Conversion cylinder or more spare cap and ball cylinders?

[MCgunner]

I'm waffling on this. I had wanted a conversion cylinder in .45ACP for my 5.5" Remmy. Now, I handload .45ACP on a progressive, shoot lead 200 grain SWCs I cast from a Lee mold. My pistol is a Ruger KP90DC. I'd thought it'd be perfect for the Remmy, but the more I think about it, hell, I already shoot .45 Colt in a Blackhawk AND .38/.357. Why would I want a conversion? I have 3 cylinders for the gun now. My thinkin' is if I eventually picked up 9 cylinders, I'd have one to keep in the gun loaded, 8 x 6 is 48 rounds, almost a box, I'd have to load up and shoot all at once, cleaning the cylinder pin of goo every 18 rounds, of course, a Remmy tradition. See, one of the things I like about cap and ball is NO BRASS to wear out.

Thoughts anyone? I'm on the fence about it. I could save up for a conversion, or I could just buy a spare cylinder once a month or something until I have 9 of 'em, my goal. I could eventually get the conversion cylinder, anyway, but I'm just wondering if I'd even like it. I have lots of cartridge revolvers already, .22LR, .38, .357, .45 Colt.

:banghead:

 

[grter]

You already have the better hardware for cased ammo.

I would consider that capped cylinders can go off if they are dropped on the caps or hit against or by somthing.

Carrying capped cylinders on you has it's own considerations.

 

[whughett]

I have a conversion cylinder, 45C for my ROA. 99% of the time it stays in the gun safe when the ROA goes to the range.(It came with the gun on a swap) I have many hand guns, auto loaders, revolvers, break opens,in 22, 38,357, 45C, 45ACP,9MM 44Mag, 32ACP, 380,25ACP, so conversion cylinders don't hold much interest for me. I do greatly admire the looks of the 1860 Colt and one with a conversion cylinder would be real nice. But like it goes for me , so many guns, so little time and monies and for the price of one I could get another Cap and Ball in something I don't have. Like a pocket Colt.

 

[jaxenro]

I never could understand a conversion Cylinder for a ROA. Seemed like buying one of them funny 1873 percussion revolvers and a conversion cylinder

 

[elhombreconnonombre]

Delete

 

[goon]

Conversion cylinder. It's safer to reload with one and brings the strengths of cartridge ammo.

And you're already stocked with components that would work in it. As you no doubt know already, it takes a long time to wear out pistol brass at moderate pressures.

 

[MCgunner]

I would consider that capped cylinders can go off if they are dropped on the caps or hit against or by somthing.

Carrying capped cylinders on you has it's own considerations.

Well, I wanna find a plastic box that's compartmented, or can be, where I can store the cylinders individually in the box in its own compartment. I can then haul the loaded cylinders out back loaded, in the box, safely, put 'em on the table on my range in the back, and swap out each cylinder from the box, minimize the possibility of dropping ANYthing on a hard surface. Soft dirt out there, not much worry while swapping cylinders.

Anyway, I've put thought to this problem. I know that one COULD just cap it when it's installed in the gun, but I don't consider the risk too bad if I take precautions with storage of the cylinders.

 

[EljaySL]

It's really up to you. I load 45 Colt black powder cartridges for my 1858 with boolits I cast. If I were going to shoot smokeless I'd just shoot something more modern, like my 1917 in .45 ACP. I have no urge to get conversion cylinders for my other cap and ball guns, although I'm a tiny bit tempted to get a 38 Special one for a 1851 just for the novelty of it all (I already cast and load smokeless for 38 Special).

That being said I also have no real urge to have large numbers of cap and ball cylinders around. I'd hate to clean all of them when I get home, and once you get the hang of it loading them at the range isn't so bad as all that.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I bought this EuroArms Remington brand, spanky new in 1975. Then about ten years ago I thought about buying a conversion cylinder for it. The gun had been paid for so long ago that it was like I was just buying the cylinder and the gun was free. The truth is, I have not fired it Cap & Ball since I bought the conversion cylinder. It is just so much easier to drop in cartridges than to mess with loose powder and caps at the range. I never shoot Smokeless in it, I only shoot Black Powder, and I'll let you in on a little secret, I usually shoot 45 Schofields with 200 grain bullets and about 28 grains of powder instead of 45 Colts with 250 grain bullets and about 35 grains of powder. Less punishing to the gun, and less punishing to me.







