Convincing my mom on the Marines

[themontashu]

How long ago did he serve as SS? If was within the last 10 years or so. If you haven't already, go ahead and start picking his brains about fieldcraft. If you break down the job of SS into 10 equal parts, only one part will have anyhting to do with that rifle. The other 9 are full of the field skills and observation techniques required to perform the job. The Marine Corps doesn't have "Snipers" they have "ScoutSnipers" notice which comes first it the title.

-Will

He served 4 tours in nam, 2 as a scout sniper, 1 as force recon, and one as long range recon

 

[William P.]

He served 4 tours in nam, 2 as a scout sniper, 1 as force recon, and one as long range recon

just remember a lot has changed since then even though I'm sure he has very good information.

But it doesn't really matter if you're going to go Officer. No long range death for you my friend.
Good luck.

-Will

 

[bogie]

ROTC is a good way to go.

And yeah, some folks works their butts off _and_ get lucky, and get a darn fine job immediately upon reentry into civilian life, but a lot more are wondering why the responsibility and skills they developed in the service hardly ranks a "would you like fries with that" job. Unless they go into law enforcement or a security field, the average grunt is ill-equipped for the civilian world.

High speed/low drag takes a serious toll on you... Heck, even medium speed, sorta draggy can do it... I've got a friend who recently pulled the pin after 20 years. He did a lot of running, lot of PT, and it came back to haunt him... Hip replacement at age 40ish. Even if you do everything right _and_ luck out (right place/right time...) and do scout sniper duty, you're not going to be doing it for that long. And definitely not 20 years. If you're very good at it, you're going to be training other marines. Yup. You'll be a trainer. But are you good at that? Think about what you want to do, and for how long.

What are you good at? Besides shooting? Because Unca Suga can find enough scout snipers. But if you've got a gift for lanaguages, and can deal with arabic, it's _really_ nice to have someone who you can TRUST doing the translating. There are other branches of the service. Some of them are far more efficient (but not as "glamorous") than Unca Suga's Misguide Children at sending Abdul to meet his virgins...

Oh, and get laid _before_ you go into combat. It really sucks to die a virgin...

 

[bogie]

Oh yeah - how well do you and your folks know your shooting buddy?

shoot with a former scout sniper and have talked to him about it.

There are more than a few folks out there who claim to be stuff that they aren't... Those pesky Navy Seels, for instance...

 

[KriegHund]

I say this because you have a few misspellings, what does that matter to a scout sniper...You gotta be smart to get a head.

So do I on occasion...heck, there was an english teacher who mispelled. Doesnt mean crap, at least not on an interent forum.

 

[depicts]

4 tours in Nam???????????

Montashu, glad to hear your considering ROTC. It will make you a fine officer, and like you said, you'll get to shoot on the shooting team and gain great experience. The extra financial help is great too.

About that "friend" of yours who did 4 tours in Vietnam....I am one of over 1500 Vietnam Combat vets who make up groups at the VA hospital in Providence RI. Of the hundreds of guys I know, not one has done 4 tours to my knowledge. I do know a bunch who did 3. And sometimes when they extended their tour for 6 months, they called it a tour, but if your friend is telling you he did 4 years of combat in Nam, I'd question his veracity.

Just sayin!

Rezin, sorry about your brother. My best friend and cousin was 20 when he died there in Ane Kay province. He should be here with me now. I miss him every day.

Powderhorn, get your son into a PTSD program asap. It can really help, though it isn't easy, and some people may call him a p**sy for trying to get help. My Dad waited thirty years before he said, "you know I'm you're Dad, and I love you, but I think there is something wrong." Don't wait that long. It may be real hard to convince him, but if you can, you'll give him a 30 year head start on me.

 

[William P.]

Oh yeah - how well do you and your folks know your shooting buddy?



There are more than a few folks out there who claim to be stuff that they aren't... Those pesky Navy Seels, for instance...

haha Bogie is right. I usually give people the benefit of the doubt, however I met a guy at a gun store trying to sell me .338 Lapua because thats what Marine Snipers use.
Me: really I thought they used a rifle based off the Remington 700 in .308?
Gunguy: heck no you can't kill anything with that. I was a Marine Sniper and I tell you we use bigger rounds than that. the .308 doesn't have any range
Me: hehe ok buddy. I guess that guy I hit from 630 was a fluke.

