Controversy in the Texas Senate with Student CHL

[esquare]

However, I will state this, I think all college age people who will CHL on campus should first undergo some type of official training and also be disciplined in the dangers of firearms.

Frankly, I think we should have firearms classes in elementary (safety) and middle (shooting) schools. There are so many guns in this country, I think it's completely irresponsible that elementary schools do not provide mandatory firearms safety classes in the curriculum. Plus, it's not like it takes that much time. I would think, one 30 minute session per year would do it...

...but having special rules for chl on campus sort of defeats the purpose of being able to get a permit and carry at all times.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Omg. Firearms training to 5th grade on up?

You are going to recieve total 120% focus from everyone involved and intense interest.

But, I can see about two generations worth of teachers and faculty that will faint, swoon and tremble at the thought of children handling GUNS inside a school classroom.

Suppose we did that.

I hope that we will have a Nation of correctly trained people with guns, legally. But right now I see a few states where this will be a flat NO-GO. Mass being first in line.

 

[Drusagas]

I am a student at a univ. in TX and dearly hope this passes

 

[New To Knives]

I'm not a student, however I do think this is a good thing. Basically the same points as everyone else. If they are eligible to get the Concealed Carry License, what makes them any less responsible when they enter a school campus?

On the subject of gun safety/shooting in elementary/middle school, it really isn't that far fetched, the middle school I attended as a kid used to have a shooting class. .22 long rifles. The program was shut down before I ever got a chance to enter, but there was never an incident involving injury in that class. Wish they would bring that back, but no need considering I will be teaching my kids this long before they get to middle school.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Our Daddies teach children to shoot since guns were made long ago. Schools should do the same.

My problem is with the Thugger who does NOT follow the law and could CARE LESS about safety, in fact would prefer to ensure his or her own safety by eliminating all humans within eye shot that so much as gazes a certain way to the BG.

In the human barrel there is always a bad apple.

THAT is what Im worried about.

 

[4Freedom]

Let me get this straight. You first call out the OP for wanting to treat colleges different than any other place with regards to concealed carry, and then you proceed to single out college-aged students for forced training? This whole idea that college students are somehow different class of people when it comes to concealed carry is ridiculous. Considering you must be 21 in pretty much every state to carry a concealed handgun, it should would be nice if people would treat us like the adults we are.

The OP said he wanted all guns banned for college students. Training never hurts anyone, I advocate training 100%. If the person cannot display any previous proficiency with a firearm, since they are on a campus and one day may be forced to use their gun in a crowded environment, such as a class room against a deranged school shooter, I think some training can make the difference between life and death. I personally think there is lot of irresponsible people out there and guns are dangerous in the wrong hands. So, I don't see anything wrong with school giving a short training course on handguns for students who wish to conceal carry. I myself am fairly new with guns and I am going to be taking some handgun courses. I don't think this applies just to students, but teachers too. This is just my own personal opinion, take it or leave it.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I myself am fairly new with guns and I am going to be taking some handgun courses.

That's good, they can be very valuable.

Problem is, what is being talked about here is some government mandated minimum shooting class.

In Texas, for example, there is already a class required for a concealed permit. A legally blind person could pass the minimum qualifications. I'm not joking, in Wisconsin which has a similar test a legally blind shooter passed the test.

When you talk about a government mandated program you need to understand that it will be developed to be inclusive of wildly varying skill levels.

What do you propose? A 100% passing score in some high end shoot house or simulation? Most police academy graduates couldn't pass 100% of those.

So the reality ends up somewhere in the middle; a training course developed and run by some state agency. You and I both know where that will end up. That will end up with piles of money spent for little benefit.

So then what, would you have the law mandate a week at Gunsite? If so, there will be exemptions added to the law for people who cannot afford to attend Gunsite. Maybe you want your state taxes to pay for it?

You see where this goes anytime you try to legislate things like this?

Look at the DOT and how incredibly complicated the commercial drivers license system is. Yet, we still have truck crashes all the time. Cops still shoot innocent bystanders on occasion even with all their training.

What you are hoping for is some kind of guarantee of 100% safety and you will never get it.

If an armed madman comes through the door I'd rather take my chances in a classroom full of untrained armed law abiding citizens than a room full of unarmed victims.

 

[4Freedom]

TexasRifleman, You have a good point. In a more conservative society where truth, justice and the constitution rules the populace, I think a government mandated gun course would be fine. However, with this government and society, I say just a basic course that anyone could pass should be issued. Sure, a lot of people will not gain anything from it, but many others will gain something from it. It is better than nothing. At least people will have some lecture about gun safety and training in shooting firearms, which is better than nothing. I was not talking about a course that only a Navy Seal could pass.

This kind of reminds me of the conceal carry laws we have in our state. Its legal to carry a gun, but if anyone reports that you have a gun or it becomes noticeable in any way, you will be arrested and charged with a felony. So, in some way or anohter, conceal carry is not really that legal in the state I live anyway. More tricks and manipulation of the government to make us appear like we are free and not.

So, in the current light of things, I just think making everyone go through a basic course, regardless and not forcing them to pass anything. The courses I am taking are not ones you pass, they are just ones to help educate you on the safety issues and proper techniques of shooting firearms. I am doing it for my own good.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Colleges are so schizoid about firearms. The last college that I attended had a firing range although it was technically illegal to carry a firearm onto the campus. A community college that I helped to start actually built a gunsmithing shop and had staffed and planned a gunsmithing program before they realized that their charter banned guns from the campus.