I liked my conversion Remmie so much that one day I stumbled on this Stainless Uberti at a gun show. Came complete with the conversion cylinder for a very good price. To tell you the truth, I have never even fired the C&B cylinder that came with this gun.



Another little known fact is it is much easier to clean a cartridge cylinder than it is a C&B cylinder. You just run your bore brush straight through the chambers. No nipples to remove, no nooks and crannies that fouling likes to cling to, no nipple threads to worry about. Just pop out the cylinder and clean it with your favorite water based BP solvent. In fact, you can leave a light coating of oil in the chambers because you are not going to be worrying about adulterating loose powder with oil. Just load it up, no need to fire caps to dry out the chambers.

 

[MCgunner]

The remmy gums up the cylinder pin in about 3 cylinder fulls. Wondering if the cylinder pin would stay cleaner with BP and a cartridge cylinder?

 

[goon]

Another question - how many shots do you get through a cylinder before you need to replace the nipples? Would this equal out to be about the same as replacing a hundred brass casings?

But if you really just enjoy shooting percussion revolvers more, taking your time and loading up and having fun with that, then the choice for that is also pretty clear.

 

[EljaySL]

@MCgunner - I have to clean it just as often. The other thing that may not be obvious is when you shoot black powder cartridges the gun gets really hot, and I end up having to let it cool down so I can even handle it. So the rate of fire ends up being the same (I usually do three cylinders worth per 15 minute firing period).

@goon - Lots and lots assuming you're not dry firing. The nipples last a long time if you take care of them. The thing about the brass depends on the caliber - .45 ACP you can just find those laying around. .45 Colt you're probably going to either buy some ammo to start or just buy some starline brass and be done with it. 100 cases are maybe $25. I have a couple of hundred cases just for convenience, plus a bullet mold, plus the dies. But again, he's talking about just doing .45 ACP and has the stuff already.

 

[BSA1]

The reason I lost interest in the Conversion Cylinders is they only use low powered 45 Colt ammo. While I am a reloader I want a gun that will handled a wider range of loads.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I would just buy more percussion cylinders. If it's a Pietta Cabelas sells them for $50. If you use 777 3f it is a lot cleaner than black or pyrodex is and the cylinder pin will not foul. I have a .45 cylinder for one of my 1858's and it's nice, but you are limited to 5 rounds as it does not have safety notches. Plus you are limited to light cowboy loads. You can buy 5 percussion cylinders for as much as a conversion cylinder costs, maybe 6. Six plus one is 7 and 7 times 6 is 42 which is almost 50 and as you know swapping out cylinders is a lot quicker than unloading and reloading ctgs., putting backplate on. Yes, at the end of the day you have more cylinders to clean, but you have more to work with too. Also you can load up one cylinder with shot for those pesky rattlesnakes.

 

[ottsm]

I have a conversion cylinder for my ROA's. I don't use it much because it's a lot of hassle to reload. It's neat to have around but it's kind of like holding a hand grenade. And just think of all the work that goes into reloading; you have to clean the brass, resize & decap, clean each primer pocket (or re-tumble again), depending on the cartridge you may have to check case length and shave some off, weigh-up the charges, and seat the bullet.

If you have a good loading stand you can get pretty fast at loading a Cap&Ball revolver. Of course with the Remington you have a hard time using a snail capper. I can go to the range and shoot all day and never run out of ammo. The snail capper holds 100 caps and I have two of them. You just need powder, caps, bullets and pre-lubed wads.

I use the following setup, one set is my old set (I didn't ever clean it but it still works), I got a new set just to have. The funnel on the charge tube helps a lot. It does require a shooting bench but the range I go to has them. I now have a bunch of felt wads and don't mess with the Crisco anymore. When I come home I take the grips off and dump the entire revolver into hot water. Springs have never shown any signs of corrosion. After washing I use compressed are to blow it dry and then I spray it down real good with WD40 (I use the nozzle to get in all the hard places to reach). It takes about 20-30 minutes to clean, this is the only hard part, and it must be done soon after coming home from the range.

Again, it's fun to have one, just like making paper cartridges it's something else to try, novelty wears off after while though.