 

[themontashu]

Oh yeah - how well do you and your folks know your shooting buddy?



There are more than a few folks out there who claim to be stuff that they aren't... Those pesky Navy Seels, for instance...

He Trains me and my dad

So do I on occasion...heck, there was an english teacher who mispelled. Doesnt mean crap, at least not on an interent forum.

Amen I got a 6 on my SAT2 essay, for thoes of you who don't know it is out of 6

Montashu, glad to hear your considering ROTC. It will make you a fine officer, and like you said, you'll get to shoot on the shooting team and gain great experience. The extra financial help is great too.

About that "friend" of yours who did 4 tours in Vietnam....I am one of over 1500 Vietnam Combat vets who make up groups at the VA hospital in Providence RI. Of the hundreds of guys I know, not one has done 4 tours to my knowledge. I do know a bunch who did 3. And sometimes when they extended their tour for 6 months, they called it a tour, but if your friend is telling you he did 4 years of combat in Nam, I'd question his veracity.

Just sayin!

I should clarify he was 2 months into his 4th when he fell out of a chopper and ended his last one early

 

[William P.]

Just to make sure you understand. If you get a commision as an officer you realize no matter what kind of shot you are, you're chances of being a Marine SS drop to 0.

Not saying don't do it. Lord knows the military needs good officers.

 

[bogie]

Who actually know how to read maps.

 

[themontashu]

Just to make sure you understand. If you get a commision as an officer you realize no matter what kind of shot you are, you're chances of being a Marine SS drop to 0.

Not saying don't do it. Lord knows the military needs good officers.

I know and I am kind of bummed about that, I mean it has been my dream for as long as I can remember, but as far as what is right for me I think a commision would be better for me. Does any one know what kind of special forces options there are for an officer?

 

[Walter]

Oh, and get laid _before_ you go into combat. It really sucks to die a virgin...
_Bogie_________________

That's the reason we all stopped off at Okie on our way "Down South".

Semper Fi! ,

Walter

 

[KriegHund]

Ive heard time and time again that to be a sniper is the hardest way to kill. You see every detail of the person before you kill them. Not some distant shape, or a fatigue, or a bag of gear with a gun...a real human.

And it takes LOTS of patience, and endurance. In other words, your spirit must be as strong as the granite walls of the rocky's.

Im not bellitling you- im the same age as you, and i also want to be a sniper. The sheer dedication recquired is the thing that attracts me most. But i have to wear glasses- with something like that, no way in heck i can be a sniper, no matter what else i can do.

Though im not sure if i want the army or marines. That has yet to evolve. The army has plenty of more rigid subdivisions that just standard infantry (Not to say that the infantry doesnt deserve the greatest of respect)

 

[bogie]

As an officer, if you show promise and leadership skills, you can go to the same schools - in fact, you're expected to. But you're expected to direct the shooters, while hopefully staying alive to direct them successfully. This tends to preclude the concept of crawling out in front of one's lines.

Dead and wounded officers (and soldiers...) instantly turn from combat assets into liabilities. Don't be a liability, and don't let your soldiers become liabilities either.

I think one problem we saw in Vietnam, and that we're starting to see in Iraq, is that too much of our "leadership" in Washington thinks that we're "fighting," and they're trying to make it work according to some sort of rules. Boxers fight. Soldiers kill.

Real world rule #1) There are no rules.

 

[William P.]

I know and I am kind of bummed about that, I mean it has been my dream for as long as I can remember, but as far as what is right for me I think a commision would be better for me. Does any one know what kind of special forces options there are for an officer?

If you want to be SF join the Army.
Be a PT stud
Be really good with a carbine and a pistol
Be able to think fast
Sign up for it

The Marines have no SF. Yes we have units that as of this week fall under SOCOM. DO NOT get these guys confused with SF because they aren't. (well minus Det 1...and joining the Marines with the intent of joining this unit is not prudent)
The closest thing we have is Force Recon and I would stay away from that place for the time being. No I'm not in Force but I know plenty that are and very few of them are happy these days.

-Will

 

[William P.]

But i have to wear glasses- with something like that, no way in heck i can be a sniper, no matter what else i can do.

You are misinformed my young friend. There are waivers for everything.

