Need help from knowledgeable colt cap and ball dudes: Taylor’s conversion cylinder stuck

[1KPerDay]

I just received my conversion cylinders from Taylor’s and Company. I tried the Colt army conversion first on my Pietta 44 “Navy” And it fits and functions like it was born there. Next I tried it on one of my Pietta armys and and as soon as I got the barrel on and the hammer down it locked in place.

The bolt is obviously in the notch on the cylinder. Can’t retract the hammer, can’t turn the cylinder. Pulled off the barrel and the cylinder is still stuck. I tried slipping a thin feeler gauge under there to see if I could depress the bolt but to no avail.

wait... just got the cylinder free by pulling the forward portion of the cylinder forward off of the rear cap with the firing pins. That freed up the bolt and hammer so I could remove the rear cap.

So.... I assume the conversion cylinder isn’t going to work on that particular pistol. I don’t want to mess with timing or file on any parts because the pistol is timed perfectly and shoots well with the cap and ball cylinder.

Ideas and tips welcome. Maybe I’ll just have to use it on one pistol.

I’m going to see if my other Army behaves the same.

 

[1KPerDay]

Well the first two chambers cycled “okay” on the other Army though there was obvious interference with the edges of the bolt stop notches. On the third chamber it locked up the hammer and won’t move. I guess I’ll have to shoot it only in the .44 “Navy.” Kinda disappointed truthfully. I guess I should have expected some fitting would be required.

 

[1KPerDay]

The Remington one seems to function okay in both of my Pietta NMAs, with just a bit of extra effort required the last 1/4-1/8” of hammer travel to the rear for some reason. This happens on both Remingtons but at least it appears the conversion cylinder will actually function in both.

Ideas on what might be the issue there are welcome also.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Im not there to handle the gun...but Usually when the hammer isnt able to be pulled back its because the hand is a hair too long. Like when i have installed a new hand the hammer cant be pulled back so that the cylinder cant be cycled...untill i shave down the hand shorter. Maybe your hand is just a little too long for the new cylinder? Its possible but not a guarantee as im not there to actually troubleshoot. But i have ran into the same issue and that is what was wrong. Could be a number of other things though such as something is causing friction or a part to get stuck.

 

[1KPerDay]

Is it possible to fit the hand to the conversion cylinder without ruining its normal function with the OEM cap and ball cylinder? Or do I just have to pick one? It really feels like it will function flawlessly in the .44 navy so maybe I’ll just leave it alone and use that gun exclusively when I want to shoot .45 Colt. I would like to be able to use it for the 1860s also but... I don’t want to compromise their function with cap and ball.

 

[woodnbow]

The bolt may not have reset on the cam. Nipples too long will cause this condition, as will a cap dropping into the hammer channel. If the nose of the hammer is contacting the rear of the conversion cylinder it could act the same way.

 

[windini]

Is it possible to fit the hand to the conversion cylinder without ruining its normal function with the OEM cap and ball cylinder? Or do I just have to pick one? It really feels like it will function flawlessly in the .44 navy so maybe I’ll just leave it alone and use that gun exclusively when I want to shoot .45 Colt. I would like to be able to use it for the 1860s also but... I don’t want to compromise their function with cap and ball.

I'm curious about the answer to this as well. One reason I hesitate to buy a conversion cyclinder is I don't know the aswer to the question "is it a conversion or a convertible?"

The conversion cylinder would be more attractive if the revolver host could easily go back & forth (which I think is the design goal). But perhaps the historical context was a cowpoke with a C&B gun was moving into the New TImes without looking back, and would henceforth use only the newfangled brass cartridges...

 

[1KPerDay]

I'm curious about the answer to this as well. One reason I hesitate to buy a conversion cyclinder is I don't know the aswer to the question "is it a conversion or a convertible?"

The conversion cylinder would be more attractive if the revolver host could easily go back & forth (which I think is the design goal). But perhaps the historical context was a cowpoke with a C&B gun was moving into the New TImes without looking back, and would henceforth use only the newfangled brass cartridges...

Well historically they were basically permanent conversions to cartridge use. There is some evidence that today's "R&D"/Taylor's type Remington conversion has a basis in a historical design, and Mike Beliveau avers such, but research with the more knowledgeable graybeards here have taught me that the vast majority of conversion cylinders used in remingtons were permanently installed, with no facility for going back and forth. The hammer was permanently modified to a "firing pin" shape, and the back plate and loading gate (if there is one present) were installed in such a way that you couldn't go back to cap and ball. However, the Taylor's remington cylinder I have (and which I've seen a lot of info on) apparently will allow swapping back and forth without issue. And at least in ONE of my Colts, the same (though this type of conversion cylinder with an integral back plate is NOT a historically accurate design for the colt open-tops).

 

[arcticap]

You or Taylor's or the TheOutawKid could try to fit a new hand on one of the 1860's to work with the conversion cylinder, and then see how well that will work with the C&B cylinder.
Save the original hand in it's present form so that if the experimental fitting doesn't work out to your satisfaction, then you can always put it back in.

Or just fit a new hand on one of the 1860's to work with the conversion cylinder and swap hands when you want to use it for C&B shooting.

You can even try the same procedure with both of the 1860's if you wanted to see if one will accommodate both cylinders better than the other.
Maybe TheOutlawKid would help to do the fitting for you.

 

[arcticap]

Is it possible to fit the hand to the conversion cylinder without ruining its normal function with the OEM cap and ball cylinder? Or do I just have to pick one? It really feels like it will function flawlessly in the .44 navy so maybe I’ll just leave it alone and use that gun exclusively when I want to shoot .45 Colt. I would like to be able to use it for the 1860s also but... I don’t want to compromise their function with cap and ball.

I found advice that was copied from another forum that has a couple of photos showing how to adjust the conversion cylinder and replacement hand.
But it does mention to start with extra hands. --->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/cylinder-rotation-issue.869346/page-2#post-11523817

The original post is #3. --->>> https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=38630

 

[Shortgrub]

I have a brace of 51's and 60's with conversion cylinders. I have no problem switching from cartridge to cap. I do keep the original cylinders to each pistol. I only shoot 45 Schofield loaded with black.

 

[AntiqueSledMan]

Shortgrub, I think you are very fortunate.

1KPerDay, If you purchased from Taylor's, I believe they will set it up for you.
As far as switching back & forth, I think you might need a different set of Hand & Bolt, maybe even different Hammer.
You have to remember, your going from 6 shot to 5 shot, the timing is completely different.
On a 6-shot the hand indexes the cylinder 60 degrees, on a 5-shot the hand indexes 72 degrees.
The Bolt also has to drop at the right time.

AntiqueSledMan.