 

[45 Dragoon]

BSA1,
What makes you think a factory 45 Colt round is low powered? A 225 gr slug moving 900+ fps at the muz. will get your attention and I don't think anyone considers that to be "low power". Same with a 250 gr at 900 fps. After a couple of boxes of those, you tend to remember you did that the next day. The warnings that come with conversion cyls. say they recommend or to use ammo under 1000 fps. I don't think i've seen any factory lead ammo that is over 1000 fps. I shoot fact. equiv. loads in mine 100% of the time with excellent results. These rounds in an 1860 conversion have a rather stout recoil while in the Dragoons, it's very easy to handle and very satisfying to see the big ol' holes in the paper!!
You don't have to shoot weenie loads in a conversion. Just use factory loads or the equiv. and don't try to make a MAG. out of it!

Eljay,
38's wont be accurate down a .375 tube.

45Dragoon

 

[MCgunner]

I have a couple of hundred cases just for convenience, plus a bullet mold, plus the dies. But again, he's talking about just doing .45 ACP and has the stuff already.

Well, I load .45ACP AND .45 Colt, but the Colt gets loaded on an old Lyman turret where the .45ACP is loaded on a progressive. 15 minutes will knock out a box of .45ACP and that's being slow and careful.

Reason I don't consider .45 Colt is I have a 4 5/8" Ruger Blackhawk in the caliber and I don't think I'd wanna get confused even with my "light loads" for that gun (8.3 grains Unique/255 cast flat nose) and load 'em in the Remmy, a bit much. I'd load BP in colt cases with the colt cylinder. However, my 5.0 grain B'eye/200 SWC standard loads for my Ruger KP90DC would be light enough in the Remmy. I'm kinda swinging back to getting a conversion cylinder. I need to go out in the shop and get an empty .45ACP case and see how much fffg it'll hold. I've got more .45ACP cases because I used to pick 'em up at the range. Now, my range is in my back yard. No more brass or backstop lead supply. Bummer.

I played with loading .45 Colt and 30 grains BP with cornmeal filler topped by a round ball shooting it in my Blackhawk. That was pretty fun and another reason why I don't want a .45 Colt cylinder, be kinda redundant. That Blackhawk is awesome accurate with about anything. It's stainless, so it's easier to clean up. It's kinda pretty with the engraving I had done to it and the Sanbar stag grips, but the BP didn't seem to tarnish anything. I had a stainless ROA for a while, never tarnished, usually cleaned it in the dishwasher. That gun got stolen and I replaced it with a blued ROA, but it's a good shooter.

 

[MCgunner]

The warnings that come with conversion cyls. say they recommend or to use ammo under 1000 fps. I don't think i've seen any factory lead ammo that is over 1000 fps

That's another thing that confuses me. Pressure with a 200 grain bullet at 900 fps (my .45ACP load) is a lot lower than pressure with a 340 grain bullet at 1000 fps (a load I've played with in my Blackhawk). I don't understand the velocity limit thing for these cylinders. My utility .45 Colt load 8.3 grains Unique/255 cast flat nose pushes 950 fps from the 4 5/8" Blackhawk, but I think it might be a little much for the remmy. Too, fired from my 7" .45 Colt TC contender barrel, it's over 1000 fps. Sheesh......

 

[Patocazador]

I saved up and bought a Howell's conversion cylinder for my ROA. I shot about 25 shells through it (no safety notch so 5 is max.) and they didn't hit to the same POA. I haven't shot it since. It's not legal for BP hunting so it's essentially a toy that I grew tired of.
I probably wouldn't sell it just in case more governments like the present one get elected by the idiot voters.

 

[Willie Sutton]

" I have a .45 cylinder for one of my 1858's and it's nice, but you are limited to 5 rounds as it does not have safety notches. Plus you are limited to light cowboy loads."


Wow... two pieces of "well, that's not really so" in one easy to read lump.

You can very safely load six (that's what the intermediate notches are for between the cylinders), and SAAMI factory .45LC loads run just fine in the Remmies. Just don't shoot "Ruger Only" loads and you'll be roses.