Do you really think they will care that you wear glasses if you can do everything else above standard?
Not to mention there is laser surgery and extended contacts these days that make that whole corrective lenses issue much smaller than it once was.

You put yourself in the right places at the right times and prove you have what it takes, Uncle Sam will put a bolt gun in your hands and tell you to get to work.

-Will

 

[Powderman]

I know and I am kind of bummed about that, I mean it has been my dream for as long as I can remember, but as far as what is right for me I think a commision would be better for me. Does any one know what kind of special forces options there are for an officer?

Not too sure, but I don't think that there are many.

Look, let's shift gears here.

I remember a friend of mine. I knew him long, long ago, and he knew my mother. Well, long story short--she wanted me to be an accountant, and I HATE desk jobs--especially number crunching just for the sake of it.

When I explained my dilemma to him, he gave me the most valuable, worthwhile advice I have EVER had in my life--bar none!

First, let me make sure this is plain---love and respect your parents, forever. They went through a LOT to get you where you are, no matter how humble that may be. But remember that someday, some way, you HAVE to be your own man. You must. There is no middle ground.

Now, about the advice my friend gave me. It was one--that's right, just ONE--sentence. And, that sentence was this:

"Maybe it's time to stop worrying about what your mother wants--and time to start worrying about what YOU want!"

What I am saying is this: If the job of ScoutSniper is your dream, then move heaven and earth to achieve that dream.

Build a good foundation. Maintain physical fitness, and build strength while you are at it.

Second, learn fieldcraft. Get with the vets, and pick their brains.

Third, learn to shoot. I mean, REALLY shoot.

Learn what makes a rifle work, from the ground up. Study the metallurgy of firearm steel. Know the types of barrels, how they are made, everything that goes into them.

Learn about lock time and follow through. Learn how to track smoothly, first with iron sights and then with a scope.

Find out why your shot group size can differ so much on different days, within different HOURS within the same day.

Learn and know by heart what is meant by "building the bridge" Know the steady hold factors and practice them.

If you don't do so already, learn how to reload and handload--and what the difference is. Learn what the magic is inside those shiny brass cases.

Find out what the long range calibers are--especially 7.62x51 NATO and .308 Winchester. Now, memorize the ballistic tables.

When you actually do shoot, get a chronograph, clock your rounds, work up ballistic tables for those rounds ON YOUR OWN--and then shoot. Shoot, shoot and shoot some more. Don't stop at the easy ranges--if you can, practice your shooting at 500, 600, 700, 800, 900 yards.

Learn how and why the .308 is best at long range shooting with long, sleek heavy boattail bullets, and find out why having your bullet supersonic at the target is a VERY good thing.

Above all-go after your dream. That is NOT saying don't go to college--on the contrary.

You will find that a college education will help you out come promotion time--and it will help you get that job after the Service.

But still--go after your dream.

My dream was put on hold--first by my own choosing, then by taking care of my family. I was 37 years old when I achieved my dream, and was sworn in for the first time as a police officer. Don't wait as long as I did--GO FOR IT!

 

[William P.]

By far the best post so far

Not too sure, but I don't think that there are many.

Look, let's shift gears here.

I remember a friend of mine. I knew him long, long ago, and he knew my mother. Well, long story short--she wanted me to be an accountant, and I HATE desk jobs--especially number crunching just for the sake of it.

When I explained my dilemma to him, he gave me the most valuable, worthwhile advice I have EVER had in my life--bar none!

First, let me make sure this is plain---love and respect your parents, forever. They went through a LOT to get you where you are, no matter how humble that may be. But remember that someday, some way, you HAVE to be your own man. You must. There is no middle ground.

Now, about the advice my friend gave me. It was one--that's right, just ONE--sentence. And, that sentence was this:

"Maybe it's time to stop worrying about what your mother wants--and time to start worrying about what YOU want!"

What I am saying is this: If the job of ScoutSniper is your dream, then move heaven and earth to achieve that dream.

Build a good foundation. Maintain physical fitness, and build strength while you are at it.

Second, learn fieldcraft. Get with the vets, and pick their brains.

Third, learn to shoot. I mean, REALLY shoot.

Learn what makes a rifle work, from the ground up. Study the metallurgy of firearm steel. Know the types of barrels, how they are made, everything that goes into them.

