Considering a .22 for my emergency bag

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ilbob said:
Headless said:
I second the post above about the AR-7 - I actually got to see one of those this weekend at the range and was impressed with it - accurate enough that the guy who owned it was shooting shotgun shells off of the target frames @ 100 yards.
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My AR7 won't do that at 25 yards. But my Henry lever action will (at least it can shoot well enough to do it).

AR7s seem to be pretty random quality wise.
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Jeez, that's a hell of a difference... :(
 
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A 22 is never wrong! My choices would be a S&W K-22 revolver, 6" bbl and a Marlin 39-A rifle. Both extremely accurate and reliable.
 
It's all in the ammo... There is a large difference between HYPER velocity rounds, standard .22 rounds and SUPER / EXTREME velocity.

The AR 7's I have shot like STANDARD VELOCITY rounds... Try a few. The boxes cost $2.00 for 50. You should be able to find fodder that works well in your gun.
 
The AR 7's I have shot like STANDARD VELOCITY rounds... Try a few. The boxes cost $2.00 for 50. You should be able to find fodder that works well in your gun.
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I have not had a whole lot of trouble finding ammo that shoots reliably in mine, but nothing that shoots 1" or better groups at 100 yards like the other poster was claiming. Thats a damn fine group with a target rifle, much less an AR7. There are very few production 22RF rifles that will shoot 1" groups at 100 yards.
 
Going over the replies so far I would add a piece of advice. I would avoid using a .22 conversion kit for your main gun. Not because they don't work, because it would work just fine from a functional standpoint. However, in order to use it you have to convert your defensive weapon to a .22, at least temporarily. Which means as long as you are hunting you are using a .22 as a defensive weapon.

Never disable your defensive weapon just so you can use .22 ammo. Get a cricket rifle or the ar7 or any of the other good suggestions made so far. Broken down all of them will fit in a book-bag sized pack so there really is no reason to use a less accurate pistol when you could have a long-gun instead.

If you are dead set on using a pistol then I would strongly consider a revolver since they are more reliable and much less finicky about ammo. If you want to be really flexible you can get one with an exchangeable cylinder and have the option of using .22LR, .22short, .22 Mag, all out of the same pistol. For example;
http://www.heritagemfg.com/site/department.cfm?id=187
I've got one of these and love it.

Hope you find something that works well for you.
 
ilbob, I dunno about shooting consistent 1" groups - I don't own the AR-7 in question; all I know is that he knocked 4 shotgun shells off the target frames in the space of somewhere between 6 and 8 shots @ 100yds while i was there... maybe it was extreme luck; dunno...i don't want to make any claims like "that ar-7 shoots 1" groups!" because i don't know if it does :)
 
ilbob, I dunno about shooting consistent 1" groups - I don't own the AR-7 in question; all I know is that he knocked 4 shotgun shells off the target frames in the space of somewhere between 6 and 8 shots @ 100yds while i was there... maybe it was extreme luck; dunno...i don't want to make any claims like "that ar-7 shoots 1" groups!" because i don't know if it does
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If he was able to hit shotgun shell hulls at 100 yards 50% of the time that is pretty close to 1" groups. Like I said, that must be one very unusual AR7 because very few production rifles of any kind (CF or RF) will shoot those kind of groups.
 
Maybe I am lucky. I have a 22/45 Ruger Auto. NO problems, will feed any .22 I put in it, fairly accurately although it does have its favorite ammo. I would not chose this as my primary defense weapon but it does make for great inexpensive practise for my .45.
 
I guess I’m just odd. I don’t see any use for a .22 other than shooting (with no recoil) at paper targets at the range. I would NEVER use a .22 for defense. It’s possible it could be lethal, but that’ not the object. It would more likely just make the perp mad at you. Col. Jeff Cooper once said, “The only reason for ever pointing a gun at a human is the overwhelming need to make him stop what he is doing. If he dies in the process that is regrettable, but irrelevant.” If you want to practice with little (almost none) recoil try a 9mm with ordinary garden variety practice ammo. Then, you would have an alternate (and useful) gun.
 
Some Clarifications

Thank you all so much for your helpful thoughts.

It seems a few people were unclear about my objective for the .22, and to be honest, that is really the question. As one poster pointed out, in a real emergency, people rarely (and for good reason) head out to live "off the land".

Let's start with the objective of THIS bug-out bag. The purpose of this bag is for when I can not even get back to my house to grab my full-on survival bag. This is for when there is a localized emergency, and I have to make the decision to stay or leave, and make it NOW.

Since I am young, healthy, self-sufficient, no dependents, etc. My current plan is that during a localized disaster, I will immediately start making my way to one of three pre-chosen cities in disparate parts of the US where I have friends/family (I have no plans for if I need to leave the US alltogether, which really bothers me...).

This .22's main purpose will be hunting. The size of the bag prohibits bringing rations, so it currently contains a water purifier, a few energy bars, and your standard emergency supplies (first aid kit, thermal blanket, blah blah).

My primary reason for considering the .22 really boils down to the portability of both gun and ammo. I am not a very good hunter, so I may need the extra shots. If I don't have the ability to feed myself, I will have to brave cities along the way, and frankly I do not trust other people in disaster situations.

Thanks to the lucid posts thus far, I have TENTATIVELY concluded a .22 is a good thing to have, but only really useful if in rifle form. So I am currently going to tear apart my Ruger 10/22 and see if I can get it to fit in this bag; maybe will get a slightly elongated bag.