And now for concealed carry

I suspect that professors could learn to accept that their peers may be armed. But lowly students? Armed in class? NEVER!

 

[TexasRifleman]

At least people will have some lecture about gun safety and training in shooting firearms, which is better than nothing. I was not talking about a course that only a Navy Seal could pass.

But Texas CHL holders have to do that already. Why is the current training requirement all of a sudden not sufficient once a person sets foot on campus?

 

[ChemicalArts]

I'm a chem prof at a local community college. Personally, I'm not opposed to people with CHLs carrying legally on campus as long as everyone follows the rules that apply everywhere else.

However, if college Chancellors, Presidents, and campus police have their way, it will never happen. They will seek the same right to exclude firearms from their campuses that businesses have.

 

[4Freedom]

But Texas CHL holders have to do that already. Why is the current training requirement all of a sudden not sufficient once a person sets foot on campus?

Well perhaps they can be given some class in crisis or hostage management. I mean, if someone is going to be shooting a gun in a crowded class room, at least they can have some training on how to shoot the gun. I agree we should not force students to pass a course that will make it so difficult that they cannot carry a gun. Better any gun than no gun, if some madman goes on a rampage on campus. I am a bit ignorant on your training classes. IN the state where I live, we don't have any training classes. We just sign up for the permit and get it. There is a conceal carry class in the neighboring state but I don't know if they teach you on the proper handling of a firearm. An untrained person shooting a firearm can pose a threat in themself. I think a person should at least be able to fire a gun from 5 yards and hit something before they go armed into campus. If people are trained in very basics of firearms, I think they should be able to carry on campus.

But as I said, rules and regulations in this country can turn ugly. Something innocent may turn into communist red tape, prevening us from carrying weapons.

Heres the catch-22.. In my state, if anyone sees you carrying a firearm or thinks you have one, they can call the police and your will be arrested and charged with a felony. So in many ways concealed carry is not legal where I live, regardless of where you are, school or anywhere.

 

[Gamera]

At my school the campus security is a joke. In the time that I've been here, we've had three armed robberies literally right outside the dorm complexes, and a drive by shooting (not involving any students, but it was near campus).

In my freshman year, some girls were held at gunpoint in their dorm room after a thug knocked on their door. Fortunately he just took some stuff and didn't rape them. So is it any wonderment that I want to be able to use my CWP on campus?

I'm a responsible adult. I get good grades, I don't drink, I don't go out and party. The whole idea that I might go on a rampage because the school library didn't have the book I was looking for is just absurd. Sadly, common sense seems to be missing from our "higher learning" establishments...

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

Texans have to hit something from 15 yards, 4Freedom!

how's that!

 

[bdickens]

What makes schools different?

I mean, why not have an extra training requirement for people who are going to be carrying in crowded malls, restaraunts, churches and the like?

 

[Owens]

As a CHL and college educator, I see no problems at all from allowing cc on campus. If anything, the environment just went up a few notches on the safety ladder.

There are enough statistics regarding CHL holders to more than adequately document that they are not the ones to be concerned about. Laws just keep honest people honest, in much the same way locks function. Words on paper don't stop someone bent on causing problems. If they did, there would be no crime today as we know it.

I spend the day, all day, 5 days a week with about 30 or more students. Any of them that could obtain a CHL and carry would be welcome to do so in my mind. Out of the number that I am around, there are only about 4 or 5 that legally qualify on age alone to carry. Small number. I haven't checked campus wide, but I imagine that the percentage doesn't change much. Consequently, there will not be a gun at every desk staring back.

As Governor Perry said (paraphrased): You are already licensed to carry, why shouldn't you be able to do so?

Just my (rather simple) thoughts on this.

And oh yeah...Letters outbound to state representative and senator. Are your's ready to mail?

Owens

 

[esquare]

However, if college Chancellors, Presidents, and campus police have their way, it will never happen. They will seek the same right to exclude firearms from their campuses that businesses have.

I think if SCCC plays their cards right, they won't get their way. Start with state schools first, since they are not protected under the same rules as private owners (after all, we all own the state schools since they are public property). The private schools can ban CCW if they want, but once state schools have it and it's not an issue, SCCC can go after private schools that receive federal funding or research dollars. Also, I bet that once CCW passes on a few inner-city campuses, crime will drop there and it will be hard for the hold-outs to argue that their students shouldn't have the right to self defense.

Wishful thinking maybe.... but one could hope.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

What Chuck doesn't realize is that many have and are carrying College rules be damned. I carried in my backpack all through college.

 

[Yellowfin]

Esquare, the stakes are much higher than that. The real long term benefit of campus carry is that it will squash a major recruiting nest of the anti gun movement. That's the real reason why they fight against it so hard.

 

[bensdad]

Esquare, the stakes are much higher than that. The real long term benefit of campus carry is that it will squash a major recruiting nest of the anti gun movement. That's the real reason why they fight against it so hard.

Now THAT'S a good point!

 

[Double Naught Spy]

What Chuck doesn't realize is that many have and are carrying College rules be damned. I carried in my backpack all through college.

If you did so in Texas, it wasn't just against a college rule, but a 3rd degree felony under PC 46.02.