Learn about lock time and follow through. Learn how to track smoothly, first with iron sights and then with a scope.

Find out why your shot group size can differ so much on different days, within different HOURS within the same day.

Learn and know by heart what is meant by "building the bridge" Know the steady hold factors and practice them.

If you don't do so already, learn how to reload and handload--and what the difference is. Learn what the magic is inside those shiny brass cases.

Find out what the long range calibers are--especially 7.62x51 NATO and .308 Winchester. Now, memorize the ballistic tables.

When you actually do shoot, get a chronograph, clock your rounds, work up ballistic tables for those rounds ON YOUR OWN--and then shoot. Shoot, shoot and shoot some more. Don't stop at the easy ranges--if you can, practice your shooting at 500, 600, 700, 800, 900 yards.

Learn how and why the .308 is best at long range shooting with long, sleek heavy boattail bullets, and find out why having your bullet supersonic at the target is a VERY good thing.

Above all-go after your dream. That is NOT saying don't go to college--on the contrary.

You will find that a college education will help you out come promotion time--and it will help you get that job after the Service.

But still--go after your dream.

My dream was put on hold--first by my own choosing, then by taking care of my family. I was 37 years old when I achieved my dream, and was sworn in for the first time as a police officer. Don't wait as long as I did--GO FOR IT!

One thing. It's good to know but handloading isn't that a big a deal for military snipers however it is a very good skill to have.

And to add one, thing. You must learn ballistics. To start you off a little if you are still interested make sure you know the 3 types....internal....external...and terminal...very very important stuff there.

 

[pyrotechnic]

William P.,

You mention that the Force Recon guys aren't too happy these days. Could you explain that, maybe PM me so as not to hijack the thread? My contract is for infantry and I am hoping to be able to qualify for Recon and hopefully get into Force Recon down the road.


Regards,
Maarten

 

[bogie]

And keep in mind that probably the greatest thing that will affect your grouping, assuming a good rifle/round combo and a good rest/technique (rest is almost always better than handheld) is something that you can't even see...

 

[William P.]

William P.,

You mention that the Force Recon guys aren't too happy these days. Could you explain that, maybe PM me so as not to hijack the thread? My contract is for infantry and I am hoping to be able to qualify for Recon and hopefully get into Force Recon down the road.


Regards,
Maarten

PM sent.

remember 99% of what I say is just my opinion so never make any decisions based off that. I've definetly been wrong about things enough times to admit it. Whatever anyone says remember it is your decision in the end.

-Will

 

[Farnham]

You will not convince your Mom to let her sweet baby boy run off to join a gang of killers.

You may, however, convince your Mom to let her sweet baby boy run off to join a gang of clerks.

The "killer to clerk/cook/cabdriver" ratio is the least in the Marine Corps, but still fairly high. You're a smart kid, right? Smart kids don't sign up 0311 (this smart kid signed up 0811, Gun Rock, even better ) and then got convinced 0231 was the MOS I (meaning the Corps) most needed. 0231, Intelligence Specialist.

Images of James Bond, gorgeous Russian girls, dry martinis, and silenced pistols ran through my brain, and I changed up. Special screening got me out of a couple of sessions in the pit and 1 haircut at MCRD, and after that, all the benefits of being a genuine certified Intelligence Specialist sorta disappeared.

I learned order of battle identification, how to call for fire on a ten digit grid (linking me to my 0811 dreams ), small unit tactics, logistics support as it applied to disruption of enemy infrastructure, Microsoft PowerPoint, and UNIX.

Yes, UNIX. An operating system designed by LSD riddled college boys and the friendly folks at Ma Bell. And, yes, PowerPoint. And sendmail, and DNS, and information warfare. In the MARINES! I now make a very good living as a system administrator for the Air Force (I spent five years as a contractor for the Marines after I got out, including 7 months in the desert during the first days of OIF, so this is a BIG upgrade).

I also spent months on ship, traveling all over the western Pacific; Thailand, Australia, Bali, you get the picture. I lived on Okinawa for a year, learned to scuba dive and lost my girlfriend (good trade, all things considered). 50 percent crap, 50 percent great. You will meet people and see things that have never even occurred to most people. You will eat more crappy chow hall food than crappy MRE's, you will probably only have to fire your issue weapon once a year, you will spend more time on field day (look it up) than you will ever spend on weapons cleaning. When you DO get sent to the combat zone, getting shot at blows. It ain't all inspirational war movie band of brothers drivel, but I wouldn't trade the time I spent in for anything.