Perhaps I will scrap having a hunting firearm in this bag all together, and instead resign myself to the fact I will need to rely on organized society during a bug-out scenario.

I must admit, committing these thoughts in writing for the first time makes me a bit uneasy, as this is certainly the height of paranoia. Unfortunately, having seen our country's complete inability to deal with even small localized issues, it is obvious we are all on our own.

Thanks again for all your posts. You folks rock.
 
How about just a cheap trunk gun?

You could pickup a Henry AR7 from wally world, a brick of ammo and a bore snake. Keep them in a large ziploc in your trunk then you'll always have a "plinker" when needed.
I took my girlfriend out of town for her mothers funeral a couple years ago. We ended up at her brothers property so the family could go thru pictures, etc. There really wasn't anything for me and a couple of others to do while the family members were busy. When I asked her brother about a target area I could see he said his son sometimes came out to shoot. He said if we had guns we could go ahead and have some fun. All I had was my CCW snub nose and a reload. :banghead:
NOW, I keep a stainless M6 scout, 22/410 and plenty of ammo for "plinking" in my trunk 24/7. Since M6's are hard to find these days I think a AR7, brick of ammo and a bore snake may fit well in anyones trunk.
 
If I were to put together a bag like you've mentioned then I'd probably put in a Ruger Single Six with a .22LR cylinder and a .22Mag cylinder. I'd also include two boxes of .22CB-Long, two boxes of .22LR (maybe hollow point), and two boxes of .22Magnums. Six boxes of .22 with 50 rounds each doesn't take up much room, doesn't weigh much, and will get the job done within the parameters you've mentioned. I might also throw in a 10-pack of .22 shotshells. A 6" barreled Single Six is plenty accurate if you do your part, doesn't look at all like a "survivalist's gun", and isn't very fussy about whatever ammo you feed it.

That's my thoughts on the matter. Do what works for you. But to me, a rifle just has too much size for a little bag, and if you've got to take it apart to get it to fit then it doesn't do you too much good if you need it quickly.

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAPro...ation=Blued Convertible&bct=Yes&type=Revolver
 
For the same size as a .22 pistol like the diminuative Jennings J22 you could pack a Kel-Tec P3-AT in 380 Auto, and they don't weigh much.
 
I think I would look at the Rossi youth guns

Single shot break open with 2 barrels. 22LR and 410 Shotgun.

Last I looked they were $139 at Dicks

Kid
 
I'm pretty new to handguns, but I love my Mark III 22/45. Is it an ideal defense gun? That depends on if you know how to use it. For me, probably not, for my wife it is more than an enough. She is scary good with it, but then again she grew up shooting a Mark II and it's like riding a bicycle to her. With that said, Ayoob recommends pointing a handgun at someones crotch in close situations. Not only for the intimidation factor, but because you can see their hands better. A .22LR would definitely rip through that and if not stop them, at least slow them down.

As for hunting, a .22LR is plenty to make dinner out of a squirrel or rabbit, and I find both of those pretty tasty. Granted I've only done it with a rifle not my handgun.
 
Emergencies

In an emergency, you will be HELPING people, usually people you already know, not shooting people. A .22 on your hip will be plenty. Anyone who demands a response will probably back down from a .22 as soon as they would a .45. I'd get two matched ones and a brick of ammo. You won't be shooting it out with al Queda. You might have to shoot a snake.

Plus, there will be plenty of guns around. Bad folks bring them, the police come bearing gifts, if it gets bad you won't need to have brought your own. There will be plenty laying around.
 
I have a Norinco 1911 that I scored for $300, and a used Cienar kit for $50.

4 mags in .45. 2 are FMJ, 2 are JHP
100rounds of Remington .22

I wont need more than the one magazine compatible with .22, since i can't imagine myself needing to perform a quick reload with the .22 I either hit the critter or i didn't.
Its good with me.
 
If you expect to be doing small-game hunting primarily, a .22 is not a bad choice. A. 22 can also be effective in self-defense. In fact, the .22 has taken plenty of deer over the years. There is a well-respected combat veteran and woodsman who frequents this site named Vern Humphrey and I believe he frequently carries a .22 automatic when alone in the woods.

When weight is at a premium, the .22 automatic pistol is hard to beat. There is a reasonable versatility in ammo, from quiet CB caps, to the 60-grain subsonics from Aguila that really penetrate, to the screamers.

I suspect that in a survival situation your gun will far fall down on your list, after food, shelter, warmth, etc., so I think saving on weight is important. However, it is possible that you might need to to face down attackers, which is why I would recommend an automatic over, say, a Single-Six. Sure, a SU-16 would be better for self-defense, and if you are with a family, that would be my choice, but for a man alone, who can make a much lower profile, and move faster, .22 automatic is not an unreasonable choice.

A longer-barreled Ruger might be just the ticket.

By the way, there are some good sights for discussion of bug-out bags and the like:
neardeathexperiments.com
zombiehunters.org
 
for my BOB,,, i have a 22 barrel and a 410 barrel,,for a thompson contender,,,,

break it down into a small package,, have a rifle for small critters,,and a shotgun too,,,ammo takes up little space,,,, 150 rounds 22,,,,25 rounds 410 shot shells,,,15 rounds 410 slugs

keep the 45 for your side arm,,,i do

my .02

ocharry
 
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