll my carry gun and bullseye gun in to one?
Sorry if I was too redundant. (I don't think I was, but it's late and I'm pretty tired.)
 
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