So, tell your Mom you'll be in intelligence, supply, aircraft maintenance, weather, or bulk fuel...do NOT let her know you put down 03-ANYTHING on the contract. Just, please, for my sake, and your sanity, do not, under any circumstances, ever, ever, ever, put 0231 in your contract.

S/F

Farnham

(13th MEU (SOC), MAG-36 '94-'99 USMC, 1st Marine Expeditionary Force '99-'04 Contractor)

 

[HI express]

Some observations

themontashu,
My nephew is about 32 years old. He is with the 101st Airborne. He got picked to be a designated marksman because he is a PT nut, he is an extremely focussed individual, he is a freak when it comes to learning stuff to the Nth degree, and he is disciplined beyond belief...and he wears glasses.

He is ordering his own parts for his issue weapon.. believe it or not..the M14. He was picked because he of his skills and dedication. He worked after regular hours and on weekends, both running PT on his own and shooting his issue weapon until he has a terrific understanding of ballistics, handling capabilities of his weapon, etc., etc.. Keep in mind, this is not to be a sniper, this is because he has a strong drive to be the best that he can be.. and at times he is a royal pain, a know it all, and too serious for his own good, but that is why his MSgt picked him to reach out and touch people.

To build his stamina, he ran his long runs with a full load of gear as did all of his company. If you're not in shape, start getting in shape now. In basic, he said that's where a lot of guys dropped out. If you get through all the training, you will still need to be in great shape as you are expected to carry all your gear even in combat. I'm not sure if it is the same in the Marines.

They are in the big sandbox now and getting almost nightly RPG attacks on their base. That is the very basic of what he is going through so set your mind and get ready for a once in a lifetime experience.

 

[Balog]

Hi, my name is John. I'm an 0351 (infantry assaultman) who's currently in Iraq. Given the limited time we have on these computers, and the fact that I want to call my wife and get some sleep I'm gonna not read everything that's been said already. Lemme just give you a coupla random things I've noticed.

1. The Corps makes your life worse than any other branch of the service, and the grunts are much worse than pogues. And it's not a good kind of hardship where you're accomplishing something useful by your suffering. It's just stupid BS. I love the Corps, but it's the truth. However, you want the hard life of a scout sniper, so we'll just move on.

2. The SS MOS is hard to get. You might serve as one, but it won't go into your record book until you go through the school. It's pretty luck of the draw whether you can even get into a sniper unit, altho a high rifle qual and PFT help. A deployment or two is also good.

3. Life in the rear for SS's can really, really suck. A friend w/ 2/7 did a sniper indoc. Aside from all the ardous physical activity, he got doused w/ cold water (repeatedly), was made to do full submersion pushups in untreated sewage (Lake Bandini, as we call it), and was deprived of sleep for a couple days. Granted, it won't always be like that, but it often will at first.

4. Despite what the pols want you to think, there is no war in Iraq. It's a massive, heavily armed humanitarian effort. Think New Orleans with more bombs. I hate it. I joined the grunts because of their historic place as shocktroops, charging in at the head of the fight. I want so much to fight, but higher just says "It's not that kind of war anymore." I swear I'm gonna stab the next overpromoted pogue bitch who tells me that in the mother****ing face.

Sorry, I've got a lot of pent up aggression. Anyway, if you really want to see action you might be better off trying out for recon, or even joining the Army w/ an eye towards going Ranger. Wow, that was painful to say.
Even better would be going directly into contract security ie mercenary work. Tough w/out a military background, but not impossible. And that would have the added bonus of paying more than working at Arby's, unlike the military.

 

[Spiggy]

haha Bogie is right. I usually give people the benefit of the doubt, however I met a guy at a gun store trying to sell me .338 Lapua because thats what Marine Snipers use.

Maybe... for the British Royale Marines when they whip out their AI L96's

You put yourself in the right places at the right times and prove you have what it takes, Uncle Sam will put a bolt gun in your hands and tell you to get to work.

As property of the united states, you are entitled to many free things, one of which is health care