"The reason I lost interest in the Conversion Cylinders is they only use low powered 45 Colt ammo. While I am a reloader I want a gun that will handled a wider range of loads"

See above. Stay out of "Ruger Only" loading range and enjoy. Naturally you need a good revolver top start with, and one that's been properly set up (arbor length if it's a Colt-Clone, etc). For really shooting conversion cylinders I've found the 1858 Remmies to be a bit more friendly to the shooter. But loads can be sensible full house "standard" (not "Ruger maximum") loads. You can most certaonly get into what would be very reliable deer cartridge country loads, as well as "knocks 'em down right now" self defense loads without breaking a sweat.


Segue: When I first started reloading with my RL-550 I managed to turn out about 2000 slightly off-spec .45 ACP loads (lead 200 grain SWC's) that will just not feed in my 1911's. They sat in ammo cans for a decade until I scored a used 1858 with a .45 ACP conversion cylinder on Gunbroker. Problem solved....


Willie

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[J-Bar]

Buy another gun.

 

[Willie Sutton]

^^ This

When I go out to shoot my 1860's, I load up several at the house, cap 'em on the firing line, shoot until I run outta revolvers, and retreat to the house to clean up. Note that n most places you can carry a charged but not capped revolver and it's considered to be unloaded. That's even true in California. So load at home and cap on the range.

Works for me!



"I would consider that capped cylinders can go off if they are dropped on the caps or hit against or by somthing. Carrying capped cylinders on you has it's own considerations."

No offense, but only a dummy would do this. If you want to carry extra cylinders, you carry them loaded with powder and ball and cap them after they are on the frame. Charged cylinders without a cap are perfectly safe to carry (as long as you don't smoke). Carrying capped cylinders is.... Darwinian. Even if Clint Eastwood did it!


Willie

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[Driftwood Johnson]

The remmy gums up the cylinder pin in about 3 cylinder fulls. Wondering if the cylinder pin would stay cleaner with BP and a cartridge cylinder?

As previously stated, as far as the gun not binding with Black Powder, the 1858 Remington does not do much better with cartridges loaded with Black Powder than it does with Cap & Ball. As I have stated many times on this and other forums, the shortcoming of the 1858 Remington design is a total lack of a bushing or gas collar at the front of the cylinder. Without a bushing, BP fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap gets deposited directly onto the cylinder pin. After a few shots it starts working its way down between the pin and the cylinder, and that is the main cause of binding with the 1858 design. Later designs included a bushing on the front of the cylinder to deflect fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap away from the pin.

When I load cartridges for Black Powder, I use the Big Lube bullets, which have a very large and deep lube groove. I fill the lube groove with SPG Black Powder bullet lube. That is about the most you can do to keep the 1858 from binding up, use a bullet with lots of BP compatible bullet lube. Even so, I take out the cylinder and wipe it and the pin with a damp cloth after every cylinder full. That really is not a big hardship, I have to take the cylinder out to reload it anyway, so I wipe down the pin and the cylinder face while the cylinder is out of the gun. Then pop in five more cartridges and pop the cylinder back in the gun. It is still a lot faster than loading with Cap & Ball.

Of course you do have to made up your cartridges before hand.

Here is a photo of the components that go into my 45 Colt load. That is the PRS Big Lube 250 grain 45 caliber bullet. You can see how wide the lube groove is.




These are the components for my 44 Russian load. That is the Mav-Dutchman 200 grain 44 caliber Big Lube bullet, before and after lube/sizing. No, you can't shoot it in a 45, but this shot gives an idea of how big the lube groove is.




And don't forget, when it comes time to clean the gun, a cartridge cylinder is much easier and quicker to clean than a C&B cylinder.

 

[whughett]

I never could understand a conversion Cylinder for a ROA. Seemed like buying one of them funny 1873 percussion revolvers and a conversion cylinder

Well I'd not buy one new ,like I said this came with the gun in a trade. I was with the guy when he bought the cylinder,a R&D drop in. New over the counter it cost as much as some
C&B revolvers at Cabelas. For my self don't like the idea of dismounting the cylinder to reload, percussion or brass.

 

[Lightning12]

I have never seen the attraction of the BP conversion cylinders unless you don't have any cartridge revolvers, but I doubt many of us fall into that category. Presumably you got the BP revolver because you wanted to experience shooting a percussion revolver.

If you want a BP looking cartridge revolver, you can always get one of the colt open tops or factory made conversions. You can often find a used one for around 350 bucks. I have one myself, and that's what I would recommend over a conversion cylinder.

Chaz